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Abortion

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    #422
    Rabies
    Registered Users Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    You know what?

    I have hated seeing abortion threads in AH since i joined a few years ago.
    Really it should be in Humanities, but its been done to death there over the years too.

    When this topic arises, the same arguments come up every time. Both sides choose their words completely different to get their point across. The same thing is described so different.

    At the end of the day, you have your own choice. It is your body. Your choice. If want to bring life in to this world, then do it. If you accidentally get pregnant, then you need to think long and hard about your life and how it will change for the good or bad.

    Ugggghhhh... abortion threads.


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    #423
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Rabies wrote: »
    At the end of the day, you have your own choice. It is your body. Your choice. If want to bring life in to this world, then do it. If you accidentally get pregnant, then you need to think long and hard about your life and how it will change for the good or bad.

    Ugggghhhh... abortion threads.

    I don't see how that is "at the end of the day". You're basically saying this:
    "At the end of the day pro-lifers are wrong".

    You then go on to use the same "your body" nonsense that has been repeated on this thread repeatedly despite it being refuted in the first few pages :p


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    #424
    Rabies
    Registered Users Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    What!
    Me read the whole thread. Jebus :D


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    #425
    5318008!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭5318008!


    Rabies wrote: »
    At the end of the day, you have your own choice.

    Not in this country, abortion is illegal here in case you didn't know.
    It is your body.

    What with the different genetic make up and seperate nervous systems?

    That's very debateable.


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    #426
    Rabies
    Registered Users Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    5318008! wrote: »
    Not really, abortion is illegal here in case you didn't know.



    What with the different genetic make up and seperate nervous systems?

    That's very debateable.

    I do know that.
    But its not across in the UK. So the choice is still there.
    I'd rather women had the safer option of getting it done instead of back street horror stories that you hear about now and again.

    Separate nervous system and genetic make up, I don't doubt that.
    It is about how you perceive it in your own mind while it is only a couple of weeks old. Is it a baby or a complex bundle of tissue that is on its way to forming a baby.


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    #427
    5318008!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭5318008!


    Separate nervous system and genetic make up, I don't doubt that.
    It is about how you perceive it in your own mind while it is only a couple of weeks old. Is it a baby or a complex bundle of tissue that is on its way to forming a baby.

    The point you made was "it's your body". No matter what your opinion on abortion is, a very good case can be made for saying that the fetus is not part of the mother's body.


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    #428
    WillieCocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭WillieCocker


    Rabies wrote: »
    Is it a baby or a complex bundle of tissue that is on its way to forming a baby.

    Or in some women's cases "is it a complex bunch of tissue that is on it's way to putting an end to your single life"


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    #429
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Rabies: A complex bunch of tissue is what is to be expected of a human life at that age. It's utterly ridiculous to retort "It doesn't look like a baby therefore it isn't human life". Think of how many people that could apply to outside of the womb. I gave numerous examples earlier on in the thread. It is meant to be a complex bunch of tissue, that is to be expected of human life at that stage, that doesn't give anyone the right to kill it.


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    #430
    thebullkf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    5318008! wrote: »
    The point you made was "it's your body". No matter what your opinion on abortion is, a very good case can be made for saying that the fetus is not part of the mother's body.


    true but abit pedantic, in short foetus would die without the mother
    mother would not die without thefoetus.

    fathers have no say really according to irsh law/unless married.
    EG if an unmarried mother dies,her child automatically goes to HER next of kin,regardless if he's paying a "MEASLY" amount or not.:rolleyes:

    i believe its solely the mothers choice (you can't force her to carry full term).

    and in resonse to killing etc, the only killing of humans that shouldbe sanctioned isthat carried out by cannibals.


    ghandhi was once asked what he thought about "western civilisation"

    he thought it would be a good idea.:p


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    #431
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Uncle Arthur wrote: »
    amazing how you thank a post that seems to back up your point of view which quotes the bible then show you dont even believe in it. hypocrite.:rolleyes:

    The bible is just a book full of myths and distorted historical stories.
    And clearly you have not hear the expression of the devil quoting scripture to his own ends.


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    #432
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    WillieCocker wrote: »
    Or in some women's cases "is it a complex bunch of tissue that is on it's way to putting an end to your single life"


    So what? Your life is changed forever once you have a kid. Some people are not ready for it and some don't want to go full term and adopt out. It's not that selfish, it's reality. What's selfish is that you force someone by law who you have never met before or give a **** about to go full term and deliver a baby that they don't want. Another ASBO for the HSE to claim.


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    #433
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    WindSock wrote: »
    So what? Your life is changed forever once you have a kid. Some people are not ready for it and some don't want to go full term and adopt out. It's not that selfish, it's reality. What's selfish is that you force someone by law who you have never met before or give a **** about to go full term and deliver a baby that they don't want. Another ASBO for the HSE to claim.

    Agreed. The law is there for whatever moral reason but the fact is that thousands of women are travelling abroad every year and having an abortion or ordering pills over the internet and doing god knows what harm to themselves in their own homes.

    I dont think legalising abortion would encourage it, for right minded people at least. Chances are we all know someone who has had an abortion, whether we know it or not. We can stick our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happening, leaving vulnerable women to carry the burned on their own in many cases or we can bring it out into the open and deal with it


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    #434
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    WindSock wrote: »
    So what? Your life is changed forever once you have a kid. Some people are not ready for it and some don't want to go full term and adopt out. It's not that selfish, it's reality.

    If someone is not ready for it, then they should not indulge in the act that leads to conception. If they do indulge, then they should be very careful as regards contraception. If they do happen to concieve a child, then the child should not have to suffer death because they are an inconvenience to the parents.
    What's selfish is that you force someone by law who you have never met before or give a **** about to go full term and deliver a baby that they don't want. Another ASBO for the HSE to claim.

    What a distorted and twisted view. It is not selfish to try protect an unborn child from harm where it is possible. It 'is' selfish to kill a child because they are an inconvenience.


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    #435
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    JimiTime wrote: »
    If someone is not ready for it, then they should not indulge in the act that leads to conception.

    Are you saying people shouldn't have sex if they don't want children? What decade do you live in? You do realise it's ok to have sex for pleasure, don't you? Why did god give woman a clitoris?
    distorted and twisted view. It is not selfish to try protect an unborn child from harm where it is possible. It 'is' selfish to kill a child because they are an inconvenience.

    Child is not foetus. Do you weep and mourn for those 5,000 'Irish children' who are 'murdered' very year?


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    #436
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    WindSock wrote: »


    Child is not foetus. Do you weep and mourn for those 5,000 'Irish children' who are 'murdered' very year?

    Good point, I presume these are not counted in the official register of deaths in this country!

    Interestingly a stillborn child must be registered only if the baby weighs at least 500 grammes or has a gestational age of at least 24 weeks.


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    #437
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    O'Coonassa wrote: »
    Well condoms can break. As I said in my earlier post if he doesn't want an abortion then he shouldn't put it inside that kind of woman. Women who want children or who would never abort them shouldn't go with the kind of men who don't want them or would want them aborted

    Yeah, that always the first thing i ask a chick,

    "So, do you like abortions?"

    I find it sets the mood.


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    #438
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    JimiTime wrote: »
    If someone is not ready for it, then they should not indulge in the act that leads to conception.

    This only applies if you see conception end desired result of sex.

    What if you don't want kids, should we all join the clergy and get with the touching of same?


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    #439
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,762 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    You like sex in odd positions, maybe
    To **** you I must contort
    Your womb is full of baby
    I hope you will abort


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    #440
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    EF wrote: »
    Good point, I presume these are not counted in the official register of deaths in this country!

    5,000 is an estimate based on women who go to the uk and give irish addresses many don't give irish addresses and it does not take into account women who travel to holland, spain, belguim or sweden.

    The numbers could be easily closer to 7,000 a year.
    EF wrote: »
    Interestingly a stillborn child must be registered only if the baby weighs at least 500 grammes or has a gestational age of at least 24 weeks.

    Yes under Irish law it is not legally a child until that stage.


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    #441
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Dragan wrote: »
    Yeah, that always the first thing i ask a chick,

    "So, do you like abortions?"

    I find it sets the mood.

    Maybe you should try the other line of how you find human stem cell research so intresting and sexy.


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    #442
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Dragan wrote: »
    Yeah, that always the first thing i ask a chick,

    "So, do you like abortions?"

    I find it sets the mood.

    lol if you're so very worried about it Dragan, to the extent that you're going to be screaming 'murderer' at them should they decide to abort, then really you should ask first.


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    #443
    Noffles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Noffles


    In MY opinion, no one should be allowed to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her own body....

    Pro Choice.

    And that is MY opinion, simple as that.


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    #444
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    WindSock wrote: »
    Are you saying people shouldn't have sex if they don't want children?

    I'm saying if you don't want children so much that you would kill one thats growing in your belly, then you should think about a bit of self control.
    What decade do you live in? You do realise it's ok to have sex for pleasure, don't you?

    I do. You do realise that in saying this, I would also take responsability for my actions, and refrain from killing my child?
    Why did god give woman a clitoris?

    You believe in God do you?
    Child is not foetus.

    And here we go with the dehumanising of unborn human children.
    Do you weep and mourn for those 5,000 'Irish children' who are 'murdered' very year?

    Nope, nor do I weep and mourn for the so many children who are allowed life only for it to end. However, I certainly see it as a horrible occurance. One I hope our state does not sponsor.


    Here's a scenario actually that I'd be curious about. Does anyone know what the charge would be if someone assaulted a pregnant woman in order to cause the death of their unborn child and suceeds? Is that just counted as an assault on the mother? Or is the life of the child taken into account?


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    #445
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Noffles wrote: »
    In MY opinion, no one should be allowed to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her own body....

    I agree. Its when she's given the choice to kill somebody else that I tend to draw the line.


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    #446
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    O'Coonassa wrote: »
    lol if you're so very worried about it Dragan, to the extent that you're going to be screaming 'murderer' at them should they decide to abort, then really you should ask first.

    And where are you getting the above from? If you don't mind my asking?

    I don't think i offered my opinion on abortion within this thread. I have done in other threads, and i am perfectly fine with the idea of abortion and feel that women should have the right to seek it in this country.

    Seeing as you seem to be in the mood for suggestion, I suggest that when involved in a thread like this you make sure you are making the right replies, to the right people.

    If you knew me, you would know i would
    a) Never act in the way you have implied i would in your post.
    b) Have no problem calling you a ****ing retard for implying that i would hold the above opinion or act the way you have implied i would.

    Now, the issue can be resolved by you simply saying "****, sorry, it's an emotive topic and i got my posters mixed up and i won't be making that mistake again" and i will say "that's fine, i understand it's an emotive topic, hence my anger and use of the term "****ing retard".

    Other than that the use of the term definitely stands and i'll take whatever banning comes my way for it.

    So the choice on that one is yours.


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    #447
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Dragan wrote: »
    And where are you getting the above from? If you don't mind my asking?

    I don't think i offered my opinion on abortion within this thread. I have done in other threads, and i am perfectly fine with the idea of abortion and feel that women should have the right to seek it in this country.

    Seeing as you seem to be in the mood for suggestion, I suggest that when involved in a thread like this you make sure you are making the right replies, to the right people.

    If you knew me, you would know i would
    a) Never act in the way you have implied i would in my post.
    b) Have no problem calling you a ****ing retard for implying that i would hold the above opinion or act the way you have implied i would.

    Now, the issue can be resolved by you simply saying "****, sorry, it's an emotive topic and i got my posters mixed up and i won't be making that mistake again" and i will say "that's fine, i understand it's an emotive topic, hence my anger and use of the term "****ing retard".

    Other than that the use of the term definitely stands and i'll take whatever banning comes my way for it.

    So the choice on that one is yours.

    Mod of Ranting and Raving indeed.


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    #448
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Mod of Ranting and Raving indeed.

    Now you're getting it.


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    #449
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    WindSock wrote: »
    Why did god give woman a clitoris?

    JimiTime wrote: »
    You believe in God do you?

    Nice way to avoid a difficult question. "Because he loves you" would have been a better answer.


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    #450
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Dragan wrote: »
    If you knew me, you would know i would
    a) Never act in the way you have implied i would in your post.
    b) Have no problem calling you a ****ing retard for implying that i would hold the above opinion or act the way you have implied i would.

    Banned for personal abuse.


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    #451
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Dragan wrote: »
    Now you're getting it.

    That looks like a threat after reading his previous post.


This discussion has been closed.
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