Abortion

Noffles · 19-05-2009 3:05pm

Jakkass wrote: »

You didn't answer my question mind. Why should anyone have the right to dictate death to a child?

Having a child would change her life, so surely she has a choice to decide whether this should happen or not?? I simply can not understand how you can want to dictate this??

Probably. Having choice over what should happen to other peoples lives is precisely the reason why I do care.

But caring and trying to dictate what others do are two different thing are they not? What gives you the right to want to enforce a woman who's pregnant by mistake to have a child? If she can reverse this then surely you are in no position to stop this.

philologos · 19-05-2009 3:07pm

Nodin wrote: »

O Goody.

Btw, What does that prove again?

That WindSock should do her homework first

Nodin wrote: »

However one can say quite easily that the interpretation of the text has not only changed but has branched far and wide. And of course, the question underlying the whole thing is what weight does such a text have over the (for example ) Vedic scriptures or the Egyptian writings.....

You could say that, but that wasn't what WindSock was claiming.

WillieCocker · 19-05-2009 3:08pm

Malari wrote: »

What, you can only have facts or tragedies? I don't get it.

Don't get what?
Are you senile? , you keep going off topic.
War VS Abortion , which is more tragic.:rolleyes:
War is and never was tragic....it was human nature.......

...is also a fact of life.

Abortion is a fact of life...........HERE YEE HERE YEEE all yee unborn..... ABORTION is a fact of life you will learn and get used to.
I suppose you will say abortion is human nature too...

Malari · 19-05-2009 3:29pm

WillieCocker wrote: »

Don't get what?
Are you senile? , you keep going off topic.
War VS Abortion , which is more tragic.:rolleyes:
War is and never was tragic....it was human nature.......

Abortion is a fact of life...........HERE YEE HERE YEEE all yee unborn..... ABORTION is a fact of life you will learn and get used to.
I suppose you will say abortion is human nature too...

Look, I'm not attacking any poster here, just what they say. Why don't you keep the personal comments to yourself please. Make an argument instead. What I didn't get is that you can say war is a fact, therefore not tragic. As if the two were mutually exclusive.

My initial point is that the death of someone who has lived, in a war for example, is more tragic than an abortion, in my opinion.

If abortion wasn't a fact of life, ie: happening, then we wouldn't be discussing whether it should be allowed or not. And it is very human in nature. The driving force in individuals of a species is to live and reproduce. To be able to abort a pregnancy is unusual among animals.

WindSock · 19-05-2009 3:29pm

Jakkass wrote: »

That WindSock should do her homework first

Homework on what? How can I not believe that the bible isn't a direct word from god and could quite easily have changed over the last 2,000 years, let alone the parts that have been left out?

You can't make me believe that any more than I can make you believe abortion is ok. It's a fundamental belief.

What if you happened to stumble across a scroll somewhere in a desert that is a lost text of gospel that says abortion is ok, would you like to have that included in todays Bible or do you think it should be cast aside?

What I mean by that is, the bible is edited by man, and man ultimately (and subjectivley) gets to decide what goes into it and what is left out of it, not god.

You could say that, but that wasn't what WindSock was claiming.

What was I claiming?

WindSock · 19-05-2009 3:32pm

WillieCocker wrote: »

Abortion is a fact of life...........HERE YEE HERE YEEE all yee unborn..... ABORTION is a fact of life you will learn and get used to.
I suppose you will say abortion is human nature too...

Well it is. Unwanted pregnancies are and will always be a fact of life. And it is human nature to be territorial and want to be rid of trespassers.

thebullkf · 19-05-2009 3:35pm

hhmmmmm... some sh1tetalk goin on.
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/15704051/?view=Standard

philologos · 19-05-2009 3:37pm

WindSock wrote: »

Homework on what? How can I not believe that the bible isn't a direct word from god and could quite easily have changed over the last 2,000 years, let alone the parts that have been left out?

You can't make me believe that any more than I can make you believe abortion is ok. It's a fundamental belief.

What if you happened to stumble across a scroll somewhere in a desert that is a lost text of gospel that says abortion is ok, would you like to have that included in todays Bible or do you think it should be cast aside?

What I mean by that is, the bible is edited by man, and man ultimately (and subjectivley) gets to decide what goes into it and what is left out of it, not god.

These questions are very easy to answer and to clarify, but the best location to deal with it is in the Christianity forum.

Banter Joe · 19-05-2009 4:02pm

Jakkass wrote: »

These questions are very easy to answer and to clarify, but the best location to deal with it is in the Christianity forum.

The flying spaghetti monster forum is also useful for the clarification of made-up nonsense.

weeder · 19-05-2009 4:10pm

YAY! another thread taken off topic and ruined by religious drivel

philologos · 19-05-2009 4:18pm

weeder wrote: »

YAY! another thread taken off topic and ruined by religious drivel

Blame those who actually brought it up then. The vast majority of the pro-life arguments made on this thread didn't invoke God at all.

neuro-praxis · 19-05-2009 4:27pm

Having just spent my entire afternoon reading this thread, I'd like to say thanks to everyone for for their contributions and a good argument.

To quote Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu, addressing women thinking of aborting:

Please don't kill the child. I want the child. Please give me the child. I am willing to accept any child who would be aborted, and to give that child to a married couple who will love the child, and be loved by the child. From our children's home in Calcutta alone, we have saved over 3,000 children from abortions. These children have brought such love and joy to their adopting parents, and have grown up so full of love and joy!

I want to be the kind of person that echoes her, not the kind of person who fights for the rights of middle-class woes.

WindSock · 19-05-2009 4:35pm

Jakkass wrote: »

These questions are very easy to answer and to clarify, but the best location to deal with it is in the Christianity forum.

Jakkass wrote: »

Blame those who actually brought it up then. The vast majority of the pro-life arguments made on this thread didn't invoke God at all.

Agreed, It will take more than a thread on abortion to discuss, I should have left my ideas on the bible out of the thread. I was asked however if I believed in God. I answered although it was irrelevant to my point about a clitoris (however which way it is formed on a female, be it God or Other)

philologos · 19-05-2009 4:42pm

WindSock: In all due fairness your question about God's purpose for the clitoris was also irrelevant to the thread.

WindSock · 19-05-2009 4:44pm

Saving 3,000 children from abortion while....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracle_Foundation

In 2006 there were 12.4 million orphans in India, according to CSA

Would it not be better to concentrate on saving children that actually are born?

philologos · 19-05-2009 4:45pm

It would be best to protect both.

WindSock · 19-05-2009 4:45pm

Jakkass wrote: »

WindSock: In all due fairness your question about God's purpose for the clitoris was also irrelevant to the thread.

Not to the original post I replied to, which was about sex & babies.

WindSock · 19-05-2009 4:47pm

Jakkass wrote: »

It would be best to protect both.

There simply aren't enough loving homes to handle that multitude.

Dave! · 19-05-2009 4:52pm

WindSock wrote: »

Would it not be better to concentrate on saving children that actually are born?

Ahh but sure new born babies are all cute and stuff

Nothin cute about this
http://www.kidssundayschool.com/Main/Outreach/Asia/Images/childrags2.jpg

*shadow* · 19-05-2009 4:56pm

Rabies wrote: »

I think its more grieving for what could have been, not what it was.

That woman never though of that baby as anything less, try carrying a baby for 3 months only to suddenly suffer a miscarriage. You would not only be grieving for what could have been but for the fact that that baby you nurtured inside of you for however many weeks is now dead.

Rabies wrote: »

I'll be honest here, I have experience with this personally and know how it feels. Maybe I'm a heartless bastard, but I've been through it and came out fine.

Many people have suffered first hand or witnessed someone go through a miscarriage and No the majority don't come out fine, the event shapes you in someway or another.

CathyMoran · 19-05-2009 5:31pm

Just on the issue of miscarriage - Rabies while I respect that you did not suffer terribly from your experience of miscarriage a lot of us have - for me it comes in waves and I am dreading the day when our baby was due to be born. I was speaking to an elderly relative who I knew had had miscarriages a long time ago - it still hurts for her as if it was yesterday. I know that I will think of our lost babies all the days of our lives.

In terms of abortion - I disagree in having sex just for procreation and there are limited circumstances as I have stated before where abortion is OK (physical health of mother or where the mother would refuse life saving treatment or babies that will die naturally within a few hours of birth).

I agree that adoption is extremly hard and it is hard to know who would be a good parent, but that happens in life in general, most biological parents do not have to undergo so much scruitiny - they just have a baby. I also know that adopted people can feel a lot of hurt over the experience - I have seen that in the eyes of my wonderful husband. I also know that it can severely hurt the mother giving up their child but in the end of the day there are a lot of wonderful people around who might not otherwise have been here (I include my husband and favorite cousin).

Demonique · 19-05-2009 6:26pm

brummytom wrote: »

I feel guilty for laughing at that....

Anyway, I'm only a child (just thought I'd mention that before any smart alec sees my age on my profile and believes it invalidates my post in any way) but I'm against abortion completely - and I'm english,, this country actively encourages birth control and abortion; I'm just going to blatantly copy and paste what I said to a friend the other night during a 'debate' thing we were having:

My nan was born in Dublin Workhouse on Christmas Day 1931, She was abandoned by her mom and dad. After being taken in by someone, at the age of 6, she woke up one morning to find the woman caring for her had died beside her. she was takin in by loving people that became her parents,, She went on to achieve a good career, find a husband she loved and who loved her, have 3 amazing children and more grandchildren that would have given the world for her. Since she died 18 months ago, she's been terribly missed because she was the centre of our lives.
Should she not have been allowed any of that chance in life?

Sorry, don't care, nothing's going make me switch to the forced-birther side of the abortion debate

Demonique · 19-05-2009 6:32pm

ibarelycare wrote: »

I definitely think that all abortions should be carried out before 14-16 weeks though. I've seen some of the images on the pro-life websites and they're shocking

Yes they are shocking, shockingly badly photoshopped that is.

The vast majority of those 'abortion' photos are FAKE. Do you honestly think abortion service providers would allow people to take photographs of aborted fetuses?

Fetuses discarded in buckets? Unlikely seeing as they're incinerated.

They even use pictures of stillborn infants and claim that they're late-term abortions

Demonique · 19-05-2009 7:28pm

orestes wrote: »

That's disgusting. I'm pro-life and believe all abortion practitioners should be killed

Your logic is flawed

dr.bollocko · 19-05-2009 7:33pm

Demonique wrote: »

Your logic is flawed

I am pretty sure he was just taking the piss to be honest Demo.

Flat2dmat · 19-05-2009 7:43pm

A couple of years ago, I thought that if I got pregnant I would have an abortion as I was still financially dependent on my parents and I'd no house or car, and basically we'd have no way to look after a child.
Now that I've a job, house and car, if I was to get pregnant (not planning on having a baby for a couple of years), I would be happy to have the child, because I know that we could cope, even if it would be tight financially. We are both in a place where we'd be happy to have a baby now but we were not back then.
I think it really depends on the individual circumstances and that people do have a right to choose.
I would never judge anyone who chose to have it, as I'm sure they would've thought about it long and hard before making their decision. In the case of rape then it is all that more understandable to have it.

I do wonder though, if many people who decide to have an abortion in their teens / early twenties, then regret it later in life? Would they look back and think that well, I could've actually managed with a baby? (just wondering)

Gauge · 19-05-2009 7:43pm

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Having just spent my entire afternoon reading this thread, I'd like to say thanks to everyone for for their contributions and a good argument.

To quote Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu, addressing women thinking of aborting:

I want to be the kind of person that echoes her, not the kind of person who fights for the rights of middle-class woes.

You seriously believe abortion is a middle class woe? That poor people never suffer from unwanted pregnancies, or that they are in a better position when it comes to taking care of the needs of an unwanted baby?

You want to be like Mother Theresa? Better get started on denying people access to contraception, unused needles and painkillers then.

neuro-praxis · 19-05-2009 7:53pm

No, the "right to choose" is a middle-class woe. Abortion is a worldwide phenomenon.

And anyone who can demonise Mother Theresa really needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. Surely you are denying people

contraception, unused needles and painkillers then

as you haven't made it your life's work to provide them for strangers in the midst of your, no doubt, utterly self-sacrificing career path.

Boston · 19-05-2009 8:10pm

Mother Theresa was a ****.

ParkRunner · 19-05-2009 8:20pm

What do the pro-life group think about a circumstance where a person is in a vegetative state for whatever reason and dependant on a machine to keep them alive?

Should their loved ones have the right to choose their fate (i.e. euthanasia) or should the person in a vegetative state be in a position to live out their natural lives, as to interfere would end their life and effectively be murder..in some people's eyes.

Abortion

Comments