European Election Profiler

TristanPeter

I don't know if this has already been put up on Boards, or not. I can't see it so here's a link to an online profiler re. political parties.

I thought it was good. Takes 5 minutes only.

http://www.euprofiler.eu/

PopeBuckfastXVI

Cool link! Apparently I'm closest to the Danish Social Democrats!

P. Breathnach

I don't take these things too seriously, but I had some time to waste, and went through it. It places me very close to the party I am likely to vote for in the forthcoming polls.

How do they know where Libertas, the policy-free party, stands?

Dob74

TristanPeter wrote: »

I don't know if this has already been put up on Boards, or not. I can't see it so here's a link to an online profiler re. political parties.

I thought it was good. Takes 5 minutes only.

http://www.euprofiler.eu/

Very interesting.
What amazed me is that nearly all our main politial parties want Turkey in the EU.
Definately voting no to Lisbon next time out.

molloyjh

Apparently I'm pretty much in between the Greens Labour and FG/FF. Pretty much where I though I was really. Pro-EU left of centre.

P. Breathnach

Dob74 wrote: »

Very interesting.
What amazed me is that nearly all our main politial parties want Turkey in the EU.
Definately voting no to Lisbon next time out.

Why?

Dob74

We have seen the influx of eastern europeans over the last 5 years.
I would hate to imagine what will happen when they let 100 million Turks in.
Our immigration policy is a joke. We are issueing 100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising.
An irish government will never have the courage to take on such a difficult issue.
The special interest groups will win out, while the silent majority get squeezed.

Manach

It seems I'm fairly close to the DUP policies .... mmm.

P. Breathnach

Dob74 wrote: »

... The special interest groups will win out, while the silent majority get squeezed.

So you reckon that the silent majority are xenophobes.

Funny: it looks to me as if the xenophobes in Ireland are far from being silent.

molloyjh

Dob74 wrote: »

We have seen the influx of eastern europeans over the last 5 years.
I would hate to imagine what will happen when they let 100 million Turks in.
Our immigration policy is a joke. We are issueing 100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising.
An irish government will never have the courage to take on such a difficult issue.
The special interest groups will win out, while the silent majority get squeezed.

Yes how dare people from other countries come here looking for work. It's not like the Irish have ever done that! :rolleyes:

Unemployment has only been rising for the last year so I'm not sure how you've arrived at your "100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising". It also begs the question that if we were in fact doing that, why is it that the jobs exist in the first place for them to take? Why aren't they being filled by the unemployed Irish?

The simple fact of that matter is that as members of the EU we are free to work in any EU country we choose. And many Irish have indeed moved abroad to do so. I know a good few myself who have. Who are we to take advantage of that and deny it to others when it doesn't suit us? Would you be in favour of kicking some of those "leeching" member states out of the EU to "rectify" the issue? If so please bear in mind that Ireland is still a net benefactor of the EU and as such we have been "leeching" from other member states for decades now.

Dob74

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So you reckon that the silent majority are xenophobes.

Funny: it looks to me as if the xenophobes in Ireland are far from being silent.

Oh what a surprise if you are not in favour of mass immigration you are racist.
Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

Dob74

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes how dare people from other countries come here looking for work. It's not like the Irish have ever done that! :rolleyes:

Unemployment has only been rising for the last year so I'm not sure how you've arrived at your "100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising". It also begs the question that if we were in fact doing that, why is it that the jobs exist in the first place for them to take? Why aren't they being filled by the unemployed Irish?

The simple fact of that matter is that as members of the EU we are free to work in any EU country we choose. And many Irish have indeed moved abroad to do so. I know a good few myself who have. Who are we to take advantage of that and deny it to others when it doesn't suit us? Would you be in favour of kicking some of those "leeching" member states out of the EU to "rectify" the issue? If so please bear in mind that Ireland is still a net benefactor of the EU and as such we have been "leeching" from other member states for decades now.

Sweden, the UK and ireland are the only countries that allowed free movement of labour.
Our economy has been burning money that didn't exsist for the last few years. So most of the jobs that where filled are now gone. But the people that are hear wont be leaving so why let more immigrats in now when they are not needed.
In feb 15k pps numbers where issued. 7.5 to irish and 7.5 to non irish.
If we cant tighten up the laws now what chance do we have.

We got plenty of money from europe but we also gave away our fishing rights.
There's no such thing as a free lunch

P. Breathnach

Dob74 wrote: »

Oh what a surprise if you are not in favour of mass immigration you are racist.
Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

I didn't bring race into it. I mentioned xenophobia, and it's not the same thing.

If you want to advocate anti-immigration policies, you need to learn the appropriate vocabulary.

[Interesting fact: immigrants are foreigners.]

TristanPeter

My profile pretty much matched Fine Gael polocies (according to this profiler at least) which I find kind of strange. I never liked them, especially Enda Kenny. I'll have to put more thought into my own preferences but I know one thing for sure, I will never ever ever vote for Fiana Fail I do like the idea of George Lee getting into polotics, so maybe Fine Gael aren't as bad as I thought

Scofflaw

Dob74 wrote: »

Sweden, the UK and ireland are the only countries that allowed free movement of labour.
Our economy has been burning money that didn't exsist for the last few years. So most of the jobs that where filled are now gone. But the people that are hear wont be leaving so why let more immigrats in now when they are not needed.
In feb 15k pps numbers where issued. 7.5 to irish and 7.5 to non irish.
If we cant tighten up the laws now what chance do we have.

We got plenty of money from europe but we also gave away our fishing rights.
There's no such thing as a free lunch

I wouldn't be pinning anything on the value of those fishing rights. Here's a year by year breakdown of the value of fish taken from all Irish waters since 1950:

Year|Ireland $m|Total $m|Ireland %
1950|12.03|114.76|10.48
1951|9.79|126.02|7.77
1952|14.37|137.31|10.47
1953|15.53|161.8|9.6
1954|14.84|156.17|9.5
1955|19.48|204.98|9.51
1956|18.43|192.01|9.6
1957|16.12|173.07|9.31
1958|21.31|196.32|10.86
1959|23.26|192.53|12.08
1960|21.17|224.85|9.42
1961|20.99|173.4|12.11
1962|21.45|206.04|10.41
1963|22.19|204.57|10.85
1964|22.24|202.82|10.97
1965|23.67|242.14|9.78
1966|29.2|271.49|10.76
1967|30.22|204.48|14.78
1968|31.86|234.65|13.58
1969|36.71|270.85|13.55
1970|43.58|289.11|15.07
1971|44.78|321.16|13.94
1972|58.09|325.64|17.84
Pre-EU|571.35|4826.18|11.84
1973|34.86|382.97|9.1
1974|31.87|407.3|7.83
1975|31.29|498.92|6.27
1976|39.29|552.45|7.11
1977|36.39|212.24|17.15
1978|40.09|190.57|21.03
1979|43.43|194.87|22.29
1980|55.48|198.94|27.89
1981|67.49|282.45|23.89
1982|79.71|290.79|27.41
1983|77.27|291.71|26.49
1984|75.95|305.95|24.83
1985|85.94|283.52|30.31
1986|85.47|309.98|27.57
1987|99.72|338.55|29.46
1988|100.26|353.05|28.4
1989|104.36|385.37|27.08
1990|102.87|356.73|28.84
1991|105.09|322.46|32.59
1992|153.25|401.76|38.14
1993|155.2|422.27|36.75
1994|138.49|409.89|33.79
1995|157.79|449.13|35.13
1996|141.47|408.22|34.66
1997|168.29|494.45|34.04
1998|216.86|533.76|40.63
1999|204.95|477.45|42.93
2000|153.12|411.32|37.23
2001|160.66|417.19|38.51
2002|154.32|412.71|37.39
2003|191.39|475.73|40.23
2004|198.02|460.42|43.01
EU|3490.65|11933.11|29.25


We got a worse deal out of Irish waters before we joined the EU than after, and the whole value of fish landed since we joined the EU is $12bn (US 2000 dollars). The research is by a US academic project (the Sea Around Us Project), hence the values in dollars.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

cordially,
Scofflaw

sparklepants

TristanPeter wrote: »

My profile pretty much matched Fine Gael polocies (according to this profiler at least) which I find kind of strange. I never liked them, especially Enda Kenny. I'll have to put more thought into my own preferences but I know one thing for sure, I will never ever ever vote for Fiana Fail I do like the idea of George Lee getting into polotics, so maybe Fine Gael aren't as bad as I thought

Looks like FG policies most closely match my views also. Maybe it's a case of FG formulating policies that will appeal to the broadest possible section of the cummunity - which isn't a bad thing. Of course, it's one thing saying that you're commited to a "green" economy, for instance. Putting that policy into action when you get the chance is quite another.

Hitman Actual

Scofflaw wrote: »

We got a worse deal out of Irish waters before we joined the EU than after, and the whole value of fish landed since we joined the EU is $12bn (US 2000 dollars). The research is by a US academic project (the Sea Around Us Project), hence the values in dollars.

Finally, a well researched website on fishing levels. What I find especially interesting is that France were fishing as much as 6 times the value out of our waters as we were before we joined the EU. It's only really since 1980 that we seem to have been catching up and getting our proper 'share'.

Agent Smith

1. Partija "Frontas" 83,3%
2. Tėvynės sąjunga - Lietuvos krikščionys demokratai 81,3%
3. Evropská demokratická strana 81,3%
4. Sabiedrība Citai Politikai 81,3%
5. Fine Gael 80,6%

O'Morris

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

P. Breathnach

O'Morris wrote: »

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

Are we now discussing the xenophobic vote for Libertas?

I'm xenophobic-phobic.

nesf

Hah, it put me closest to Labour percentage wise because it made the standard mistake of these tests in overstating my concern for social issues over economic ones despite me being very far away on the Socioeconomic right in the main result plot.

sink

nesf wrote: »

Hah, it put me closest to Labour percentage wise because it made the standard mistake of these tests in overstating my concern for social issues over economic ones despite me being very far away on the Socioeconomic right in the main result plot.

Apparently I'm also closest to Labour yet I'm almost completely opposite to them on economic issues.

View

O'Morris wrote: »

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

Just to clarify for you - if you're refering to Raymond O'Malley's call - the European Parliament has zero right to do anything negative about EU citizens exercising their right to free movement within the EU. His call is the equivalent of a local councillor candidate in Sligo calling for a halt to the "immigration" of people from Meath to Sligo. Total BS, in other words.

molloyjh

O'Morris wrote: »

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

Libertas don't "stand" anywhere on anything. They hop around a lot depending on what will get them a few extra votes and a bit of attention. If memory serves they were pro mass immigration this time 12 months ago. Just look at their stance on a number of issues in the few countries they have representatives. In a number of cases they are in direct opposition to each other. This is not an ideaological party, unless Ganley-ism is an ideaology.

View wrote: »

Just to clarify for you - if you're refering to Raymond O'Malley's call - the European Parliament has zero right to do anything negative about EU citizens exercising their right to free movement within the EU. His call is the equivalent of a local councillor candidate in Sligo calling for a halt to the "immigration" of people from Meath to Sligo. Total BS, in other words.

This wouldn't be the only example of Libertas candidates claiming they can and will do something that they can't. Caroline Simmons will apparently sort out the Health Service and e-voting in Ireland from the EP.

djpbarry

Dob74 wrote: »

We have seen the influx of eastern europeans over the last 5 years.
I would hate to imagine what will happen when they let 100 million Turks in.

Dob74 wrote: »

Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

:rolleyes:

Dob74 wrote: »

In feb 15k pps numbers where issued. 7.5 to irish and 7.5 to non irish.

Number of PPS numbers issued is not a very reliable indicator of immigration.

O'Morris

P. Breathnach wrote:

Are we now discussing the xenophobic vote for Libertas?

I'm xenophobic-phobic.

And I believe that immigration into Ireland is too high and that it's time for our politicians to do something to reduce it. Would I be right in thinking that that is enough to make me a xenophobe in your eyes?

View wrote:

Just to clarify for you - if you're refering to Raymond O'Malley's call - the European Parliament has zero right to do anything negative about EU citizens exercising their right to free movement within the EU.

Even if our democratically elected representatives in the European parliament are powerless to do anything about immigration they can still represent the views of their constituents on the issue in the parliament. If they ally with like-minded MEPs in Brussels they can form a bloc in the parliament that might become a powerful force for reform. If the choice in any constituency is between two relatively competent candidates, I think the one that best represents the majority on immigration will stand a better chance of winning the votes of the undecided.

I'm sure Libertas is as reluctant to face up to the problem of mass immigration as any of the other parties. If they start slipping in the polls near the end though I can see them using the issue of immigration as a trump card. At this stage I think any party that stands up and honestly represents the majority discontent on mass immigration will be guaranteed of a strong showing on election day. With that in mind, and with these latest comments by one of their candidates, I think Libertas is very likely at do well in the European elections.

View wrote:

His call is the equivalent of a local councillor candidate in Sligo calling for a halt to the "immigration" of people from Meath to Sligo. Total BS, in other words.

Sligo and Meath are part of the same country. Ireland and Poland are not part of the same country.

molloyjh wrote:

Libertas don't "stand" anywhere on anything. They hop around a lot depending on what will get them a few extra votes and a bit of attention.

I've no doubt that's true. I think there are a lot of votes and a lot of attention to be gained in facing up to the problems of immigration. That's why I've a strong feeling that they will use the issue a trump card if they are any signs that they're beginning to trail in the polls [and with the Poles].

molloyjh wrote:

If memory serves they were pro mass immigration this time 12 months ago.

What they were 12 months ago is irrelevant. What's important is where they stand on the issue today. Are they happy for us to continue with our let-them-all policy or are the going to honestly represent the views of the majority of the population about the desirability of imposing tighter restrictions, particularly now that we're in a severe recession.

molloyjh wrote:

Just look at their stance on a number of issues in the few countries they have representatives. In a number of cases they are in direct opposition to each other.

Can you give an example of this?

O'Morris

dob74 wrote:

Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

Just have to read the article in the Irish Independent dealing with O'Malley's comments on immigration:

Last night, his constituency rival, Fine Gael senator John Paul Phelan, accused Mr O'Malley of "playing the race card".

I'm sure you were as shocked as I was at hear of such an unexpected reaction to his comments.

P. Breathnach

O'Morris wrote: »

And I believe that immigration into Ireland is too high and that it's time for our politicians to do something to reduce it. Would I be right in thinking that that is enough to make me a xenophobe in your eyes?

Yes.

I'm sure Libertas is as reluctant to face up to the problem of mass immigration as any of the other parties. If they start slipping in the polls near the end though I can see them using the issue of immigration as a trump card.

You are implying that Libertas do not really have a position on immigration, but would be willing to do whatever it takes to garner votes.

At this stage I think any party that stands up and honestly represents the majority discontent on mass immigration will be guaranteed of a strong showing on election day.

"Majority discontent?" Proof?

What they were 12 months ago is irrelevant. What's important is where they stand on the issue today.

Libertas has no stated policies. It proclaims five "principles". I would expect, if people were being honest, that positions based on principles would be more constant over time that a ragbag of policy positions.

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

And I believe that immigration into Ireland is too high…

Has O’Malley estimated the current level of net migration into Ireland? Because I'd wager that we're experiencing net emigration right now.

O'Morris wrote: »

Even if our democratically elected representatives in the European parliament are powerless to do anything about immigration they can still represent the views of their constituents on the issue in the parliament.

Most politicians do represent the views of their electorate, for the most part. They just don’t represent your views on this particular subject.

O'Morris wrote: »

If the choice in any constituency is between two relatively competent candidates, I think the one that best represents the majority on immigration will stand a better chance of winning the votes of the undecided.

You assume that the majority of people in this country share your views on migration, which will result in a large vote for Libertas?

O'Morris wrote: »

…I think Libertas is very likely at do well in the European elections.

I think you are likely to be disappointed. Do you have any evidence that Libertas enjoy a significant level of support?

O'Morris

P. Breathnach wrote:

Yes.

I think that probably says more about your political orientation than it does about mine.

P. Breathnach wrote:

You are implying that Libertas do not really have a position on immigration, but would be willing to do whatever it takes to garner votes.

That's correct. Immigration has the potential to a major issue in this election and I think there are a huge number of votes to be gained from representing the majority view on the issue.

P. Breathnach wrote:

"Majority discontent?" Proof?

I don't have the time to track down on all the polls showing that the majority of the Irish population want to see a tighter immigration policy. As far as I know this one from the Irish times is the most recent one

Only 27% of the people polled think we should continue with our current level of immigration. That poll is from September of last year before things got really bad in the economy. I would be very surprised if that percentage of the population in favour of continued mass immigration isn't much lower today.

O'Morris

djpbarry wrote:

Has O’Malley estimated the current level of net migration into Ireland?

I don't know. I don't know if anyone has estimated it. We have the PPS numbers so we have an idea of the number of people coming into the country but I don't know if anyone has yet worked out whether more people are leaving the country than entering it. Do you know of any estimates that have been made on this?

djpbarry wrote:

Because I'd wager that we're experiencing net emigration right now.

Really, do you have anything to back that up?

djpbarry wrote:

Most politicians do represent the views of their electorate, for the most part. They just don’t represent your views on this particular subject.

And why do you think that is?

djpbarry wrote:

You assume that the majority of people in this country share your views on migration, which will result in a large vote for Libertas?

Correct. I'm assuming that most Irish people are xenophobic little-Irelanders like myself. I think the results of the poll in the Irish Times and the result of last year's Lisbon referendum is evidence of that.

djpbarry wrote:

I think you are likely to be disappointed. Do you have any evidence that Libertas enjoy a significant level of support?

I don't know what the state of the parties is at all. In the current economic climate though I'm fairly sure that any party promising to do something about immigration will be certain to see a huge increase in the number of votes flying in their direction.