Gardaí to stand trial in connection with alleged assault on teenager

Nodin

TheZohan wrote: »

My point is that anyone claim they are hurt and go to hospital, you don't have to be on deaths doorstep.

No, but when its a matter of criminal investigation it means theres an independent record of what you were treated for and the extent of the injuries. If laughing boy had a cut lip and a bloody nose, or injuries that might have been self inflicted I doubt things would have gotten this far. He claimed to have been beaten with batons, which should be easy to prove or disprove.

Degsy wrote:

A good beating is the only thing little cnunts understand.

Yet violent crime was rampant in the era of punishment by violence.

Degsy wrote:

No doubt the scumbag is proceeding nicely with his criminal career and wont be getting away with stuff forever..

You've produced no evidence whatsoever to back up any of those assertions.

Degsy wrote:

No doubt also the next time he commits a crime..

He was never arrested or charged, so 'next time' is - based on the information available - speculation on your part.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

Its is my belief and my hope that the guards involved will be exhonerated.

So you don't think they broke the law?

The Gardaí have admitted they weren't there to arrest him and that he wasn't arrested. So what were they doing there? And if he did just start it for no reason and they were just defending themselves, why wasn't he subsequently arrested? It doesn't make sense.

I can accept that you might think he deserved it. That morally they were in the right. But how can you honestly not think they committed a crime based on what we've heard?

No doubt the scumbag is proceeding nicely with his criminal career and wont be getting away with stuff forever.
No doubt also the next time he commits a crime the victim can go and tell his mother as she's got a finely tuned moral compass.

Do you know that the 18 year old is a criminal? Please link to where that is published as fact.

ScumLord

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

Scumlord i hear what you are saying. But you have criminals who have no fear of the courts or Gardaì, and a mainly unarmed police force that are not seeing any fruit for their labours in court.

And that's never going to change if we keep going the way we're going. All we're doing is creating an atmosphere of us against them and they won't fear the courts because the court of the land is the enemy and it's their "duty" to fight the enemy.

Our laws and society as a whole is very out of date, we're still operating under very old laws that don't take modern understanding into account. We're swimming up river at the moment and we're not getting anywhere. It's a problem that's every where in this country we're stuck doing the same thing over and over even though we get the same failed results every time.

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

Whats that got to do with anything?..

That should be clear from the context.

Degsy wrote: »

Maybe he was also treated by student nurses for his horrific injuries in James'?

He would have to have been assessed by a Doctor. The exact extent of the injuries isn't known at this stage.

Degsy wrote: »

He was only a trainee criminal himself..

You've a source to back that up?

oppiuy

A few more coppers like that wouldn't go astray. Theres a few local tramps who have been given a gooh hiding the past couple of weeks out our way, for vandalism, breaking bottles intimidation etc. One notorious little **** had his arm broken and theres no sign of him around the place lately. The whole place has has quietened down and we can actually leave our bin out at nite without it being burnt or stolen now.
Rise of the vigilanty is at hand. Wish i had the balls to join them

Degsy

Nodin wrote: »

You've a source to back that up?

Yep.
The fact that he had three cop cars full of guards to talk to him.
Why do you think they were there then?

Go on tell me...

Degsy

Degsy wrote: »

Yep.
The fact that he had three cop cars full of guards to talk to him.
Why do you think they were there then?

Go on tell me...

Not to arrest him, that's obvious.

So why do you think they were there?

Degsy

Nodin wrote: »

He would have to have been assessed by a Doctor. The exact extent of the injuries isn't known at this stage.

Because he hasnt got any..if he had been actually hurt,his concerned mother would be parading his broken limbs,sutured face and missing teeth all over the place.
He wasnt hurt,him and his mother are looking for compo.

thelordofcheese

oppiuy wrote: »

Rise of the vigilanty is at hand.

I fucking hope not.

Degsy

Deleted User wrote: »

Not to arrest him, that's obvious.

So why do you think they were there?

To either
a)Serve a summons for criminal behaviour
or
b)Award him a medal for outstanding contribution to society.
perhaps the emotion of the situation got to him and he broke down.

Degsy

Degsy wrote: »

To either
a)Serve a summons for criminal behaviour
or
b)Award him a medal for outstanding contribution to society.
perhaps the emotion of the situation got to him and he broke down.

If you think this why are you calling the man a scumbag?:rolleyes:

Do you really think 3 squad cars full were there just to serve a summons?

Degsy

Deleted User wrote: »

If you think this why are you calling the man a scumbag?:rolleyes:

Do you really think 3 squad cars full were there just to serve a summons?

Well what exactly were they doing there?

Somebody tell me please.

SoupyNorman

javaboy wrote: »

Do you know that the 18 year old is a criminal? Please link to where that is published as fact.

Why does there need to be justification for Degsy's statement. He's making a damn fine educated assumption.

You seem to be preaching from a mighty high pedestal, sticking to the letter of the law in every facet of life is not feasible, especially so when you're dealing with scum...giving these people 'Due Process' is like giving them vouchers for freedom.

I dont particulary care whether the guards broke the law in this instance and I also commend them for their actions.

Degsy

If he wasnt a criminal,what were the guards doing there?

Somebody link to the fact that he wasnt a criminal.

SoupyNorman

There seems to be some fascination with guards being prosecuted, like they are supposed to be the perfect being when in fact they are like you, me and Degs (well not like Degs). Point of fact is that it’s usually off duty guards getting done for drink driving that end up in the courts. The scenario I picture from this case is 4guards arrive to question this individual and he goes fully fcuking mental, the guards being human react to the situation that was presented to them which was to subdue the individual.

Either that or it was the cast of Shaft serving their own cool style of provoked rough justice on preppy white boys.

deadhead13

Degsy wrote: »

If he wasnt a criminal,what were the guards doing there?

Innocent until proven guility? - which is for the courts to decide not the guards.

SoupyNorman

SoupyNorman wrote: »

There seems to be some fascination with guards being prosecuted, like they are supposed to be the perfect being when in fact they are like you, me and Degs (well not like Degs). Point of fact is that it’s usually off duty guards getting done for drink driving that end up in the courts. The scenario I picture from this case is 4guards arrive to question this individual and he goes fully fcuking mental, the guards being human react to the situation that was presented to them which was to subdue the individual.

Either that or it was the cast of Shaft serving their own cool style of provoked rough justice on preppy white boys.

Wasn't it actually 9 guards?
And if so, why would 9 guards show up to question one person?

SoupyNorman

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't it actually 9 guards?
And if so, why would 9 guards show up to question one person?

Read post numero uno.

Degsy

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't it actually 9 guards?
And if so, why would 9 guards show up to question one person?

Probaly because they knew he'd go mental and his family would start screaming and shouting and throwing things and obstructing the guards.

You know,maybe they'd been there before and they knew what to expect.

The fire brigade up my way wont go into dunsink lane without garda escort because the travellers attack them,so i'm sure the cops had an idea he wasnt the best behaved teenager in the world.

SoupyNorman

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Read post numero uno.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nine-gardai-face-investigation-over-claim-of-serious-assault-1311598.html

The Sunday Independent has learned that nine young uniformed gardai were present at the house in Basin Street flats on the night of February 17, having arrived in three squad cars.
It is understood that at least five uniformed gardai initially went inside the house though two others may have followed.

Degsy wrote: »

Probaly because they knew he'd go mental and his family would start screaming and shouting and throwing things and obstructing the guards.
You know,maybe they'd been there before and they knew what to expect.

The fire brigade up my way wont go into dunsink lane without garda escort because the travellers attack them,so i'm sure the cops had an idea he wasnt the best behaved teenager in the world.

Maybe your right, but what are 'his family' (so far I only know of the mother involved) obstructing the guards from doing?

tricky D

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't it actually 9 guards?
And if so, why would 9 guards show up to question one person?

They weren't there to question or arrest. The day before, the teenager and a garda had an altercation and the garda lost. So he goes back to the station and gets the lads and they call next day and beat the **** out of him. Nothing to do with justice, just revenge plain and simple. It's in the Indo article (among others).

The Gard probably didn't have any older brothers to do the job for him.

Nehaxak

They were there for nothing other than to give him a hiding, they gave him that, they broke the law and they got caught. They were investigated internally and found to be at fault and enough evidence provided to proceed to the courts.

We have enough thugs, criminals and scumbags in the country without having to put up with them in the Gardai also. The Garda should hold their integrity and professionalism up high and for all to see and for the country to be proud of them for that, NOT revert to thuggery, criminality and permit scumbags within their own ranks to flourish like this unpunished.
Those 4 garda are a disgrace to the force and the country and should be punished, at the very least they should be dismissed from the force for bringing it into disrepute by their behaviour and staining an otherwise good Garda force struggling to do their job on the meagre resources they have available to them.

There was and is no need for thugs, scumbags and criminal behaviour in the Garda, there never was and there should never be. If you cannot do your job as a Garda without reverting to criminality then you shouldn't be there in the first place and it begs the question as to why these Garda in question were permitted by the other Garda present to proceed in the way that they did in the first place. Those other Garda that were present should also at least be disciplined for not intervening and stopping the criminal behaviour of their fellow officers - if they did intervene then maybe this whole thing would not have happened and would not have gone this far to what can only be decribed as publicly humiliating the Gardai and bringing the force into disrepute.

Calibos

I often try the softly softly approach with local gangs first. ie. see can I befriend them, have them think I am 'Sound' so they don't act the bollix in our business at least. Over the years its been 50:50. ie. Half the time it doesn't work on a given gang. They'll mistake my being 'sound' with being soft. They soon learn that I am not a soft touch at all. On the other hand, half the time it does work. The lads think I am 'sound' calm down and don't act the bollix in my business and even when new lads link up with them and start acting the bollix, the others police themselves and tell them to cop on, and not to mess here, cause [My Name] is 'Sound'.

I remember one of the lads who I have a freindly relationship with who thinks I am 'Sound' came in one day worked up about something. I asked him what was up. He said he was stopped by the gardai on his way home with some nappies for his kid, (He was a 16yo dad) and they held him by the throat off the ground against a wall. Sounds totally unwarranted until I questioned him further and got the details. Firstly he was always in trouble with the law for this or that and was a known smalltime hash dealer.

Obviously they stopped him because they thought he might have had drugs on him. Rather than just accept that when you are a drug dealer you are going to be stopped by the Gaurds a lot, instead of 'grin and bear it' and show the gaurds you have nothing on you, instead he goes ape**** effing and blinding and calling the gaurds every name under the soon. He tells me this like he did nothing wrong and he was right to react that way but couldn't see how the gaurds were right to react the way they did. I don't know what goes through the minds of these little scrotes

In terms of the public pissing story I guarantee you that the lads that get a warning from the gaurds when caught doing this are the lads, who explin they were caught short, were bursting and were polite, appologetic and embarressed by being stopped by the gaurds. The prosecutions you hear about for pissing in Public?? I guarantee you everyone one of them are of lads who told the guard to eff off and shouldn't he be out catching 'real' criminals.

In terms of Gardai rough justice. I remember a story by a guy I know whos dad was the towns superintendent. Scumbags in one of the towns scumbag estates were really acting the bollix one night. The SI called in back up from the next town over and the guards headed up to the estate in numbers with strict instructions to 'Catch and release' like fishermen:D ie. catch the little f@ckers, a few digs or wacks in the legs with the batons, release them, catch them again...a few more belts with the baton. They knew there was no point arresting them but by golly did they get their just desserts while constantly 'escaping' from garda custody and resisting arrest. The estate was much quieter for months afterwards!

More of that please.

rotinaj

What actually happened was that one of the guards got into a fight in a pub with the "victim" on the previous night. The guard was off duty at the time.
The next day a few guards turn up at you mans house and give him a hiding.

thelordofcheese

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Why does there need to be justification for Degsy's statement. He's making a damn fine educated assumption.

No he isn't he's pulling shit out of his ass. A damn fine way for us to know he's not full of it would be to show something that backs up his assertion.
Otherwise he's just talking shit and he deserves to be called on it.

SoupyNorman wrote: »

You seem to be preaching from a mighty high pedestal, sticking to the letter of the law in every facet of life is not feasible, especially so when you're dealing with scum...giving these people 'Due Process' is like giving them vouchers for freedom.

Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, if you don't want due process for people you call scum, then you'd be fine with no such due process for yourself.

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I dont particulary care whether the guards broke the law in this instance and I also commend them for their actions.

Once again, if you're ok with them beating people in the street because you think they're scum, then you have no right to complain when they give you a beating.

SoupyNorman

thelordofcheese wrote: »

No he isn't he's pulling shit out of his ass. A damn fine way for us to know he's not full of it would be to show something that backs up his assertion.
Otherwise he's just talking shit and he deserves to be called on it.

Be that as it may, his $hit smells alot sweeter then yours.

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, if you don't want due process for people you call scum, then you'd be fine with no such due process for yourself.

I think you typed too fast here...proof your posts.

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Once again, if you're ok with them beating people in the street because you think they're scum, then you have no right to complain when they give you a beating.

Are you somewhat implying that I am scum?, I have an honors degree good sir and I enjoy a righteous game of Polo followed by tea in the afternoons...me, scum? tisk tisk.

Nina Colada

Tom65 wrote: »

:eek:

Guards should be able to do whatever they like??
ah here.. genuinely you cant be serious!
this is the reason there as so many corrupt guards round these day's

thelordofcheese

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Be that as it may, his $hit smells alot sweeter then yours.

That's only because it's the kind you seem to swallow.

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I think you typed too fast here...proof your posts.

No, learn to read. It's perfectly simple.

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Are you somewhat implying that I am scum?, I have an honors degree good sir and I enjoy a righteous game of Polo followed by tea in the afternoons...me, scum? tisk tisk.

Let me make this easier on you.
Let's say i'm a member of the Gardai and you... well, you're still you.

I've decided that you're scum. The metrics of why i think you're scum are known only to me, and because you're scum it's back alley justice for you.
So, with no accountability, I'm going to beat you, and you deserve it because i think you're scum.

Huzzah! The system works!

carradonna

My take on it is that the guards were wrong and foolish to do what they did. I have no doubt that the assaulted teenager was no angel but still no excuse.
In a way I can understand how something like this may have happened, gardai working hard trying to take scum off the street only to be greeted by a justice system which is failing them and the rest of the country. It must be particularly frustrating for gardai. Still no excuse, but gardai are human and will make mistakes.
One thing that is slightly annoying in this thread is people quoting newspaper articles as fact, if its written in the newspaper doesn't mean its true. Journalists write opinions and throw in an old from a garda source the whole time makes the article a bit more sensational. The independent says it understands 9 guards were there, then why are 9 not being prosecuted?

SoupyNorman

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Let me make this easier on you.
Let's say i'm a member of the Gardai and you... well, you're still you.

I've decided that you're scum. The metrics of why i think you're scum are known only to me, and because you're scum it's back alley justice for you.
So, with no accountability, I'm going to beat you, and you deserve it because i think you're scum.

Huzzah! The system works!

Lets say you were on your own? I'd end you, end of story, FYI.




Srsly though, there was a lively, healthy debate going on here. Then you arrived and brought an air of aggression to the proceedings, we COULD spend the night volleying posts back and forth I seem to be the calm one here so tell ya what, go get the radox (muscle soak), light some candles and slunk down into a pipng hot bath...let all your aggression just melt away. Then come back and post a little in the cuckoo nest and tomorrow you'll be ready to champion a new day.