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Gardaí to stand trial in connection with alleged assault on teenager

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭carlop


    The problem is that it's not that simple to categorise someone as scum or not as scum, and it is also not a guarantee that someone who acted the bollix a bit when they were younger won't grow out of it.

    I fully agree that there are some horrible people out there who live a life dedicated to violent crime and who often receive sentences that I perceive to be too soft. But that is my perception from the outside, without any in-depth knowledge of the case. I am not a legal expert, and that is why I am not a judge. The gardai are also not legal experts, and that is why they are not judges. They are not qualified to independently decide on someone's guilt and the appropriate punishment they receive, much like a 60-year old judge isn't qualified to go out policing the street.

    In an ideal world, everybody who is 'good' would live a nice, peaceful life, and everyone who is 'bad' would be locked up. However, these are not such easy black-and-white distinctions to make.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    You can't seriously be equating several members of An Garda Síochána taking on a single man in an unlawful manner with "feeling frustrated" to justify it? If they actually did the actions of which they're accused then they're a disgrace to the force.

    Considering I was quoting someone else, no I don't.

    Italics and "" not enough to make that clear?


    Regardless, I see the rabble rabble brigade have had a bit of kip, and are up for another round of fresh BS spouting. Keep it up sure, vent your rage on the internet, no matter how idiotic it is, it will be here for you to rant on when you get a few digs from a garda on a night out also, don't expect much sympathy though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭stephens770


    I think that this is disgraceful. 4 Gardai should not have to stand trial for giving a person from a lower social ecconomic group an alleged hideing. It's just not right. The Gards should be able to do what ever they like.


    From Breaking news.ie
    Four gardaí will stand trial after allegedly assaulting a teenager, a court heard today.

    Garda Alan Conlon, Garda Claire Delaney, Garda Eoin Murtagh and Garda Sean O’Leary, who are all based in Dublin city centre, have been charged with assault causing harm and forcible entry.

    Three of the accused are also charged with false imprisonment.

    The charges relate to an incident at Basin Street flats in the south inner city on February 17, 2008 where the teenager’s mother alleged her son was attacked and a complaint was later made to the Garda Ombudsman.

    All four appeared briefly before Dublin District Court, where they were served with the Book of Evidence.

    Judge Eamon O’Brien, who sent the defendants forward for trial at the next sitting of Dublin’s Circuit Criminal Court in June, ordered the addresses of the gardai not to be disclosed.

    [/quote
    they do do what ever they like tho


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    I think that this is disgraceful. 4 Gardai should not have to stand trial for giving a person from a lower social ecconomic group an alleged hideing. It's just not right. The Gards should be able to do what ever they like.


    From Breaking news.ie
    Four gardaí will stand trial after allegedly assaulting a teenager, a court heard today.

    Garda Alan Conlon, Garda Claire Delaney, Garda Eoin Murtagh and Garda Sean O’Leary, who are all based in Dublin city centre, have been charged with assault causing harm and forcible entry.

    Three of the accused are also charged with false imprisonment.

    The charges relate to an incident at Basin Street flats in the south inner city on February 17, 2008 where the teenager’s mother alleged her son was attacked and a complaint was later made to the Garda Ombudsman.

    All four appeared briefly before Dublin District Court, where they were served with the Book of Evidence.

    Judge Eamon O’Brien, who sent the defendants forward for trial at the next sitting of Dublin’s Circuit Criminal Court in June, ordered the addresses of the gardai not to be disclosed.

    [/quote
    they do do what ever they like tho



    Well, this is pretty much the biggest all round /FAIL I've seen in a while.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭stephens770


    its the gards that do this that deserve to be fired theres plenty of gards that just turn the other cheek if a scumbag shouted abuse or said anything that type of gard in every station and the gards would get a more positive response when out on duty,anyone thinking someone just doesnt like the gards for nothing is no better than the gards that do this,scumbags are scumbags because people like those gards made them


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭stephens770


    Well, this is pretty much the biggest all round /FAIL I've seen in a while.


    yes haha so hyped up on getting the scumbag they didnt even think or plan it the pea brains,i think they just let anyone into the gards these days with a hate for lower class people,i mean there wouldnt be a lower class area at all if there were no people like those gards


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭stephens770


    Degsy wrote: »
    He wanted to play big boys games but not by big boys rules.
    He got a beating and went whinging to report it,he wanted his cake and to be able to eat it too.

    My 50 euro wager still stands by the way although if you havnt got the money,butter vouchers will be accepted.


    he played big boys games and the competition couldnt take the loss, so gave him an unfair beating ,cowards,the gard could have atleast offered a one on one off duty like most gards do,if a gard tackles you and rips his trousers its assualt,there the ones that cant play the games they have to bend the rules and cheat,as in bending the rules and breaking the law to do there job properly because there mostly incapable of doin so using there head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭the immortals


    what the guards did was wrong pure and simple, but the thought of mr scumbag getting a good hiding pleases me no end...............


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭stephens770


    i agree to a point because this country is out of control with violent thugs, who dont fear the justice system.

    But in this case, its pure stupidity on the part of the Gardaì.

    errr no,,i smell a grudge


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    its the gards that do this that deserve to be fired theres plenty of gards that just turn the other cheek if a scumbag shouted abuse or said anything that type of gard in every station and the gards would get a more positive response when out on duty,anyone thinking someone just doesnt like the gards for nothing is no better than the gards that do this,scumbags are scumbags because people like those gards made them

    I'd say they hate the guards because they arrest them for committing crimes and running amok antisocial style. The bastards. I mean, come on. Guards make scumbags.... Jeeeesus.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Degsy wrote: »
    Yep,the "why wasnt he arrested" bit is starting to wear a bit thin.
    He got beaten up for assaulting a guard and then he ran off to the guards to make a complaint like the weasel he is.
    As for ways of dealing with these people,this guy has the right idea
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

    Perhaps if you answered it without resorting to pointless, rabble rousing rhetoric and making accusations, people would stop asking.

    And "why where there so many gards there? Because he had to be evil" is not an answer, it is circular logic.

    If for any reason- including a fight the night before that had not been dealt with appropriately through a legal system the Gardai was obviously ignoring, as you seem to think it is- it doesn't explain why so many Gardai showed up. the fact they all decided to give this guy a hiding doesn't mean that it was right to give him a hiding, it just means they decided to give him a hiding. Regardless of whether he is a toe rag or not.


    TBH dude, Nodin is giving arguments, links, figures, and backing up his claims. You're just throwing out tired rhetoric.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    What exactly did this teenager do that warranted a beating? Does anybody know and have proof to back up the said claims?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭destroyer


    A guard doing it ,is doing a 'nixer' for society...to me I dont care that is against the law because they have our best interests at heart...they are on our team.

    How come its always brattish teenagers the 'nixer' for society is done on?, Why dont they do it to say Keane, Collopy, Dundon crowd or say Martin Cahill years ago when half the force followed him around for months but never touched him?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    SDooM wrote: »

    TBH dude, Nodin is giving arguments, links, figures, and backing up his claims. You're just throwing out tired rhetoric.

    Meh.
    I'm allowed to have my opinion and i more than covered myself by posting a link to why the cops wanted to give this bloke a beating.
    Your good friend Nodin rapidly went from "he didnt do anything wrong,ever" to "well yeah,we shouldnt judge people by thier deeds except in the case of cops beating people up".
    Your opinion is that nodin is right therefore you are wrong,in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭destroyer


    I agree with cops beating up wrongdoers so long as its across the board and all wrongdoers get a beating, and the severity of the beating is proportional to the seriousness of the crime.
    So as soon as I see unmerciful beatings handed out to drug lords, paramilitaries and the like, I will agree with giving scumbag teenagers a few clatters.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    destroyer wrote: »
    A guard doing it ,is doing a 'nixer' for society...to me I dont care that is against the law because they have our best interests at heart...they are on our team.

    How come its always brattish teenagers the 'nixer' for society is done on?, Why dont they do it to say Keane, Collopy, Dundon crowd or say Martin Cahill years ago when half the force followed him around for months but never touched him?

    Thats what we used to have paramiltaries for.

    If some kids these days had gotten a "warning" or two off the "boys" they wouldnt be racking up 30 or 40 convictions by the age of 16.
    The fact is that modern scumbags are afraid of nothing because the worst that can happen to them is a bit of time inside,alongside thier friends,families and heroes..they have whole neighbourhoods afraid to speak out for fear of reprisals and i say fcuck them...a hiding will do them the world of good,and throw them out of thier corpo housing as well.
    If they cant live like decent members of society they shouldnt be benefiting from society.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Degsy wrote: »
    Meh.
    I'm allowed to have my opinion and i more than covered myself by posting a link to why the cops wanted to give this bloke a beating.
    Your good friend Nodin rapidly went from "he didnt do anything wrong,ever" to "well yeah,we shouldnt judge people by thier deeds except in the case of cops beating people up".
    Your opinion is that nodin is right therefore you are wrong,in my opinion.

    My opinion in that case, is that you are an orange teapot orbiting Saturn. A deeply wrong teapot.

    your opinion, unless backed with figures, is worth the same as mine.

    You link doesn't absolve a thing they did. I pointed out they still ignored process and decided to give him a hiding. Your only answer to this is circular logic, never dealing with the issues at hand and resorting to "He IS a scumbag, so he deserved it" (which isn't even true, no one deserves to be at the mercy of another without recourse- and yes I believe this should apply more stringently to lawbreakers... but ALL lawbreakers. Including Gardai.)

    You have opinion, he has facts. This is a discussion forum. Facts count.

    Oh and nodins no one I have ever ran into, it's just he's playing a blinder on this thread. If you can't see that...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Degsy wrote: »
    Meh.

    Your good friend Nodin rapidly went from "he didnt do anything wrong,ever" to "well yeah,we shouldnt judge people by thier deeds except in the case of cops beating people up".
    .

    Where did I ever say either of those things? A link to the post please.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Degsy wrote: »

    Thats what we used to have paramiltaries for.


    Ah, now I get it, you're joking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Its a complex issue. No doubt you can't turn a blind eye to the Garda breaking the law. At the same time, you can't turn a blind eye to the scum thats polluting our cities with their pure apathy towards their fellow man. I agree that there is little justice served, I also disagree that we should let the Garda break the law. What we need, is to balance the law so that it better serves the innocent of our society. If that means introducing public flogging or some such, I don't really mind. I have witnessed too many criminal activities, which really cause misery to communities go practically unpunished. There is one guy on my road who seems to own a Garda car, judging by how often one is parked outside his house. He's a repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat....... offender. Be it vandalism, assault, theft etc. Is it any wonder that people are frustrated, and demanding something outside of the system be done. I have friends who live in Michaels Estate Inchicore. The stories I could tell you..... The system is a failure, and the whole attitude of some of the 'Why wasn't he arrested' brigade only add to the frustration. You can harp on about links being provided or 'evidence' etc. The reality is though, that so many quite categorically see 'in real life', that so many scum bags get off scott free. Whether thats lazy Garda, or the system or whatever, you decide. However, don't think its not real just because the issue is anecdotal. They are 'real' experiences of many, many people. Degsy's story about the bus window is a classic example. I've seen the very same thing happen. Its like passing by a group of junkies openly dealing their heroin by Tara street, or on the liffey boardwalk in plain sight shamelessly. Then seeing a busker on grafton street getting shoved on by 3 Garda. Something is not right! No links or arguement is going to change my mind on what I 'see' on a 'daily' basis.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    SDooM wrote: »
    Ah, now I get it, you're joking.

    Thing is, there is a big consensus growing among alot of people about this. That is a problem. The last thing we need is 'The Rá', yet because the system is failing so many folk, this type of thought can become popular. rather than being dismissive about it, it should make us realise how people are feeling, and do something about it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    SDooM wrote: »
    IS a scumbag, so he deserved it" (which isn't even true, no one deserves to be at the mercy of another without recourse-

    Well thats what scumabgs are inflicting on people every day all over the country.
    Where's the "recourse" to thier victims?
    The courts..where they're allowed out on the streets time after time and sit there smirking at the victims?
    Mountjoy..where the taxpayer pays for them to have a few months holiday perfecting thier criminal skills with people they grew up with?
    Its not working...you and nodin can ask for links and "facts" all you want but the facts speak for themselves..Crime is out of control and prison is no deterent.
    I sometimes wonder have certain people ever visited the real world..:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Kernel wrote: »
    Degsy is a legend. Spot on mate.

    The people want and need a Lugs approach. Current Criminal Justice System is broken. Maybe the liberals should spend some time speaking with the normal folk and see how many of them will ask for more Lugs. Liberal PC brigade have ruined this country at this stage and the right wing politics will move up in popularity as a resulting backlash.

    On topic - hell, I've even spoken to people and read about people who where on the receiving end of a few Lugs Brannigan whacks, and they have nothing but admiration and respect for the man.

    Some are thankful for the clip round the ear and the boot in the arse for putting them on the straight and narrow.

    This is for you, and Degsy.

    Replace Lugs Brannigan and AGS giving out beatings with the Provisional IRA and punishment beating, then replace our justice system with kangaroo Courts - does that take you out of your comfort zone?.

    Because the former is what your advocating.

    I agree that our justice system is a complete cluster fvck, but if your old enough to remember the alternative - its a no brainer.

    Personally I think your living some kind of romantasized bullsh*t fancy.

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭stephens770


    Kernel wrote: »
    I'd say they hate the guards because they arrest them for committing crimes and running amok antisocial style. The bastards. I mean, come on. Guards make scumbags.... Jeeeesus.


    if uv read it properly i said people that think like those gards make scumbags, not gards in particular,its like saying just because someone lives in a lower class there a scumbag,thats what i mean. people that label people they dont know make scumbags,people that youd class as not a scumbag probably does more crimes than car theft,petty theiving,and assault,try put that up to the buisness men and solicitors bank managers,ripping people off money pulling scams ****ing peoples lives up,i wouldnt call them scumbags but the crimes are far worse,and cause much more drastic effect,its the people running everything that are ****ing it up,the gards,the council etc


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    This is for you, and Degsy.

    Replace Lugs Brannigan and AGS giving out beatings with the Provisional IRA and punishment beating, then replace our justice system with kangaroo Courts - does that take you out of your comfort zone?.

    Because the former is what your advocating.

    I agree that our justice system is a complete cluster fvck, but if your old enough to remember the alternative - its a no brainer.

    Personally I think your living some kind of romantasized bullsh*t fancy.

    .


    I know my fair share about the "alternatives" and the fact is that the current upsurge in scumbaggery is a direct result of the peace process.
    Make of that whatever you will.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Degsy wrote: »
    Well thats what scumabgs are inflicting on people every day all over the country.
    Where's the "recourse" to thier victims?

    Rabble, rabble, rabble....
    Degsy wrote: »
    The (.....)king...

    As above.
    Degsy wrote: »
    you and nodin can ask for links and "facts" all you want...

    ...on every subject, every generalisation, every presumption. Its what seperates us from a mindless supersitious lynch mob.

    Wheres the link to where I stated what you claimed.....?
    Degsy wrote: »
    but the facts speak for themselves....

    And thus moving to the general, to justify the specific.
    Degsy wrote: »
    .Crime is out of control and prison is no deterent.....

    Is this a movie trailer?

    'One Man Has The Answer. He is......The Blamer'


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭destroyer


    Degsy wrote: »
    destroyer wrote: »

    Thats what we used to have paramiltaries for.

    If some kids these days had gotten a "warning" or two off the "boys" they wouldnt be racking up 30 or 40 convictions by the age of 16.
    The fact is that modern scumbags are afraid of nothing because the worst that can happen to them is a bit of time inside,alongside thier friends,families and heroes..they have whole neighbourhoods afraid to speak out for fear of reprisals and i say fcuck them...a hiding will do them the world of good,and throw them out of thier corpo housing as well.
    If they cant live like decent members of society they shouldnt be benefiting from society.


    You are living in a fantasy land Degsy.
    You are implying that these "scumbags" will now behave because the guards beat them up,that they'll be afraid?
    No they'll just have a knife or a gun the next time and know they'll be left alone to do what they like.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    if uv read it properly i said people that think like those gards make scumbags, not gards in particular,its like saying just because someone lives in a lower class there a scumbag,thats what i mean. people that label people they dont know make scumbags,people that youd class as not a scumbag probably does more crimes than car theft,petty theiving,and assault,try put that up to the buisness men and solicitors bank managers,ripping people off money pulling scams ****ing peoples lives up,i wouldnt call them scumbags but the crimes are far worse,and cause much more drastic effect,its the people running everything that are ****ing it up,the gards,the council etc

    Yeh, but I'm telling you that I've personally spoken to people who were on the receiving end of a few clatters from Lugs Brannigan, and they are thankful for it. If you don't want to believe my anecdotes then I can direct you to books where primary sources talk about Lugs, and credit him with keeping law and order and steering them away from crime. We are talking tenement days, so disadvantaged youth ****e doesn't wash there.
    This is for you, and Degsy.

    Replace Lugs Brannigan and AGS giving out beatings with the Provisional IRA and punishment beating, then replace our justice system with kangaroo Courts - does that take you out of your comfort zone?.

    Because the former is what your advocating.

    That's not correct Mairt. The provos are an unlawful organisation. AGS are a lawful organisation with the mission to uphold the law and protect the peace of the ordinary law abiding people of Ireland. Guards are legally allowed to use force at certain times, as doing the job would be impossible otherwise.

    We have gotten into a situation where use of force against criminals can result in guards being charged as criminals, investigated by the Ombudsman, sacked etc. etc. And all for trying to helping the weak to walk the streets without fear of molestation. Our system has neutered the law enforcement in this country. It doesn't happen on the continent, and harsher methods are required nowadays. The system has been in use since Lugs died, and it's only getting worse around the place as I can see it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kernel wrote: »

    We have gotten into a situation where use of force against criminals can result in guards being charged as criminals, investigated by the Ombudsman, sacked etc. etc. And all for trying to helping the weak to walk the streets without fear of molestation.

    ...none of which is applicable in this particular case.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...none of which is applicable in this particular case.


    You're trying to sound like a solicitor or something now...the barstool legal expert!
    ..how do you know so much about the "facts" of this case?
    Apart,that is from googling the names of the guards(thats how I came up with the information that the bloke had assaulted a guard...remember when you said he hadnt actually done anything?)


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