European Election Profiler

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

Only 27% of the people polled think we should continue with our current level of immigration.

That's not what the findings stated at all.

What is our current level of (net) immigration anyway? If, as you claim, it's such a big election issue, then surely there must be plenty of up-to-date statistics available on the subject?

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

We have the PPS numbers so we have an idea of the number of people coming into the country…

No, we don’t; I’m tired of pointing out the disconnect between immigration and PPS numbers.

O'Morris wrote: »

Do you know of any estimates that have been made on this?

The most recent estimates I have seen came from the ESRI’s QEC in December 2008, which predicted net emigration of 50,000 in 2009. Their most recent QEC (April 2009) most likely contains a revision of this figure, but it is not freely available yet (it will be at the end of this month).

I’m also basing this on personal experience – I know quite a few people, both Irish and non-Irish, who have left the country recently or who are planning to do so in the near future.

O'Morris wrote: »

I'm assuming that most Irish people are xenophobic little-Irelanders like myself.

I think you are beyond delusional if you think that most Irish people would share views such as this:

O'Morris wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

The only way the “Irish race” can be “preserved” is if all “ethnic Irish” men are forced to have lots of kids with “ethnic Irish” women.

I would prefer "encouraged" rather than "forced". Patriotic people like myself consider it our duty to have big families with ethnic Irish women to keep the flame of the gael burning into the 22nd.

O'Morris wrote: »

In the current economic climate though I'm fairly sure that any party promising to do something about immigration will be certain to see a huge increase in the number of votes flying in their direction.

So do you expect to see Pat Talbot win the Dublin Central By-election?

molloyjh

O'Morris wrote: »

What they were 12 months ago is irrelevant. What's important is where they stand on the issue today.

Total rubbish. It doesn't matter a damn where they stand on an issue today if you can't be sure they are not going to flip-flop on it after the election.

O'Morris wrote: »

Can you give an example of this?

I'll have a look later at what I can dig up, don't have the time now I'm afraid - says he who posts on the thread regardless.

O'Morris wrote: »

I think that probably says more about your political orientation than it does about mine.

Of course it does. You asked for his opinion, he gave it. How could it not say more about him!?

O'Morris wrote: »

That's correct. Immigration has the potential to a major issue in this election and I think there are a huge number of votes to be gained from representing the majority view on the issue.

I don't have the time to track down on all the polls showing that the majority of the Irish population want to see a tighter immigration policy. As far as I know this one from the Irish times is the most recent one

Only 27% of the people polled think we should continue with our current level of immigration. That poll is from September of last year before things got really bad in the economy. I would be very surprised if that percentage of the population in favour of continued mass immigration isn't much lower today.

This election? Which one now? The European one I'm assuming given the forum/thread/discussion. Now would be a good time to look at the Irish Times article you referred to. The immigration there would be global immigration I'm sure, given that it did not specify, not limited to just EU countries. Therefore what exactly can Libertas actually do about the issue? And how would they do it? There's little point in flagging the issue if you can't do anything to change it after all.

O'Morris wrote: »

I don't know what the state of the parties is at all. In the current economic climate though I'm fairly sure that any party promising to do something about immigration will be certain to see a huge increase in the number of votes flying in their direction.

Even if they are powerless to actually do what they promise (and know they are)? You're being duped by clever (???) marketing.

Dob74

djpbarry wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Number of PPS numbers issued is not a very reliable indicator of immigration.

Unfortunately its the only numbers published by the government.

The same tactic used for the price of housing. No info given out.

The government just want to pretend there laissez-faire policies are working.
It wont be til there is a problem that they will react. And then they will probably make a paniced decision.
Unless you are a diehard PD or own a sweat shop. I cant see why you would want light regulation on immigration.

Capt'n Midnight

P. Breathnach wrote:

Libertas has no stated policies. It proclaims five "principles". I would expect, if people were being honest, that positions based on principles would be more constant over time that a ragbag of policy positions.

Just to remind everyone that the PD's started off as
"High standards in high places"

P. Breathnach

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Just to remind everyone that the PD's started off as
"High standards in high places"

The PDs are no more; there are not high standards in high places.

Is there a connection to be made?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Dob74 wrote: »

Unless you are a diehard PD or own a sweat shop. I cant see why you would want light regulation on immigration.

Do some reading on what a false dichotomy is please.

oscarBravo

Dob74 wrote: »

I cant see why you would want light regulation on immigration.

We're only talking about immigration from other EU member states, which is a consequence of our membership of the EU.

So, which do you want: free movement of workers into (and out of) Ireland, or non-membership of the EU? Those are your choices.

BlitzKrieg

going back on topic...(get your own thread immigrants!)

I am anotheer person who has been spotted as similar to labour in my political position.

though I have always considered my voting in a case by case process so never considered party loyalty.

If I keep up ending on the same side of things as labour I might have to reconsider my logic.


On a funny note, if you click to compare your answer with parties they provide citation to the party's manifesto if possible on every topic.

Guess who has no party manifesto and has *No oppinion* on the majority of topics...

View

O'Morris wrote: »

Sligo and Meath are part of the same country. Ireland and Poland are not part of the same country.

Both Ireland and Poland are part of the European Union. Freedom of Movement is one of the 4 fundamental principles of the EU. Likewise, EU citizenship is one of the core objectives of the EU (Which means Poles coming to Ireland and your fellow EU citizens exercising one of their fundamental rights under EU law).

Only the member states - not the European Parliament - can change that by unanimous agreement which means you'd need a Polish PM dumb enough to stand in front of the Sejm and propose restricting the rights of Poles to move within the EU. A process which would have to be repeated in ALL the other EU parliaments. There is ZERO chance of that happening.

You'd honestly have a better chance of getting the chairman of Meath county council to propose restricting the rights of Meath people to move to Sligo.

O'Morris wrote: »

Even if our democratically elected representatives in the European parliament are powerless to do anything about immigration they can still represent the views of their constituents on the issue in the parliament. If they ally with like-minded MEPs in Brussels they can form a bloc in the parliament that might become a powerful force for reform.

For the reasons I outlined above no MEP from another member state would touch someone who advocated such a policy. I doubt there are many MEPs with a desire to commit political sucide.


PS I should point out that biggest immigrant group in Ireland are the British. They outnumber the Poles by 2:1 and come close to outnumbering the combined total of people from all the other member states put together. It seems a bit odd to single the Poles out while ignoring the British...

TristanPeter

Regardless of the state of our economy or the economy of the EU in general, and also, any impacts the freedom of movement may (or may not) have on jobs, I have made some great Polish (and other non-Irish) friends over the last couple of years. Therefore, for that reason alone I am completely pro-European and pro freedom of movement. It may be somewhat of a blinkered outlook on matters, but it is a very important factor for me personally. So, while freedom of movement may or may not be good economically, surely it is good culturally I am aware that there are, has been, and always will be a tiny, minority "bad element" who have come to Ireland, just as this element exists in Ireland amongst the Irish, but on a whole I believe that the benifit far outweighs the disfavour

In relation to protecting our Irish gene pool (paraphrased from an earlier comment, probably badly) it is important to remember that mixing genes is usually a good thing scientifically and in the long run perhaps more important than protecting a relatively shallow "Irish" gene pool. Reproducing from a restricted gene pool can lead to a higher risk of genetic mutation. So, my point is: what's more important? To be genetically pure and perhaps more susceptible to disease/genetic mutation or to be genetically diverse and perhaps less susceptible to disease/genetic mutation? I'm not a geneticist so this is only my understanding. I'm not stating what I have written to be factual. I don't know enough about it. I have a degree in science so I do know a little about the area of genetics. I'm more interested in your views about mixed races in terms of EU integration. Do you think it's good, bad or are you indifferent? I think it's a great thing personally. Apologies in advance if this is a controversial topic. It's not intended to generate angry reactions from anyone. Just a question

Dob74

oscarBravo wrote: »

We're only talking about immigration from other EU member states, which is a consequence of our membership of the EU.

So, which do you want: free movement of workers into (and out of) Ireland, or non-membership of the EU? Those are your choices.

Only 3 EU countries opened there labour market.(Sweden, UK & ROI)
I dont see why people think that if you have your own laws you are giving two fingers to the EU.
All other eurozone countries do not allow free movement of workers.
Sweden and the UK are not even in the eurozone.
We should have enough back bone to make immigration laws suit ourselves.
IBEC want a cheap workforce but they dont want to lower there prices. So why should we bend to there wishes.

molloyjh

Dob74 wrote: »

Only 3 EU countries opened there labour market.(Sweden, UK & ROI)
I dont see why people think that if you have your own laws you are giving two fingers to the EU.
All other eurozone countries do not allow free movement of workers.
Sweden and the UK are not even in the eurozone.
We should have enough back bone to make immigration laws suit ourselves.
IBEC want a cheap workforce but they dont want to lower there prices. So why should we bend to there wishes.

That's not quite true. All EU countries must open their borders to new member states. When the accession states joined a few years ago we were given the option of not opening our borders to them straight away, just like everyone else. We decided to open our borders immediately and our economy was aided by the increased labour. Other countries opted to keep their borders closed to the new member states for a period of time (not sure how long). But ultimately all member states must have their borders open to all other member states.

sink

Dob74 wrote: »

Only 3 EU countries opened there labour market.(Sweden, UK & ROI)
I dont see why people think that if you have your own laws you are giving two fingers to the EU.
All other eurozone countries do not allow free movement of workers.
Sweden and the UK are not even in the eurozone.
We should have enough back bone to make immigration laws suit ourselves.
IBEC want a cheap workforce but they dont want to lower there prices. So why should we bend to there wishes.

It's too late. We agreed to let in workers from the accession states in the Accession Treaty 2003, this treaty now forms part of the founding EU treaties. If we introduce restrictions now we break the EU treaties and which will result in a court appearance in Strasbourg. Possible penalties would be massive fines, a ban on free movement of Irish citizens throughout the EU and even non-cooperation of all other members states with Ireland (Why should they honour their agreements with us if we don't honour our agreements with them?).

Short of breaking the treaties the only way to introduce restrictions now would be to renegotiate the treaties (Something I doubt many in Poland would go for) or renegotiate our position in the EU (i.e. leave).

NewApproach

1.
Parti radical-démocratique Suisse 80,3%
2.
Partito Liberale Radicale 80,3%
3.
Freisinnig-Demokratische Partei 80,3%
4.
Lijst Dedecker 79,8%
5.
АТАКА 79,5%
6.
Democratic Unionist Party 77,7% <<:eek::eek:



Very near libertas on the chart which seems right.

View

NewApproach wrote: »

1.
Parti radical-démocratique Suisse 80,3%
2.
Partito Liberale Radicale 80,3%
3.
Freisinnig-Demokratische Partei 80,3%
4.
Lijst Dedecker 79,8%
5.
АТАКА 79,5%
6.
Democratic Unionist Party 77,7% <<:eek::eek:



Very near libertas on the chart which seems right.

The first three are the same Swiss political party (the name of the party (& some political attitudes of its members) vary depending on the language of the relevant Canton).

ionix5891

came across this

http://euprofiler.eu/

has a questionare (specific to Ireland)

heres my result

http://i41.tinypic.com/i3f69g.png
or attached below

sink

There was a thread on this only a few weeks ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055564537

ionix5891

doh, sorry

please merge

nesf

ionix5891 wrote: »

doh, sorry

please merge

Done.

Lockstep

I got;
LAbour
the Greens
Socialists

I'm surprised, didn't think I'd have much in common with the socialists, especially over the EU