Gardaí to stand trial in connection with alleged assault on teenager

Spudmonkey

Johro wrote: »

I don't think the point is whether the guy is a scumbag or not. The point is that there are rules in place which should not be disregarded by people in positions of power. It's dangerous. You might be next.

I haven't 27 convictions to my name. I haven't assaulted a guard. Why should I believe some guard is going to break into my house to assault me. Talk about twisting it to make your point!

steddyeddy

Spudmonkey wrote: »

I haven't 27 convictions to my name. I haven't assaulted a guard. Why should I believe some guard is going to break into my house to assault me. Talk about twisting it to make your point!

Becuase the discretion of whos a scumbag would lie with the gaurds.

Johnny Utah

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html

Well surprise surprise, the Garda asault trial has just collapsed.... :rolleyes:

Uriel.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html

Well surprise surprise, the Garda asault trial has just collapsed.... :rolleyes:

In what way does this surprise you?

bryaner

Delighted for the scumbag.

prinz

Johnny Utah wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html
Well surprise surprise, the Garda asault trial has just collapsed.... :rolleyes:

....and? Plenty of people here screaming for the law to be applied properly....when it is applied properly..it's a conspiracy or what? It's up to the DPP now, he can direct a retrial.

youcancallmeal

Nothing has been resolved, it will just go to retrial which probably won't be for ages so looks like this is set to run and run. It would be interesting to know what the 'information' is that caused this collapse?

senordingdong

Nodin wrote: »

I think theres a 'Grasping At Straws' award for you...

Why? Because I expect the matter to be held to the letter of the law?

Johnny Utah wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html

Well surprise surprise, the Garda asault trial has just collapsed....

So....are we going to find out what these 'matters' were?

I wonder have they finally considered the possibility that Gaffney, may have, just a little bit, twisted the truth.

erogonamalu

well well well

Finnbar01

Spudmonkey wrote: »

I haven't 27 convictions to my name. I haven't assaulted a guard. Why should I believe some guard is going to break into my house to assault me. Talk about twisting it to make your point!

What if the gardaí broke into your house instead of you scumbag neighbours and assaulted you? Would you be OK with that?

Nodin

senordingdong wrote: »

So....are we going to find out what these 'matters' were?

I wonder have they finally considered the possibility that Gaffney, may have, just a little bit, twisted the truth.

Well then, perhaps you might explain why all these Gardai were in his house...

senordingdong

Nodin wrote: »

Well then, perhaps you might explain why all these Gardai were in his house...

I would, but I haven't been privy to these matters :P

Furthermore, did we even have any proof that they were in his house?

The Waltzing Consumer

Johnny Utah wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html

Well surprise surprise, the Garda asault trial has just collapsed.... :rolleyes:

My heart is broken for the poor scumbag with 27 convictions. How dare he not get justice!

Nodin

senordingdong wrote: »

I would, but I haven't been privy to these matters :P

Furthermore, did we even have any proof that they were in his house?

So you're content to say "nyahh" when asked for an explanation of why a number of men were in a house, when there was sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution.....

You do realise that there were around 10 Gardai around the house at the time of the incident and that they used two or three cars to get there...? And that blood from one of the Gardai was found in the house....

RoadKillTs

The jury was discharged by Judge Desmond Hogan on the grounds that certain matters had come to light from the prosecution and ombudsman office.

Wonder what happened.

jugger0

Well done to the guards, pitty they didnt finish the job.

mike kelly

RoadKillTs wrote: »

Wonder what happened.

the GRA threatened a dose of blue flu after he budget?

Bosco Boy, what do you think? What an amazingly transparent system of (in)justice we have!

Spudmonkey

Finnbar01 wrote: »

What if the gardaí broke into your house instead of you scumbag neighbours and assaulted you? Would you be OK with that?

Seriously?? Is that even comparable to this case? I'm not sure where you live but where I do, Gardai do not break into random peoples homes and assault them.

I'll re-iterate. The guy had 27 previous convictions and had broken a guards jaw, even to the Fr Sean Healy's of this world, this guy is a pretty bad egg. How are you to know he wasn't resisting arrest or or threatened the gardai who came to arrest him with violence.

daltonm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html

"The jury was discharged by Judge Desmond Hogan on the grounds that certain matters had come to light from the prosecution and ombudsman office.
The judge said that what had been disclosed was a serious matter and needed to be examined.
The case has been put back to 10 November for a date to be set for a retrial. "



Actually it looks bad for the Gardai.

mike kelly

daltonm wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1026/garda.html

"The jury was discharged by Judge Desmond Hogan on the grounds that certain matters had come to light from the prosecution and ombudsman office.
The judge said that what had been disclosed was a serious matter and needed to be examined.
The case has been put back to 10 November for a date to be set for a retrial. "



Actually it looks bad for the Gardai.

It's a bit mysterious. Did the gardai try to interfere with a juror?

daltonm

mike kelly wrote: »

It's a bit mysterious. Did the gardai try to interfere with a juror?

Or a witness?

steddyeddy

yes I dont know why people are thinking the case is dropped, it does look like the gaurds have a lot more to answer for, the ombudsman would not be investigating the alleged scumbag in this case! so anything new found out by the ombudsman would be in relation to the gaurda.

heffomike54

If the Ombudsman found some new evidence regarding one of the Gardai, then why would the trial collapse? Surely they Ombudsman would want the case to progress with the new evidence, there and then?

The Waltzing Consumer

steddyeddy wrote: »

yes I dont know why people are thinking the case is dropped, it does look like the gaurds have a lot more to answer for, the ombudsman would not be investigating the alleged scumbag in this case! so anything new found out by the ombudsman would be in relation to the gaurda.

Eh thats not definite. The quote is "The jury was discharged by Judge Desmond Hogan on the grounds that certain matters had come to light from the prosecution and ombudsman office." So it is not just ombudsman, so it may not be in relation the Gardai.

So to all law heads, what kind of issues can come to the prosecutions attention which would cause the trial to collapse?

Snakeblood

heffomike54 wrote: »

If the Ombudsman found some new evidence regarding one of the Gardai, then why would the trial collapse? Surely they Ombudsman would want the case to progress with the new evidence, there and then?

Possibly there are more serious charges, like jury tampering. Wild speculation, but if the jury is nobbled, maybe they have to stop the case.

prinz

Could be any number of reasons, could be information relating to the defendant gardaí, could be in relation to the original investigation, could be in relation to the original accusations, could be in relation to how the book of evidence was prepared, could be in relation to activities by the office of the ombudsman, could be a witness issue, could be anything.........

steddyeddy

heffomike54 wrote: »

If the Ombudsman found some new evidence regarding one of the Gardai, then why would the trial collapse? Surely they Ombudsman would want the case to progress with the new evidence, there and then?

novemeber the tenth scheduled for re-trial

ArmaniJeanss

heffomike54 wrote: »

If the Ombudsman found some new evidence regarding one of the Gardai, then why would the trial collapse? Surely they Ombudsman would want the case to progress with the new evidence, there and then?

I don't think Irish law allows extra evidence to be found and presented during the trial, sounds too much like a CSI/Law+Order episode.
As far as I know before the trial starts both sides must have knowledge of all evidence that will be presented?

steddyeddy

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I don't think Irish law allows extra evidence to be found and presented during the trial, sounds too much like a CSI/Law+Order episode.
As far as I know before the trial starts both sides must have knowledge of all evidence that will be presented?

unless something is found out which completly changes the nature of the charges, in this case the defense is most likely!

david75

Sounds like they've interfered with a witness or a juror. They really wouldn't throw it out for anything the prosecution or the guy in question could have done.

prinz

david75 wrote: »

Sounds like they've interfered with a witness or a juror. They really wouldn't throw it out for anything the prosecution or the guy in question could have done.

Yes. Yes they would.

MagicSean

Tigger wrote: »

Myself and three friend walking down grafton st ( Dublin) in 2003
Two cops are hurting a small youth he's about 60 kg. Mabey 5 6" and they are kneeling on his Bach and twisting his arms
I call out " why are you doing that he's caught go easy " q d this woman guard comes over " what's your name" somwr leave cos they are gonna win but the fact is they hurt that lad after the had him

I don't know the details on the case but I have see. Cops hurt young fellas cos they can

Perhaps he had aids and was trying to infect them. Did that occur to you?

steddyeddy

The case could be re-scheduled as mentioned on rte.

Nodin

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Seriously?? Is that even comparable to this case? I'm not sure where you live but where I do, Gardai do not break into random peoples homes and assault them.

I'll re-iterate. The guy had 27 previous convictions and had broken a guards jaw, even to the Fr Sean Healy's of this world, this guy is a pretty bad egg. How are you to know he wasn't resisting arrest or or threatened the gardai who came to arrest him with violence.

Because, as has been pointed out ad fucking nauseam on this thread, they weren't there to arrest him, in execution of a search warrant, or any other lawful reason....which is why they were being charged with unlawful entry.....

deandean

I have a horrible feeling that this case is going to cost us taxpayers a bloody fortune.

steddyeddy

k_mac wrote: »

Perhaps he had aids and was trying to infect them. Did that occur to you?

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

Nodin

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

There was an EU report many years ago which concluded that physical abuse was rampant. I believe the Government of the time sat on it for over a year, until they'd managed to get increased powers through the dail....have to look up when though....I'm old...old and grey....

steddyeddy

Nodin wrote: »

There was an EU report many years ago which concluded that physical abuse was rampant. I believe the Government of the time sat on it for over a year, until they'd managed to get increased powers through the dail....have to look up when though....I'm old...old and grey....

no your quite right, several gaurds implicated none prosecuted.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/06/05/story5407.asp

guys anyone who thinks that gaurds should torment and harrass who they like look at the above link from the donegal corruption scandal and ask yourself should they have the power to beat who they like!

Nodin

steddyeddy wrote: »

no your quite right, several gaurds implicated none prosecuted.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/06/05/story5407.asp

guys anyone who thinks that gaurds should torment and harrass who they like look at the above link from the donegal corruption scandal and ask yourself should they have the power to beat who they like!

No, this was a survey of Garda stations in Dublin, and one of the conclusions was that suspects in a good few 'ran the real risk of physical abuse'...mid 1990's, possibly.

steddyeddy

Nodin wrote: »

No, this was a survey of Garda stations in Dublin, and one of the conclusions was that suspects in a good few 'ran the real risk of physical abuse'...mid 1990's, possibly.

ah yea thanks I remember, I meant to use the link to follow on a different point.

Yea if I wanted to have the criminals beaten I would just hire vigilantes!

Tigger

k_mac wrote: »

Perhaps he had aids and was trying to infect them. Did that occur to you?

no sir sorry sir

NewHillel

jugger0 wrote: »

Well done to the guards, pitty they didnt finish the job.

When you grow up, you might think better of that comment. (Oh, and ask the teacher how to spell "pitty".)

NewHillel

Nodin wrote: »

There was an EU report many years ago which concluded that physical abuse was rampant. I believe the Government of the time sat on it for over a year, until they'd managed to get increased powers through the dail....have to look up when though....I'm old...old and grey....

It's not just in Ireland, either, there's lots of evidence of police forces in the US going well beyond the limits of the law. Starts in small ways, getting confessions/evidence/retribution from the known "scumbags". Little, by little, it spreads. You have to get to the young Gardai, with proper ethics training, before the culture of collegiality takes over.

Many of the forces use the Reid Technique whose effectiveness has been comprehensively demolished by US studies. Many an innocent life has been destroyed through over-reliance on that methodology. It bears a strong resemblance to the activities of the "Heavy Gang", here at home.

goat2

Johro wrote: »

What's disgusting here is your attitude, making assumptions like that without knowing anything about the incident. The facts are that the guards forced their way in, all four of them, and then subjected a teenager to a beating. Maybe he was a 'scumbag'. That doesn't right a wrong. You fail to see that holding these Gardai to account is for your protection too. What's ridiculous about saying 'Why didn't they arrest him'? It's a fair question.

that is the word of a person who has 27 times come across the gardai before, i would rather hear what the gardai side of this story is, would not take the word of someone who is in the habit of breaking the law

Nodin

goat2 wrote: »

that is the word of a person who has 27 times come across the gardai before, i would rather hear what the gardai side of this story is, would not take the word of someone who is in the habit of breaking the law

Well no, its the word of the prosecution that over 10 Gardai were in and around the house on the night in question. Its an established fact that they had no lawful warrant to be in the house at the time. Its also a fact that one of the Gardais blood was found in the house.

goat2 wrote: »

thank god, sense prevailed, and the game is up for this lawbreaker

The Gardai are up for a retrial. That means its more than likely the new evidence relates to the case against the Gardai.

Have you bothered to read anything about this case, or did you just arrive rant in hand?

kazul

goat2 wrote: »

that is the word of a person who has 27 times come across the gardai before, i would rather hear what the gardai side of this story is, would not take the word of someone who is in the habit of breaking the law

So he's automatically guilty of everything for the rest of his life?
By that logic, we should execute everybody after their first offence and there would be no more crime
Sounds like a blatant abuse of authority by the gardai involved.
Why do you take their word over his? By all accounts they had no legitimate reason to even be in his home, i.e. no warrant. So in this scenario they appear to be the ones "in the habit of breaking the law"

Bosco boy

mike kelly wrote: »

the GRA threatened a dose of blue flu after he budget?

Bosco Boy, what do you think? What an amazingly transparent system of (in)justice we have!

I think you should be the next scriptwriter for the new series of "lost" your coming up with some great stuff.

MagicSean

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

Maybe it's because the Gardaí do not have the option of shooting someone if they resist arrest. The absence of a firearm demands that they be more physical on a regular basis. And the penalties for attacking a Garda in this country are pitiful too (the complainant in this case broke a gardas jaw and only got community service) so there is little deterrant for a person not to attack a Garda. So restraining a person is less about a power trip and more about saving your own skin. Its just as easy for a midget to bite you as it is for a giant.

MagicSean

Tigger wrote: »

no sir sorry sir

Im glad I have educated you a little.

480905

I'm surprised the mods haven't intervened here. This is a case that is before the courts and despite what anybody believes or wants to believe , defendants are innocent until proven guilty.
If the courts deem it necessary to dissolve a trial then that presents further issues to which people should be very very wary of commenting on in a public forum. Whatever issues have presented that warranted this,will, in due course, be presented in evidence and then ,and only then, will people be able to comment.

I, for one, wouldn't like to be in the defendants' shoes.

Leave well alone people.

It will all come out in the wash.