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Dell for Wimmins

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    #92
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Dragan wrote: »
    Should women not be allowed to be tech iliterate and like pink? Honestly, that is about the only thing i am getting from this thread as being the issue with the actual Dell site in question.

    How about- should people be happy to see women charged over the odds for obsolete hardware with a happy pink transfer on the lid (or a 'Hello Kitty' badge, or Swaroski crystals or whatever).

    If people are not interested in becoming technically literate- let them be- everyone unto themselves. There are guys out there far worse than women- and then there are 7 year old wizzards who put even IT nerds to shame.

    Should a company be allowed to blatantly rip-off unsuspecting customers on the basis of appealling to their girlyness with pinks, crystals and cartoon transfers....? Then again- does the sort of person who proudly displays their love of pink/Hello Kitty/Swaroski Crystals (whatever) deserve to be helped by people who know better? (Yes- I'm still pissed off at spending a lot of time and effort in trying to help my little sis get something decent- only for her to decide to go with the 'pink' one.........)

    :(


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    #93
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Not everyone cares about hardware specs. And 'obsolete' is subjective (it's actually a very clever marketing trick IMO - make people feel inadequate for having hardware that works fine, but isn't "up to date"). The difference in specs between now and 2/3 years ago are only significant for games and things like video editing, graphics etc. These laptops will function absolutely fine for everything that the average person will want to do.

    If someone gets ripped off, it's their own fault. However, you should consider that getting "ripped off" will mean something entirely different to you, who considers hardware specs to be the most important thing about a PC.


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    #94
    pikachucheeks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭pikachucheeks


    Moonbaby wrote: »
    As if there weren't enough reasons not to buy a dell already.

    Too right!


    How sexist of them and completely stereotypical.

    I had a Dell once ... I accidentally tripped on the charger and it fell of the table and broke.

    I managed to convince my dad it wasn't my fault, it was the laptop's for not being a Mac ;)


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    #95
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    smccarrick wrote: »
    How about- should people be happy to see women charged over the odds for obsolete hardware with a happy pink transfer on the lid (or a 'Hello Kitty' badge, or Swaroski crystals or whatever).

    If people are not interested in becoming technically literate- let them be- everyone unto themselves. There are guys out there far worse than women- and then there are 7 year old wizzards who put even IT nerds to shame.

    Should a company be allowed to blatantly rip-off unsuspecting customers on the basis of appealling to their girlyness with pinks, crystals and cartoon transfers....? Then again- does the sort of person who proudly displays their love of pink/Hello Kitty/Swaroski Crystals (whatever) deserve to be helped by people who know better? (Yes- I'm still pissed off at spending a lot of time and effort in trying to help my little sis get something decent- only for her to decide to go with the 'pink' one.........)

    :(

    Caveat emptor.


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    #96
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Dragan wrote: »
    Caveat emptor.

    Personal responsibility? Are you mad?!


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    #97
    Piste
    Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    taconnol wrote: »
    I don't personally see clamping down on advertising as the solution, but the education of children on how to read between the lines with these images. At the moment, I don't think that really happens and so many children carry on into adulthood accepting these messages at face value.

    So...basically Junior Cert English yeah? In media studies you're taught to look at ads critically and recognise the language they use and their techniques to get you to buy stuff.


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    #98
    almostnever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭almostnever


    liah wrote: »
    I did a little rant on my blog about it, but I wouldn't really know how to contact them. I mean, I know how, it's just which bloody department would you send that kind of thing to? There's loads. Customer service?

    It's just so... ugh.

    Do you get a kick out of feeling victimised? Surely if you take offence to this, the existence of a seperate "Ladies' Lounge" forum should also aggravate you. Personally,I feel this kind of thing has gone too far. What you are essentially doing is "discriminating" (I use that word in it's loosest sense) against the women who would buy a laptop based on it's colour/design etc. There's nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to,don't. End of.


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    #99
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Dragan wrote: »
    I agree with everything you said, but i honestly fail to see the negative image in this advertising.

    Should women not be allowed to be tech iliterate and like pink? Honestly, that is about the only thing i am getting from this thread as being the issue with the actual Dell site in question.
    The negative image in this advertising is that it is only women that are allowed (or should be) tech illiterate and like pink. If they had a section that was devoted to people who were tech illiterate and liked pink, fair enough. But they are assuming that it is only women that are like this and therefore the message is that women are A, men are B and anything else is out of the ordinary (ie men being A and women being B).

    The division of the two sexes into two genders and assigning specific characteristics to each one is very damaging, in my opinion. It puts people in boxes and tell them that they should not step out of those boxes. It also encourages people to make assumptions about other people, judged simply on whichever box they happen to be in.

    It isn't a healthy part of our society and I fail to understand why we allow advertising to perpetuate the strict gender divide. For the benefit of a very small number of individuals (ie Dell, etc) a lot of damage is done to a large number of people.
    Piste wrote: »
    So...basically Junior Cert English yeah? In media studies you're taught to look at ads critically and recognise the language they use and their techniques to get you to buy stuff.
    Well...you go through a little bit, how to deconstruct certain aspects of an image but I'm really talking about having the kinds of discussions that take place on this website:

    http://contexts.org/socimages/

    We certainly didn't talk about this stuff when I did my JC.


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    #100
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Not everyone cares about hardware specs. And 'obsolete' is subjective (it's actually a very clever marketing trick IMO - make people feel inadequate for having hardware that works fine, but isn't "up to date"). The difference in specs between now and 2/3 years ago are only significant for games and things like video editing, graphics etc. These laptops will function absolutely fine for everything that the average person will want to do.

    If someone gets ripped off, it's their own fault. However, you should consider that getting "ripped off" will mean something entirely different to you, who considers hardware specs to be the most important thing about a PC.

    I hold my hands up- yes, I game, edit videos, render between different formats etc- however the sorts of features I'd look for in a product for someone else differ from those I'd expect for myself. For my little sis- she is travelling- durability would have been feature no. 1- something that can take a few knocks, no. 2- Battery life- she might not get to a reliable electricity supply every day- it shouldn't be a limiting factor, 3- product specs- look at the screen- is it viewable in daylight? Does it have a GSM modem built-in? etc She has a good phone that she uses as a camera- I thought the laptop should be bluetooth enabled........ Perhaps I was being just a bit too practical- I don't know. My travel laptop (yes, I have several), is a Panasonic Toughbook Pro- its about 5 years old- but you can drive a tank on it. The phone that came with it is encased in rubber and also indestructible......

    I think my greatest sin was being practical........


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    #101
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    almostnever wrote: »
    Do you get a kick out of feeling victimised? Surely if you take offence to this, the existence of a seperate "Ladies' Lounge" forum should also aggravate you. Personally,I feel this kind of thing has gone too far. What you are essentially doing is "discriminating" (I use that word in it's loosest sense) against the women who would buy a laptop based on it's colour/design etc. There's nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to,don't. End of.

    Read:
    taconnol wrote: »
    The negative image in this advertising is that it is only women that are allowed (or should be) tech illiterate and like pink. If they had a section that was devoted to people who were tech illiterate and liked pink, fair enough. But they are assuming that it is only women that are like this and therefore the message is that women are A, men are B and anything else is out of the ordinary (ie men being A and women being B).

    The division of the two sexes into two genders and assigning specific characteristics to each one is very damaging, in my opinion. It puts people in boxes and tell them that they should not step out of those boxes. It also encourages people to make assumptions about other people, judged simply on whichever box they happen to be in.

    It isn't a healthy part of our society and I fail to understand why we allow advertising to perpetuate the strict gender divide. For the benefit of a very small number of individuals (ie Dell, etc) a lot of damage is done to a large number of people.


    Well...you go through a little bit, how to deconstruct certain aspects of an image but I'm really talking about having the kinds of discussions that take place on this website:

    http://contexts.org/socimages/

    We certainly didn't talk about this stuff when I did my JC.


    Though I've already posted something incredibly similar to that.

    It is NOT the fact that there's pink laptops. It's the fact that they've gone out of their way to target women.

    tLL isn't sexist because there's also BGRH. Neither section is made to make the gender represented look retarded, either. As long as there is a BALANCE of both genders, I'm fine, but if they target out one specific gender and make them look like idiots, it's wrong.

    I'd feel the same way if they did the same thing to men. It's nothing to do with my own gender in the slightest.


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    #102
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    taconnol wrote: »
    The negative image in this advertising is that it is only women that are allowed (or should be) tech illiterate and like pink. If they had a section that was devoted to people who were tech illiterate and liked pink, fair enough. But they are assuming that it is only women that are like this and therefore the message is that women are A, men are B and anything else is out of the ordinary (ie men being A and women being B).

    The division of the two sexes into two genders and assigning specific characteristics to each one is very damaging, in my opinion. It puts people in boxes and tell them that they should not step out of those boxes. It also encourages people to make assumptions about other people, judged simply on whichever box they happen to be in.

    It isn't a healthy part of our society and I fail to understand why we allow advertising to perpetuate the strict gender divide. For the benefit of a very small number of individuals (ie Dell, etc) a lot of damage is done to a large number of people.


    Well...you go through a little bit, how to deconstruct certain aspects of an image but I'm really talking about having the kinds of discussions that take place on this website:

    http://contexts.org/socimages/

    We certainly didn't talk about this stuff when I did my JC.

    To be honest, they are not. They are seeing a gap in the marketing and filling it, thats it. They have a group of responders that they will get to respond. Gay men do not react to atdvertising aimed at females, straight men don't either. This is just the way it is and research backs it up.

    You need to advertise and market very specifically...if you sales are down to a certain demographic then you advertise to THAT demographic. This is what Dell were doing. I imagine in the last 8 quarters they lost market space to the 18-25 year old females who wanted a laptop that was small, but didn't care about spec and ended up dropping cash on Acer's instead of Dells.

    It's a market response, thats it.

    I'm not belittling or dismissing your points by the way, i just honestly don't think they apply in this instance. Basically i see Dell doing rather late what everyone else did rather early and it only stands out now because it's a currently rare move.

    I quess i just fail to see how Dell selling pink laptops is any different to Anne Summers selling pink vibrators. Both technology, both pink, both are pretty obvious when it comes to their use.


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    #103
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Dragan wrote: »
    To be honest, they are not. They are seeing a gap in the marketing and filling it, thats it.
    The two actions are not mutually exclusive. They are putting women in a box and, as you say, seeing a gap in the marketing and filling it.
    Dragan wrote: »
    They have a group of responders that they will get to respond. Gay men do not react to atdvertising aimed at females, straight men don't either. This is just the way it is and research backs it up.
    As I said before, just because it works for business doesn't mean that we shouldn't question it. I would also question how well it's working, if you look at many of the feedback comments left, a lot are very negative. These people are clearly existing/potential Dell customers who are not very happy.
    Dragan wrote: »
    I guess i just fail to see how Dell selling pink laptops is any different to Anne Summers selling pink vibrators. Both technology, both pink, both are pretty obvious when it comes to their use.
    I don't have a problem with Dell selling pink laptops. I have a problem with Dell selling pink laptops only to women. And there are many other things in this website that I have serious issues with, including:

    - the use of 'feminine' words like 'nurture', 'give'
    - the featured artist has written a book called "Practically Posh: The Smart Girls Guide to a Glam Life"
    - suggested uses for the laptop include looking up and storing recipes and keeping track of your calorie intake (now since taken down)

    If you can't see how this encourages the stereotyping of women, I don't know what else to say.

    Edit: Ahem, although let me just say that I can understand why you may feel I'm simply reading too much into it. And maybe I am (?) But I really do feel that the assigning of specific roles, adjectives and attributes to either gender can be very damaging - it just works in a very subtle and indirect way.

    If you ask a boy or a girl if they tick all the assumed boxes for their gender (eg is the boy sporty, logical, competitive, strong (emotionally and physically) and is the girl emotional, caring, more interested in cooking than sports ...) they will not. So why do we perpetuate these boxes? And where exactly do they come from? For me they are 18th century ideas that have managed to hang on into the 21st century. I don't see what purpose they serve other than to pidgeonhole people and make them feel bad about themselves if they don't comply (and sell laptops :p).


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    #104
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    taconnol wrote: »
    If you can't see how this encourages the stereotyping of women, I don't know what else to say.

    By and large pretty much everything stereotypes someone. Dell stereotype women? So does this forum. People seem to think this forum provides a better stereotype than the Dell one though.

    I don't think it's stereotyping women at all, i think it's a move designed to remove money from the pockets of women who have made their own choices, decided on their own interests and have their own wishes and desires and i don't think it's okay to imply there is something wrong with that because they are not matching those of others.

    I don't see Dell saying anything about all women, just some women. And they are spot on. There are plenty of women out there who are far more concerned with looks and appearance than the inner workings of either themselves or their laptops. It's pointless to imply otherewise.

    So, when a large group of people exist and you are directly marketing to them...it's not really perpetuated a stereotype. At least not to me.


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    #105
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Dragan wrote: »
    So, when a large group of people exist and you are directly marketing to them...it's not really perpetuated a stereotype. At least not to me.

    OK, I completely understand your point of view and I suppose at this stage we'll have to agree to disagree. :) (Otherwise I can see myself not getting any work done today..)


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    #106
    Kur4mA
    Registered Users Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Kur4mA


    I can definitely see how some women could find that offensive, but if some marketing spanner has done well out of it and is making a few extra quid then at the end of the day, **** your feelings tbh.


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    #107
    almostnever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭almostnever


    liah wrote: »
    Read:

    [...]


    I can read,thank you. I'm sorry that I don't feel that this advertising campaign is a threat to my rights. I'm sorry that you feel the need to be sarcastic with me. I did,in fact,read this thread in it's entirety. But primarily,I am sorry that I don't think that this is the work of an evil corporation to "target" women. I think the way in which teenagers are discriminated against by the media is far more concerning than the way in which women are. I just don't understand why you feel this is such a bad thing,I really don't. By the same logic,do you feel that advertisements that advertise products for spots are discriminatory? They all feature teenagers,when in reality adolescents only represent about seventy pc of the market.

    I feel so insulted that they assume only teenagers have acne issues! How dare they!


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    #108
    almostnever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭almostnever


    Dragan wrote: »
    By and large pretty much everything stereotypes someone. Dell stereotype women? So does this forum. People seem to think this forum provides a better stereotype than the Dell one though.

    I don't think it's stereotyping women at all, i think it's a move designed to remove money from the pockets of women who have made their own choices, decided on their own interests and have their own wishes and desires and i don't think it's okay to imply there is something wrong with that because they are not matching those of others.

    I don't see Dell saying anything about all women, just some women. And they are spot on. There are plenty of women out there who are far more concerned with looks and appearance than the inner workings of either themselves or their laptops. It's pointless to imply otherewise.

    So, when a large group of people exist and you are directly marketing to them...it's not really perpetuated a stereotype. At least not to me.

    Exactly.


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    #109
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    And the Della website has bit the dust.

    Link to article here


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    #110
    Pythia
    Registered Users Posts: 7,469 ✭✭✭Pythia


    Meh, I'd buy one.


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    #111
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Got to love the over reaction.

    This type of thing is done everyday.

    Down with that sort of thing!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #112
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Get an acer aspire one white and some hello kitty stickers.

    Yes I know it's not as easy as this to get a "professional" look , but it's not that much more difficult or costly for the manufacturers. The male equalivent was the "go faster" stripes for cars, and look how much extra they paid for stripes , engine tuning and a few other cheap and chearful changes.


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    #113
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Get an acer aspire one white and some hello kitty stickers.

    Yes I know it's not as easy as this to get a "professional" look , but it's not that much more difficult or costly for the manufacturers. The male equalivent was the "go faster" stripes for cars, and look how much extra they paid for stripes , engine tuning and a few other cheap and chearful changes.

    Alternatively- there is an interesting UK site: www.lapjacks.co.uk - where you can pick any of hundreds of different possible stickers or designs. Its very popular with enthusiasts- and has been discussed a few times in the modding forum.


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    #114
    Twee.
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭Twee.


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Get an acer aspire one white and some hello kitty stickers.

    How sad, my Macbook actually has Hello Kitty stickers on it :p

    I don't really see the big deal. It's obviously not meant for tech savvy women. It's appealing to a market that exists, out to make money. Sounds like business to me!


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    #115
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Twee. wrote: »
    How sad, my Macbook actually has Hello Kitty stickers on it :p

    I don't really see the big deal. It's obviously not meant for tech savvy women. It's appealing to a market that exists, out to make money. Sounds like business to me!

    In all fairness- the average Japanese enthusiast would probably be very interested in your 'Hello Kitty' collection :D


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    #116
    Twee.
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭Twee.


    smccarrick wrote: »
    In all fairness- the average Japanese enthusiast would probably be very interested in your 'Hello Kitty' collection :D

    O/T but I have a huge HK collection! 10 years in the making :cool:


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