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Selecting the Taoseach????

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  • 14-05-2009 3:00pm
    #1
    Zuiderzee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭


    Just want to be sure on this.

    I know that when a government is formed after a general election through the history of the Dail that in all but one case it is and elected TD who is head of the party wo becomes taoseach.

    When a Taoseach (e.g. Mr Ahearn) steps down while in government - i.e mid term - they are replaced by a sucessor in the party (e.g. Mr Cowen)

    Am I right in saying the selection of the new Taoseach is the result of the vote of the TD's of his or her party?

    Do members in Government from other parties have any vote?

    Do senators have any say?

    Does the broader party have a say?

    Thanks in advance


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    #2
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    All members of the Dail first vote in one of their number to become Ceann Comhairle. Then all members of the Dail except the Ceann Comhairle have a vote in who becomes Taoiseach. In the event of a tie, the Ceann Comhairle has a casting vote. In the event of the resignation of a Taoiseach, the Dail reconvenes and selects another of their number.

    That answers all four questions.

    (however the individual answers are "yes, but all TDs get a vote", "yes", "no", no")

    Incidentally, Mulcahy stepped aside twice in favour of Costello - in 1948 and 1954.


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    #3
    Zuiderzee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Zuiderzee


    Many thanks - so 84 people get to choose the chief decision maker - aint that just great!!

    I remember the Mulcahy thing because the coalition party would not accept him


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    #4
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    Zuiderzee wrote: »
    Many thanks - so 84 people get to choose the chief decision maker - aint that just great!!

    Well we do choose the 166 people who make that decision. Its pretty much the same in every other parliamentary democracy. e.g. Britain, Germany


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    #5
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,431 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Zuiderzee wrote: »
    Am I right in saying the selection of the new Taoseach is the result of the vote of the TD's of his or her party?

    Do members in Government from other parties have any vote?
    Obviously, the Toaiseach has to gain the approval of any coalition members, but more correctly he has to command a majority (or near enough) in the Dáil, as included here:
    Zuiderzee wrote: »
    I remember the Mulcahy thing because the coalition party would not accept him
    Zuiderzee wrote: »
    Many thanks - so 84 people get to choose the chief decision maker - aint that just great!!
    No, only 43ish - he only need to have a majority within the largest grouping in the Dáil.


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    #6
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Zuiderzee wrote: »
    Many thanks - so 84 people get to choose the chief decision maker - aint that just great!!
    Yes. But it's important to remember that we don't elect an executive president like the US does - we elect a prime minister in the Anglo-Saxon parliamentary model. That PM has to have the support of a majority in parliament in order to get anything passed.

    But of course if you don't like that it's actually worse than that...
    Victor wrote: »
    No, only 43ish - he only need to have a majority within the largest grouping in the Dáil.
    I reckon you can even halve that. 83 for a government majority. Let's say that's made up of a coalition of say 55 in one party and 28 in another. Assuming the Taoiseach is the leader of the larger party, he only needed the support of 28 of those when they elected him to that position. If the parties are skewed less the number obviously gets smaller.

    I don't have a particular problem with it to be honest - the nature of our parliamentary model means that it's extremely impractical to separately elect a Taoiseach even if wanted to - the idea of having a PM of one party and a majority of another party would be completely unworkable - it doesn't even work particularly well in the US when they elect congress and the president from different parties and if it happened here it would be rather worse (our parliamentary system is pretty much totally different to theirs).


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