Gardaí to stand trial in connection with alleged assault on teenager

prinz

david75 wrote: »

Sounds like they've interfered with a witness or a juror. They really wouldn't throw it out for anything the prosecution or the guy in question could have done.

Yes. Yes they would.

MagicSean

Tigger wrote: »

Myself and three friend walking down grafton st ( Dublin) in 2003
Two cops are hurting a small youth he's about 60 kg. Mabey 5 6" and they are kneeling on his Bach and twisting his arms
I call out " why are you doing that he's caught go easy " q d this woman guard comes over " what's your name" somwr leave cos they are gonna win but the fact is they hurt that lad after the had him

I don't know the details on the case but I have see. Cops hurt young fellas cos they can

Perhaps he had aids and was trying to infect them. Did that occur to you?

steddyeddy

The case could be re-scheduled as mentioned on rte.

Nodin

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Seriously?? Is that even comparable to this case? I'm not sure where you live but where I do, Gardai do not break into random peoples homes and assault them.

I'll re-iterate. The guy had 27 previous convictions and had broken a guards jaw, even to the Fr Sean Healy's of this world, this guy is a pretty bad egg. How are you to know he wasn't resisting arrest or or threatened the gardai who came to arrest him with violence.

Because, as has been pointed out ad fucking nauseam on this thread, they weren't there to arrest him, in execution of a search warrant, or any other lawful reason....which is why they were being charged with unlawful entry.....

deandean

I have a horrible feeling that this case is going to cost us taxpayers a bloody fortune.

steddyeddy

k_mac wrote: »

Perhaps he had aids and was trying to infect them. Did that occur to you?

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

Nodin

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

There was an EU report many years ago which concluded that physical abuse was rampant. I believe the Government of the time sat on it for over a year, until they'd managed to get increased powers through the dail....have to look up when though....I'm old...old and grey....

steddyeddy

Nodin wrote: »

There was an EU report many years ago which concluded that physical abuse was rampant. I believe the Government of the time sat on it for over a year, until they'd managed to get increased powers through the dail....have to look up when though....I'm old...old and grey....

no your quite right, several gaurds implicated none prosecuted.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/06/05/story5407.asp

guys anyone who thinks that gaurds should torment and harrass who they like look at the above link from the donegal corruption scandal and ask yourself should they have the power to beat who they like!

Nodin

steddyeddy wrote: »

no your quite right, several gaurds implicated none prosecuted.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/06/05/story5407.asp

guys anyone who thinks that gaurds should torment and harrass who they like look at the above link from the donegal corruption scandal and ask yourself should they have the power to beat who they like!

No, this was a survey of Garda stations in Dublin, and one of the conclusions was that suspects in a good few 'ran the real risk of physical abuse'...mid 1990's, possibly.

steddyeddy

Nodin wrote: »

No, this was a survey of Garda stations in Dublin, and one of the conclusions was that suspects in a good few 'ran the real risk of physical abuse'...mid 1990's, possibly.

ah yea thanks I remember, I meant to use the link to follow on a different point.

Yea if I wanted to have the criminals beaten I would just hire vigilantes!

Tigger

k_mac wrote: »

Perhaps he had aids and was trying to infect them. Did that occur to you?

no sir sorry sir

NewHillel

jugger0 wrote: »

Well done to the guards, pitty they didnt finish the job.

When you grow up, you might think better of that comment. (Oh, and ask the teacher how to spell "pitty".)

NewHillel

Nodin wrote: »

There was an EU report many years ago which concluded that physical abuse was rampant. I believe the Government of the time sat on it for over a year, until they'd managed to get increased powers through the dail....have to look up when though....I'm old...old and grey....

It's not just in Ireland, either, there's lots of evidence of police forces in the US going well beyond the limits of the law. Starts in small ways, getting confessions/evidence/retribution from the known "scumbags". Little, by little, it spreads. You have to get to the young Gardai, with proper ethics training, before the culture of collegiality takes over.

Many of the forces use the Reid Technique whose effectiveness has been comprehensively demolished by US studies. Many an innocent life has been destroyed through over-reliance on that methodology. It bears a strong resemblance to the activities of the "Heavy Gang", here at home.

goat2

Johro wrote: »

What's disgusting here is your attitude, making assumptions like that without knowing anything about the incident. The facts are that the guards forced their way in, all four of them, and then subjected a teenager to a beating. Maybe he was a 'scumbag'. That doesn't right a wrong. You fail to see that holding these Gardai to account is for your protection too. What's ridiculous about saying 'Why didn't they arrest him'? It's a fair question.

that is the word of a person who has 27 times come across the gardai before, i would rather hear what the gardai side of this story is, would not take the word of someone who is in the habit of breaking the law

Nodin

goat2 wrote: »

that is the word of a person who has 27 times come across the gardai before, i would rather hear what the gardai side of this story is, would not take the word of someone who is in the habit of breaking the law

Well no, its the word of the prosecution that over 10 Gardai were in and around the house on the night in question. Its an established fact that they had no lawful warrant to be in the house at the time. Its also a fact that one of the Gardais blood was found in the house.

goat2 wrote: »

thank god, sense prevailed, and the game is up for this lawbreaker

The Gardai are up for a retrial. That means its more than likely the new evidence relates to the case against the Gardai.

Have you bothered to read anything about this case, or did you just arrive rant in hand?

kazul

goat2 wrote: »

that is the word of a person who has 27 times come across the gardai before, i would rather hear what the gardai side of this story is, would not take the word of someone who is in the habit of breaking the law

So he's automatically guilty of everything for the rest of his life?
By that logic, we should execute everybody after their first offence and there would be no more crime
Sounds like a blatant abuse of authority by the gardai involved.
Why do you take their word over his? By all accounts they had no legitimate reason to even be in his home, i.e. no warrant. So in this scenario they appear to be the ones "in the habit of breaking the law"

Bosco boy

mike kelly wrote: »

the GRA threatened a dose of blue flu after he budget?

Bosco Boy, what do you think? What an amazingly transparent system of (in)justice we have!

I think you should be the next scriptwriter for the new series of "lost" your coming up with some great stuff.

MagicSean

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

Maybe it's because the Gardaí do not have the option of shooting someone if they resist arrest. The absence of a firearm demands that they be more physical on a regular basis. And the penalties for attacking a Garda in this country are pitiful too (the complainant in this case broke a gardas jaw and only got community service) so there is little deterrant for a person not to attack a Garda. So restraining a person is less about a power trip and more about saving your own skin. Its just as easy for a midget to bite you as it is for a giant.

MagicSean

Tigger wrote: »

no sir sorry sir

Im glad I have educated you a little.

480905

I'm surprised the mods haven't intervened here. This is a case that is before the courts and despite what anybody believes or wants to believe , defendants are innocent until proven guilty.
If the courts deem it necessary to dissolve a trial then that presents further issues to which people should be very very wary of commenting on in a public forum. Whatever issues have presented that warranted this,will, in due course, be presented in evidence and then ,and only then, will people be able to comment.

I, for one, wouldn't like to be in the defendants' shoes.

Leave well alone people.

It will all come out in the wash.

Bosco boy

This is a live case before the courts, if it was in the legal forum it would be closed, there are wild allegations going back and forth and I think mods should get some advice on it at this stage especially with a re trial, open it up afterwards but some comments here could be qouted and prejudice the trial!

slurcher

I hope that there is a fair trial and investigation unlike the assault by Shane Waldron and in the case of Terrance Whelock.

We are all like the garda, people with lives conciences etc, yet the statistics of the garda complaints authority doesnt represent this. Less than 0.5% of complaints makes it to a proper investigation.

If the rest of us could carry on through life only needing to worry about 1 in 200 of our bad deeds being in any way repremanded, many of us would waltz through life acting like complete gits.

cuppa

i really hope the bullys get locked up.its about time these so called garda faced justice.

cuppa

i really hope the bullys get locked up.its about time these so called garda faced justice.

pirelli

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually if it was most other forces in a first world country I would agree with you but if this country wants to progress we have to stop putting thugs in uniform. I was never in trouble with the law yet for someone who was never in trouble I encountered a lot of gaurds on powertrips. they were mentioned in european research as being one of the least transparent forces in europe, I deserve better as we all do. we can certainly do better than four gaurds breaking into a guys house and beating them, anyone one can do that you dont need to be on a gaurda wage to do it!

What report was this. I just read the TI ( transparency international) report and it ranked ireland as having very high levels of corruption but it concerned legal corruption.

The “National Integrity System Country Study” published today by anti-corruption group Transparency International (TI) is the most wide ranging analysis to be ever conducted on the issue in Ireland. Carried out over two and a half years, the research looked at the risk of corruption and abuse of power in sixteen sectors including government, politics, business, civil society and the media. It also examined the role these sectors have to play in promoting integrity in public life.

“Ireland has long suffered from high levels of undue or hidden influence over regulation and government by vested interests. It’s only now that our country is on the brink of bankruptcy that we can see for ourselves the consequences of weak anti-corruption controls and self-regulation”, said the study’s editor and TI Ireland Chief Executive, John Devitt.

“We urgently need comprehensive legal safeguards for whistleblowers. Current Government proposals to protect whistleblowers in Ireland do not go far enough and will leave most private sector and banking employees without protection if they report an issue of public concern”.

pirelli

The TI bascially gave a summary of The Morris Tribunial and highlighted changes that were happening and indicated they were not comprehensive enough:

The Morris Tribunal was established in 2002 to consider allegations of misconduct within the Donegal Garda division. It published six critical reports finding ‘a lack of proper management at senior level, corruption at middle level, and a lack of review throughout the force’.
The fourth Tribunal report recommended that urgent consideration be given as to ‘what changes in structure, ethics, training and composition of an Garda Síochána might best militate agains a recurrence of the extraordinary events chronicled in the reports’. In his fifth report, Justice Morris stated that the Tribunal was ‘staggered by the amount of indiscipline and insubordination it has found in the Garda force.


In response to the Tribunal’s criticism of the ‘code of silence’
which existed in the Gardaí the Government introduced a whistleblower’s charter for members of the police service.

senordingdong

Nodin wrote: »

So you're content to say "nyahh" when asked for an explanation of why a number of men were in a house, when there was sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution.....

I'm not trying to offer an explanation because I wasn't trying to dismiss yours.

You do realise that there were around 10 Gardai around the house at the time of the incident and that they used two or three cars to get there...? And that blood from one of the Gardai was found in the house....

No, I did not realise that there was blood from a Garda in the house.
I'm just skeptical about the story being told by the prosecution.

ebixa82

The Gardai are not off the hook. There will be a retrial. However the Gardai will probably still get off.

There is no doubt that the defendent is a scumbag and probably deserved a good hiding but that's not up to the Gardai to decide or inflict.

Both parties are scum if you ask me..

MagicSean

slurcher wrote: »

I hope that there is a fair trial and investigation unlike the assault by Shane Waldron and in the case of Terrance Whelock.

We are all like the garda, people with lives conciences etc, yet the statistics of the garda complaints authority doesnt represent this. Less than 0.5% of complaints makes it to a proper investigation.

If the rest of us could carry on through life only needing to worry about 1 in 200 of our bad deeds being in any way repremanded, many of us would waltz through life acting like complete gits.

So you are just assuming that 100% of complaints are true?

Snakeblood

k_mac wrote: »

So you are just assuming that 100% of complaints are true?

He didn't say that at all. He said that most complaints weren't subject to a full investigation.