Gardaí to stand trial in connection with alleged assault on teenager

Bosco boy

Sure even the jury don't know the full facts yets as the case isn't over yet! Can't see how you (johro) know any more than anyone else!

allthedoyles

Anyone here ever been awoken at 4am to hear Gardai trying to arrest a neighbour ?

If so they may understand why Gardai have to take such action.

Do people here know what its is like when someone resists arrest ?

Spudmonkey

No I don't. I don't no anymore than what was reported in the papers. The fact he had has so many convictions against him and what he did to that guard is enough to me.

mike kelly

etymon wrote: »

I was assaulted once at work by an awful skanger, Guards arrived etc etc and next day when I called down to the station to give my statement they asked me to 're-think' if I wanted them to go ahead and press charges as this girl had been raped in the past and was therefore... not right in the head, understandably, so they said. I felt so sorry for her I said grand, leave it be, but then read a few months later in the Wicklow People she was up for her 100th+ charge on public order offences... hmmm. Lazy guards or genuine pity for her.... I still feel bad for her not having had the benefit of a safe and happy upbringing but hey....

Not that connected to this story

sorry to hear that, I'll bet the gardai made up that rape story, they are just to lazy to go ahead with prosecutions where property damage is not involved.

Bosco boy

mike kelly wrote: »

sorry to hear that, I'll bet the gardai made up that rape story, they are just to lazy to go ahead with prosecutions where property damage is not involved.

mike try the conspiricy theories section, you'd love it there, mad stuff!

mike kelly

Bosco boy wrote: »

mike try the conspiricy theories section, you'd love it there, mad stuff!

here's another theory - the prosecution only asked for an adjournment on Friday so they could all have an extra long bank holiday weekend!

Nodin

allthedoyles wrote: »

Anyone here ever been awoken at 4am to hear Gardai trying to arrest a neighbour ?

If so they may understand why Gardai have to take such action.

Do people here know what its is like when someone resists arrest ?

He wasn't being arrested. Hence the charges against the guards.

the bolt

Degsy wrote: »

There's plenty of people knocking around and the only thing they'd understand is a good hiding.
Little mouthy scumbags who get away with murder at home and "know thier rights" when the cops go to tackle them.
Dirty little shiites,we need a few Lugs Brannigan style cops to give them proper justice.

i seem to remember a few people with that attitute in guilford,birnigham,donegal and elsewhere,oh yeah everything was grand except the people were inocent.

the bolt

Nodin wrote: »

O look, wild speculation and the attempt to besmirch by implying stereotypes.



I was unaware that Gardai automatically manifested at the home of wrong doers with unerring accuracy. Why bother with trials, following that logic....

To invert the question, if this person was guilty of something, why wasn't he arrested and charged?

why shouldnt she be wearing pjs in her own fing house........

jackiebaron

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The IRA have no authority and represent nobody. There also isn't an IRA ombudsman who is answerable to the people of this country if the IRA go too far, which they far too regularly did.

I think you might want to read my post again. I point out that people are cheering the employment of vigilante violence by the Gardai yet are condemning it when doled out by the IRA. Now, to examine your angle on this, it's OK for a cadre to dish out vigilante violence providing they are overseen by an ombudsman but those who are not overseen must not engage in the aforementioned thuggery.
You also mention "going too far". What the fück is "going too far"? What violent punishment is acceptable and what is not? Praytell.

the bolt

Degsy wrote: »

Because he hasnt got any..if he had been actually hurt,his concerned mother would be parading his broken limbs,sutured face and missing teeth all over the place.
He wasnt hurt,him and his mother are looking for compo.

and i for one hopes he gets it if it turns out he was assulted in his own home by thugs in uniform,many years ago i was in bed in rural ireland and woke to find a drunken guard at my bedside.he give me a fair good hiding and proceeded to say he was aresting me for something my older brother may have been involved in.he put me in the squad car ,drove me on up the road and threatened to throw me over a bridge.i know i was no angel but he broke more laws that night than i ever did,so forgive me if i dont agree with your idea of justice but after been on the recieving end of it no thanks.i was about 12/13 at the time so was hardly a hardned criminal.i would love to meet the b astart now.

Liam Byrne

jackiebaron wrote: »

I think you might want to read my post again. I point out that people are cheering the employment of vigilante violence by the Gardai yet are condemning it when doled out by the IRA. Now, to examine your angle on this, it's OK for a cadre to dish out vigilante violence providing they are overseen by an ombudsman but those who are not overseen must not engage in the aforementioned thuggery.
You also mention "going too far". What the fück is "going too far"? What violent punishment is acceptable and what is not? Praytell.

As I said, the IRA have no authority to "dole out" anything. They have even less than a "normal" vigilante individual or group who might be driven to it, because of the IRA's own atrocities and crimes. Having someone from the IRA dictate to someone else that they can't hurt innocent people or damage property or steal stuff that isn't theirs is laughable.

The Gardai at least have some authority, and most people here would point out that the individual was a serious career criminal who was known to be violent.

That's not condoning the Gardai's actions, but it is putting it in context.

Re "going too far", well if you're going to confront someone who previously has no history of violence, you should approach them relatively neutrally, simply ready for an unexpected reaction; if you are approaching someone who is a career thug and has assaulted and broken the nose of a Garda doing his duty, then you are understandably likely to be more aggressive......the question of "too far" comes into just "how" aggressive is appropriate.

I'm certainly not condoning ad-hoc violence by anyone, including the Gardai, but whatever about giving someone the benefit of the doubt or giving them one or maybe 2 chances, someone with 27 convictions (and remember, that's convictions, not just 27 crimes - god knows how many they might have gotten away with over that period, and statistically their assumption of innocence is affected by their track record/behaviour) has no-one to blame but themselves.

the bolt

bamboozle wrote: »

story i heard was an off duty garda was walking home along Camden Street, bumped into the young lad, words were had, scuffle ensued and the garda came out the worse for wear.
Next morning he rounded up a few garda mates and they paid a visit to the lad.

not standing up for the gardai, but that lad was looking for trouble and he got it.

how was he looking for trouble as according to you he was walking along and the guard bumped into him,guard comes of the worst,rounds up back up the next day.pure scumbag way of doing things id say.why didnt he go on his own if he wanted to sort it out.

MagicSean

Johro wrote: »

What's disgusting here is your attitude, making assumptions like that without knowing anything about the incident. The facts are that the guards forced their way in, all four of them, and then subjected a teenager to a beating. Maybe he was a 'scumbag'. That doesn't right a wrong. You fail to see that holding these Gardai to account is for your protection too. What's ridiculous about saying 'Why didn't they arrest him'? It's a fair question.

They aren't the facts. That's the allegation.

Johro

k_mac wrote: »

They aren't the facts. That's the allegation.

Fair enough;) They were at least reported though. It is not alleged that the teenager was a 'degenerate' or a 'scourge on society'. Just that he's a teenager. Assumptions ya see.

Johro

allthedoyles wrote: »

Anyone here ever been awoken at 4am to hear Gardai trying to arrest a neighbour ?

If so they may understand why Gardai have to take such action.

Do people here know what its is like when someone resists arrest ?

They didn't arrest him. If they intended to, four guards should be plenty, if not overkill.

Johro

I don't think the point is whether the guy is a scumbag or not. The point is that there are rules in place which should not be disregarded by people in positions of power. It's dangerous. You might be next.

Tigger

Myself and three friend walking down grafton st ( Dublin) in 2003
Two cops are hurting a small youth he's about 60 kg. Mabey 5 6" and they are kneeling on his Bach and twisting his arms
I call out " why are you doing that he's caught go easy " q d this woman guard comes over " what's your name" somwr leave cos they are gonna win but the fact is they hurt that lad after the had him

I don't know the details on the case but I have see. Cops hurt young fellas cos they can

goat2

Nodin wrote: »

So instead of thugs running round the streets chased by Gardai, we have thugs chased by uniformed thugs, the latter less accountable to the law than the former.



Whats that got to do with this case, exactly?

if you read a paper,you would have known that this guy that is alleging assault, have in the past assaulted the gardai, i should think that these people are law enforcer haters, and would lie about anything, how many convictions has he already, and there is the woman who was responsible for rearing him.

Nodin

goat2 wrote: »

if you read a paper,you would have known that this guy that is alleging assault, have in the past assaulted the gardai, i should think that these people are law enforcer haters, and would lie about anything, how many convictions has he already, and there is the woman who was responsible for rearing him.

....didn't really read it too well, did you?

Four gardaí have gone on trial charged with assaulting a teenager after forcibly entering his home as trespassers.
Three of the four are also charged with false imprisonment.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1019/garda.html

So he was beaten not in the course of an arrest, or the prosecution of a search warrant, 'hot pursuit', entering the premises in the belief a crime was being committed or whatever....which is why they're in court.

goat2

Nodin wrote: »

....didn't really read it too well, did you?

Four gardaí have gone on trial charged with assaulting a teenager after forcibly entering his home as trespassers.
Three of the four are also charged with false imprisonment.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1019/garda.html

So he was beaten not in the course of an arrest, or the prosecution of a search warrant, 'hot pursuit', entering the premises in the belief a crime was being committed or whatever....which is why they're in court.

the gardai knew that they were not dealing with an innicent person, this thug had already assaulted members of the force, and hurt some members in the past, all he got were a few bruises, nothing serious, and i am sure brought on by himself, beating back at gardai, they had to protect themselves, i would not and could not stand in the side of people like this thug, they do deserve a good going over for once, and locked up for the sake of public safety

Nodin

goat2 wrote: »

the gardai knew that they were not dealing with an innicent person,

What was he guilty of....? Because if you remember, they weren't executing any form of lawful warrant or attempting arrest....

goat2 wrote: »

this thug had already assaulted members of the force, and hurt some members in the past,

The past? O, you mean what he'd been convicted of before....

goat2 wrote: »

all he got were a few bruises, nothing serious, and i am sure brought on by himself, beating back at gardai,

These would be the Gardai who broke into his house, yep...

goat2 wrote: »

they had to protect themselves,

....all four of them, from the guy whose house they'd broken into, in order to beat up. Yeah, its possible.....

goat2 wrote: »

i would not and could not stand in the side of people like this thug, they do deserve a good going over for once, and locked up for the sake of public safety

So once you do something wrong and are convicted, its ok at any later stage for the Gardai - when the mood descends on them - to break into your house and beat the crap out of you, because you're a "thug".

Liam Byrne

Nodin wrote: »

So once you do something wrong and are convicted......

If it were "once", you might have a point.

27 times, you've made your bed.

Liam Byrne

mike kelly wrote: »

27 is pretty low by scumbag standards. A law whcih locked up for life anyone with more than 100 convictions would be a big step forward

I have no interest in what "scumbag standards" are.

I like the "three strikes" rule.

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If it were "once", you might have a point.

27 times, you've made your bed.

Really Liam? So a lad with no sense (a not uncommon thing) is condemned for the rest of his existence to random break ins and beatings...?

Aren't you the big one on "law and order"?

Mylow

goat2 wrote: »

the gardai knew that they were not dealing with an innicent person, this thug had already assaulted members of the force, and hurt some members in the past, all he got were a few bruises, nothing serious, and i am sure brought on by himself, beating back at gardai, they had to protect themselves, i would not and could not stand in the side of people like this thug, they do deserve a good going over for once, and locked up for the sake of public safety

You have to ask the question do we really want to employ Gardai that are stupid enough to think they could allegedly carry this out? From the reports the bloke is no angel, this doesn't give you automatic right to give him a beating. The probable outcome is the 4 Gardai will be found guilty and sacked, local lad will be hero to a load of low lifes. Just show's you how naive some Gardai can be. With the advent of pretty good quality video from camera phones we will see more videos of people being stupid.

Bosco boy

mike kelly wrote: »

here's another theory - the prosecution only asked for an adjournment on Friday so they could all have an extra long bank holiday weekend!

I'm in stiches mike, really, mad stuff!!!

senordingdong

Nodin wrote: »

These would be the Gardai who broke into his house, yep...

Well at the time of the alledged incident, it was illeagal to attack intruders in your home. So he shouldn't have hit back.
If all of this is true that is.

Nijmegen

I think that we can all agree that there are a lot of small time scumbags out there for whom justice is an abstract notion that needs to be made more concrete.

However, the Gardai entering a premises without a warrant or in the presence of any crime being committed, locking an occupant of that house in a bathroom, and proceeding the beat a man in his bed - regardless of who he is or his prior history - goes against all common sense in a democratic, law abiding state.

If the Gardai are allowed to beat up 'scumbags', suddenly who decides who the scumbags are? Where is the line drawn? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

That sounds a lot like a reversion into Latin American style policing and government.

We need tougher courts, more prison places and harsher sentences that people actually serve.

Having our already opaque Gardai roaming the streets as simply the best equipped gang in the state is not the answer to our troubles.

Nodin

senordingdong wrote: »

Well at the time of the alledged incident, it was illeagal to attack intruders in your home. So he shouldn't have hit back.
If all of this is true that is.

I think theres a 'Grasping At Straws' award for you...