Gardaí to stand trial in connection with alleged assault on teenager

thelordofcheese

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Isnt Justice just revenge served by a different person?

No.

Justice is usually punishment delivered by a legitimate judicial system on behalf of all of society and with proper safeguards to try and prevent wrongfull sentancing
Revenge is kicking the **** out of someone because you've decided that you're word is law and they had it comming.

Do you see?

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

What were the "considerable number of uniformed gardai" doing there if he was a perfectly innocent lad,minding his own business?.

Well, if he hadn't committed an arrestable offence, I presume the idea is that they were acting like a group of vengeful thugs.

Degsy wrote: »

He got a taste of his own medicine .

But he and a large group of others didn't break into somebodys home and beat them. Nor did he injure anyone in a manner that could be prosecuted. Had he acted the way the Gardai are alledged to, he could have been arrested.

SoupyNorman

Degsy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure when I was a teenegar if a pose of guards came to my house looking for me my mother would never talk to me again.
She'd be so humiliated that she'd naturally take thier side and certainly wouldnt be making complaints about the guards.
Thats what people expect now,its never little Jimmy's fault that he's been running amok,its the guards fault for being heavy handed with the poor delicate creature.

Like when my oul fella tells stories of his schooling in Pearse st. about getting slapped around by the teacher. He'd tell his parents and then get slapped around by them because theres no smoke without fire.

johnny_knoxvile

ScumLord wrote: »

No it's not. I have yet to witness any of this social decay. We're no worse than any other developed country, this is a standard side effect of the type of country we've gladly built for ourselves. Beating up people and throwing them in jail won't ever fix it either.

The guards shouldn't be a law onto themselves. They get away with this kind of stuff all the time, perhaps the people deserve it in a one on one confrontation but the guards represent the state and should be above personal vendettas which I've seen happen allot out here in the country at least.

just because you havent seen it doesnt mean its not a fact.

Im from knockylon and i know of 2 innocent lads that didnt make their early 20s because they were murdered in seperate incidents. I nearly didnt make it myself only by luck im still here. Our murder rates are off the charts against the likes of Canada.

Nodin

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ah would you stop. These little fcukers would think nothing of spitting/ hitting/ abusing Guards so I would see it as a perk of the job being able to kick the crap out of them.

So when the family of a rape victim - to take an example - get told that nothing better happen to the alledged attacker its fine, because the law must be adhered to, but should the Gardai themselves take a dislike to some eejit, its fair enough for the posse to descend on them....Hmmmmm.

SoupyNorman

thelordofcheese wrote: »

No.

Justice is usually punishment delivered by a legitimate judicial system on behalf of all of society and with proper safeguards to try and prevent wrongfull sentancing
Revenge is kicking the **** out of someone because you've decided that you're word is law and they had it comming.

Do you see?

Well, what I see on a daily basis are sentences that make a mockery of the crimes. I do understand that it is the legislation and not the Judges in many instances but tbh, if ever I had a reason to exact revenge on someone the sentence I'd likely receive would not be much of a deterrent to stop me taking the revenge.

Do you see.

TheZohanS

Nodin wrote: »

If he did something wrong, why wasn't he arrested?

One night I was coming home from a niteclub and needed to have a pee, I found an nice little spot out of the way and decided to work away.

Cops came up behind me and told me to finish up and never do it again.

They could have arrested me but they didn't. Instead they gave me a stern talking to, I was polite and civil. I can assure you I'll never do it again.

Had I provoked them they might even have hit me a slap.


The gardai don't go around looking for trouble, if you treat them with respect they'll play ball with you. There are too many scumbags that think they're above the law, provoke the gardai and run off home crying to mammy when they react.

You can rest assured the scumbags in this case deserved what they got.

Nodin

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

. Our murder rates are off the charts against the likes of Canada.

Canada has near double the murder rate of Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate#cite_note-un8-52

TheZohan

TheZohan wrote: »

One night I was coming home from a niteclub and needed to have a pee, I found an nice little spot out of the way and decided to work away.

Cops came up behind me and told me to finish up and never do it again.

They could have arrested me but they didn't. Instead they gave me a stern talking to, I was polite and civil. I can assure you I'll never do it again.

Had I provoked them they might even have hit me a slap.


The gardai don't go around looking for trouble, if you treat them with respect they'll play ball with you. There are too many scumbags that think they're above the law, provoke the gardai and run off home crying to mammy when they react.

You can rest assured the scumbags in this case deserved what they got.

There are plenty of Gards who think they are above the law too, just because they enforce it

Degsy

Nodin wrote: »

So when the family of a rape victim - to take an example - get told that nothing better happen to the alledged attacker its fine, because the law must be adhered to, but should the Gardai themselves take a dislike to some eejit, its fair enough for the posse to descend on them....Hmmmmm.

What?

Nodin

TheZohan wrote: »

One night(.....)what they got.

They didn't give him a smack, he was treated in James. Three squad cars arrived at the house for one eejit, for something that wasn't worthy of arrest - doesn't that strike you as a bit OTT?

johnny_knoxvile

Nodin wrote: »

Canada has near double the murder rate of Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate#cite_note-un8-52

yeah, now. check the size and population, now compare that with the size and population of Dublin and Limerick.

easyeason3

Nodin wrote: »

So when the family of a rape victim - to take an example - get told that nothing better happen to the alledged attacker its fine, because the law must be adhered to, but should the Gardai themselves take a dislike to some eejit, its fair enough for the posse to descend on them....Hmmmmm.

Well I think that is something they have to say really isn't it? They can't say to you to go ahead & kick a few lumps off the alledged attacker. But would you complain if they gave the alledged attacker a few digs?

And I don't think it is as petty as taking a dislike to some eejit. I'm sure they had their reasons to do it other than to get their jollies for the day.

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

What?

In effect - 'If the law doesn't apply to the Gardai when it suits them, why shouldn't the ordinary citizen take the law into their own hands similarily.'

Degsy

Nodin wrote: »

They didn't give him a smack, he was treated in James. Three squad cars arrived at the house for one eejit, for something that wasn't worthy of arrest - doesn't that strike you as a bit OTT?

More than likely he injured himself whilst putting up a violent struggle.
I've seen the way these dirtbags lose the rag when they're cornered,foaming at the mouth and struggling like lunatics.
If he'd gone quietly,he wouldnt have got hurt and if he was innocent they wouldnt have been there in the first place!!!

TheZohanS

Nodin wrote: »

They didn't give him a smack, he was treated in James. Three squad cars arrived at the house for one eejit, for something that wasn't worthy of arrest - doesn't that strike you as a bit OTT?

Anyone can get treated in James. If I stubb my toe of the skirting board I can pop into A&E.

Nodin

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

yeah, now. check the size and population, now compare that with the size and population of Dublin and Limerick.

It's murders per 100,000 of population..........0.91 for us, 1.85 for them.

Degsy

Degsy wrote: »

More than likely he injured himself whilst putting up a violent struggle.
I've seen the way these dirtbags lose the rag when they're cornered,foaming at the mouth and struggling like lunatics.
If he'd gone quietly,he wouldnt have got hurt and if he was innocent they wouldnt have been there in the first place!!!

Gone quietly where? They weren't there to arrest him

TheZohanS

Nodin wrote: »

Three squad cars arrived at the house for one eejit, for something that wasn't worthy of arrest

And do you honestly think that three squad cars of gardai would put their careers on the line by attacking someone?

They knew who/what they were dealing with and took no chances.

deadhead13

The Gardai are paid to uphold the law, not break it. Having grey areas, like turning a blind eye to them kicking the crap out of a scumbag ultimately leads to incidents like the McBearty case in Donegal. The line gets blurred. The same sort attitudes lead us to having such poxy politicians as Haughy, Ahern..etc.

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

More than likely he injured himself whilst putting up a violent struggle.

Then why are they charging Gardai after nearly a years investigation?

And as they weren't arresting him, what would he be 'struggling' for?

Degsy wrote: »

I've seen(.....)lunatics..

Anecdotal nonsense.

Degsy wrote: »

If he'd gone quietly,he wouldnt have got hurt ..

Gone where? They made no attempt to arrest him.

Degsy wrote: »

and if he was innocent!!!

He was never charged with any crime.

TheZohan wrote:

Anyone can get treated in James. If I stubb my toe of the skirting board I can pop into A&E. ..

So therefore no-one with more serious injuries ever gets treated there?

javaboy

TheZohan wrote: »

One night I was coming home from a niteclub and needed to have a pee, I found an nice little spot out of the way and decided to work away.

Cops came up behind me and told me to finish up and never do it again.

They could have arrested me but they didn't. Instead they gave me a stern talking to, I was polite and civil. I can assure you I'll never do it again.

Had I provoked them they might even have hit me a slap.

Had you provoked them they could have arrested you instead of hitting you a slap. In fact they could have arrested you for what you were doing in the first place.

Instead the Garda took the sensible approach of not wasting his own time and taxpayer's money. You got a little scare and as you say won't do it again. It's a sign of common sense and good policing.

If he had slapped you around a bit, that's bad policing. You would have deserved it yes but how is anyone else to know you deserved it. And what if next time, the guy getting the slap didn't deserve it? It's a dangerous amount of leeway to give our law enforcers.

The gardai don't go around looking for trouble, if you treat them with respect they'll play ball with you. There are too many scumbags that think they're above the law, provoke the gardai and run off home crying to mammy when they react.

Dead right and I can understand how frustrating it must be for Gardaí who find the law working against them rather than for them but that doesn't mean they should take the law into their own hands.

You can rest assured the scumbags in this case deserved what they got.

Odds are they deserved it. But I don't want to live in a police state where the law enforcers aren't held to account. Blindly accepting that if the Gardaí beat someone up, they deserved it is a dangerous attitude.

There's no smoke without fire simply isn't good enough. If there was a case to answer, there should have been arrests not beatings.

ScumLord

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

just because you havent seen it doesnt mean its not a fact.

Im from knockylon and i know of 2 innocent lads that didnt make their early 20s because they were murdered in seperate incidents. I nearly didnt make it myself only by luck im still here. Our murder rates are off the charts against the likes of Canada.

It would be better to compare us to the rest of Europe. Just going by head of population isn't really perfect either. There is a tiny minority that's killing each other more than random people (even though I know they do kill random people too) it's also restricted to areas that have been abandoned by society.

Guards going around kicking their heads in isn't going to make them better people, it will just make things worse as they pull further and further away from society at large.

Everyone here is just advocating that we become as bad as them and turn it into a war of two sides, it's Ireland's failure as a whole that is causing these types of people to emerge. It's a problem that happened all over the world and we didn't do anything to prevent it happening here, even though we had the chance to.

TheZohanS

Nodin wrote: »

So therefore no-one with more serious injuries ever gets treated there?

My point is that anyone claim they are hurt and go to hospital, you don't have to be on deaths doorstep.

johnny_knoxvile

Nodin wrote: »

It's murders per 100,000 of population..........0.91 for us, 1.85 for them.

well i stand corrected. Hands up!

But i still believe or violent crime is out of control.

And i still dont believe the Courts serve proper justice.

thelordofcheese

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Well, what I see on a daily basis are sentences that make a mockery of the crimes.

Bullshit you do.
You see a few cases that make the papers due to being extraordinary in nature and have decided that everything has gone to hell and we need to go back to the good old da-rarr-rarr-rarr.

The media in general don't report the mundane, something tells me that a headline reading "victim happy with sentance delivered" wouldn't sell many copies.

Degsy

Its is my belief and my hope that the guards involved will be exhonerated.
A good beating is the only thing little cnunts understand
No doubt the scumbag is proceeding nicely with his criminal career and wont be getting away with stuff forever.
No doubt also the next time he commits a crime the victim can go and tell his mother as she's got a finely tuned moral compass.

Nodin

TheZohan wrote: »

And do you honestly think that three squad cars of gardai would put their careers on the line by attacking someone?

They knew who/what they were dealing with and took no chances.

Some them were probationers, from the article I linked earlier...

According to garda sources, no attempt to arrest the man who claims he was assaulted was made although a considerable number of uniformed gardai were inside the flat.
Senior gardai said that there has been growing concern in recent years that there has been little or no supervision for young officers serving in some of the toughest parts of the city.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nine-gardai-face-investigation-over-claim-of-serious-assault-1311598.html

You should also substantiate what inside knowledge you have regarding the 'danger' posed by this 19 year old, as the papers seem unaware of it.

Degsy

Nodin wrote: »

Some them were probationers, from the article I linked earlier...
.

Whats that got to do with anything?

Maybe he was also treated by student nurses for his horrific injuries in James'.

He was only a trainee criminal himself..

johnny_knoxvile

Scumlord i hear what you are saying. But you have criminals who have no fear of the courts or Gardaì, and a mainly unarmed police force that are not seeing any fruit for their labours in court.

Lugz had respect in Dublin 8, even from the criminals.