Abortion

JimiTime

Boston wrote: »

Mother Theresa was a ****.

Knew her did you?

CathyMoran

EF wrote: »

What do the pro-life group think about a circumstance where a person is in a vegetative state for whatever reason and dependant on a machine to keep them alive?

Should their loved ones have the right to choose their fate (i.e. euthanasia) or should the person in a vegetative state be in a position to live out their natural lives, as to interfere would end their life and effectively be murder..in some people's eyes.

I would not be your typical pro-lifer here but in my opinion the person should be kept alive (as long as they are not brain dead). If they are brain dead then the issues of organ donation come into play, but that is another story...However if they sucumb to pneumonia or something similar then I would query as to wether medicine would be best used in their case, though the next of kin would need to decide that - please note this is only for people in a long term persistant vegetative state.

I know what it is like to not want to have a child as the circumstances were not right but I also know that I would have changed my world around the second I found out that I was pregnant to look after it - my main concern would be the folic acid issue, though I have been taking it for years even when activly avoiding pregnancy.

*shadow*

EF wrote: »

What do the pro-life group think about a circumstance where a person is in a vegetative state for whatever reason and dependant on a machine to keep them alive?

Should their loved ones have the right to choose their fate (i.e. euthanasia) or should the person in a vegetative state be in a position to live out their natural lives, as to interfere would end their life and effectively be murder..in some people's eyes.

I wouldnt want to live in that kind of a state and I wouldnt want my family to have to look after me either,

"Murder is the unlawful killing of an individual with malice and forethought" There is no malice involved in a situation where you end the life of a loved one who is suffering and has previously dissplayed a desire that they would never like to be left in that state.

Boston

JimiTime wrote: »

Knew her did you?

Her Public record speaks for itself.

Uncle Arthur

EF wrote: »

What do the pro-life group think about a circumstance where a person is in a vegetative state for whatever reason and dependant on a machine to keep them alive?

Should their loved ones have the right to choose their fate (i.e. euthanasia) or should the person in a vegetative state be in a position to live out their natural lives, as to interfere would end their life and effectively be murder..in some people's eyes.

absolutely not its basically same as abortion because you are killing that which has no voice!

if that person, however was terminally ill and in grave pain asking to be put out of their misery well that is a completely different kettle of worms. would be undecided on that but i personally would never be the one to actually kill the person asking me

Gauge

JimiTime wrote: »

Knew her did you?

The ex members of her order did.

ParkRunner

Uncle Arthur wrote: »

absolutely not its basically same as abortion because you are killing that which has no voice!

That is why I raised the point really, it is similar to abortion in that it may be immoral and against people's ideals but the reality is that it happens.

A person in a vegetative state for any appreciable amount of time would not have any quality of life and I don't think it is inhumane to end a life in circumstances where the chances of recovery are very slim.

Mr. Gruff

enda1 wrote: »

If you want real opinions, why post in AH?

I don't think you're likely to get any real (read: intelligent) opinions in the religion forum TBH.

JimiTime

Mr. Gruff wrote: »

I don't think you're likely to get any real (read: intelligent) opinions in the religion forum TBH.

He may have been referring to the humanities forum? Politics maybe? Don't let that stop you from spilling your ignorant anti-religion bile though. 'You believe in God, your stuuuupid', seems to be commonplace. An awful lot of intellectual insecurity it seems with the anti-god brigade.

orestes

Demonique wrote: »

Your logic is flawed

That was kinda the point.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

thebullkf

Gauge wrote: »

The ex members of her order did.

boll0cks... thats the first article anti-mother teresa i've ever seen...and it disgusts me:mad::mad::mad::mad:

and i [EMAIL="DON@T"]DON'T[/EMAIL] go to mass !!!

*shadow*

EF wrote: »

That is why I raised the point really, it is similar to abortion in that it may be immoral and against people's ideals but the reality is that it happens.

A person in a vegetative state for any appreciable amount of time would not have any quality of life and I don't think it is inhumane to end a life in circumstances where the chances of recovery are very slim.

But helping a loved one who's left in a vegative state is actually not the same as abortion..there is no hope for that person, it is obvious they are suffering and they have expressed a desire to nolonger continue living in such a state.

With an aborted child there is a future. As Ive siad before I am pro choice up to a certain point but I do not think unless for very restricted situations that it should be allowed after 12 weeks when the baby is no longer classed as being in the embryonic stages.

Societies whole perception towards it is so distorted, If there is an alternative which there nearly always is to some degree then then why put yourself through the damaging mental and phychological effects of an abortion?

Vinta81

Yes I would.

*shadow*

Vinta81 wrote: »

Yes I would.

Would what have an abortion? Is that if you forgot to use contraception or if you were raped?

Vinta81

*shadow* wrote: »

Would what have an abortion? Is that if you forgot to use contraception or if you were raped?

If I was raped, most certainly.

Having sex you run the obvious risk of getting pregnant, so abstinence is obviously the only way to prevent it, but if I did get pregnant I just don't think I could keep it. I'm only 20 and I just don't think I'd be able to properly provide for the baby, that said the thought of giving it up for adoption would also hurt.

It's a personal choice in my opinion, I repsect both sides of the argument, then again I'm not planning on having sex at the moment so not an issue for me

*shadow*

Vinta81 wrote: »

If I was raped, most certainly.

Having sex you run the obvious risk of getting pregnant, so abstinence is obviously the only way to prevent it, but if I did get pregnant I just don't think I could keep it. I'm only 20 and I just don't think I'd be able to properly provide for the baby, that said the thought of giving it up for adoption would also hurt.

It's a personal choice in my opinion, I repsect both sides of the argument, then again I'm not planning on having sex at the moment so not an issue for me

Thats fair enough

Vinta81

Glad you didn't eat my head off! I understand it's a touchy subject, but it is something I'vre thought of. Just hope I won't ever have to be in that situation.

Terry

WillieCocker wrote: »

Yea "Choice", you cannot get plainer than that.
War isn't tragic.........it's a fact of life.

"Abortion" on the other hand.........

Abortion on the other hand what?
War is man made.

Jakkass wrote: »

Blame those who actually brought it up then. The vast majority of the pro-life arguments made on this thread didn't invoke God at all.

Argue against abortion without mentioning God or the bible.
Can you do it?

Boston wrote: »

Mother Theresa was a ****.

Leave it out.

Gauge wrote: »

The ex members of her order did.

Oh no. People joined a cult and found out that it wasn't what they expected it to be shocker.
Call the Sun and tell them. Front page material.

Abortions for some.
Miniature Terry flags* for others.





*Coming soon to a shop near you.

ParkRunner

*shadow* wrote: »

With an aborted child there is a future. As Ive siad before I am pro choice up to a certain point but I do not think unless for very restricted situations that it should be allowed after 12 weeks when the baby is no longer classed as being in the embryonic stages.

Societies whole perception towards it is so distorted, If there is an alternative which there nearly always is to some degree then then why put yourself through the damaging mental and phychological effects of an abortion?

The reality is that the unborn child is wholly dependadnt on its mother until at least 20 weeks in the vast majority of cases. Developments in ultrasound technology have provided us with some very graphic images of abortion, especially in the case of late-term abortions. However, we may never know whether foetuses under the upper gestational limit actually feel pain. While graphic images show the foetus recoiling or scrunching up its face during an abortion, it does not indicate that pain is consciously felt.

The reactions of an unborn child, below the current upper gestational limit are believed to be a physiological or reflex reaction rather than a reaction to a conscious feeling of pain. In reality, most women who have an abortion do so at an early stage and generally women faced with the decision to have a late abortion do so under extremely difficult circumstances.

philologos

Terry wrote: »

Argue against abortion without mentioning God or the bible.
Can you do it?

Can other people do it is what you should be asking. Until it was brought up by Thaedydal and WindSock I did leave it out. I do believe in God however, and that is a motivation behind my belief in pro-life. This won't convince everyone as everyone is not a Christian however.

Infact, read the 9 posts I have linked in my signature, they represent clear reasoning that doesn't invoke God.

bronte

Terry wrote: »

Abortions for some.
Miniature Terry flags* for others.





*Coming soon to a shop near you.

Just

Terry

Jakkass wrote: »

Can other people do it is what you should be asking. Until it was brought up by Thaedydal and WindSock I did leave it out. I do believe in God however, and that is a motivation behind my belief in pro-life. This won't convince everyone as everyone is not a Christian however.

Infact, read the 9 posts I have linked in my signature, they represent clear reasoning that doesn't invoke God.

I have sigs turned off.

misssaucie

A friend of mine who already had a child was very much anti abortion but I always kept an open mind. and it was a bit of a bone of contention between us at times when we'd discuss it. Not that I agree with abortion but I always made the point to her that it really does depend on the situation you are in when an unexpected pregnancy happens. As it turned out her relationship (marraige) failed and after a one night stand with a guy she became pregnant. She realised that there was no way it would have been possible for her to keep this baby as she did not know the father of the child and and she already had one child from her previous relationship. We are talking about a very respectable woman who had a one night stand here and not a woman that would regualarly sleep around. I just think that until you are actually in a situation you have absolutely no right to judge the decisions that other people make. I admire women who are strong enough to be able to make this very very difficult decision.

JC 2K3

Jakkass wrote: »

Can other people do it is what you should be asking. Until it was brought up by Thaedydal and WindSock I did leave it out. I do believe in God however, and that is a motivation behind my belief in pro-life. This won't convince everyone as everyone is not a Christian however.

Infact, read the 9 posts I have linked in my signature, they represent clear reasoning that doesn't invoke God.

You were arguing from a position of life being sacred and morality being absolute. You didn't mention God, but your arguments were based on Christian assumptions.

philologos

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You were arguing from a position of life being sacred and morality being absolute. You didn't mention God, but your arguments were based on Christian assumptions.

There is a difference between ethics and morality.

Ethics: What is deemed appropriate to do.

Morality: Rights and wrongs. In Kant's view of morality if you hold morals you wish them to be universal. You cannot argue that someone is doing wrong unless you see it binding on them that they are doing something wrong. There is no point in arguing morals unless they are indeed absolute. Why on earth do people say to eachother "You ought to know better". They are appealing to their sense of morality which must be universal for others to relate to. (This is how C.S Lewis explains the Moral Law).

I think you and others on this thread hold to ethics. I.E the liberal "whatever floats your boat" type agenda. People like myself think that we need clear moral norms that transcend "what is appropriate to do" for society to operate effectively.

People can appeal to anothers sense of morality without specific reference to Christianity. We could get into discussing what the source of morals are all day. However that argument is also best suited to the Christianity or the Philosophy forum.

Rabies

CathyMoran wrote: »

Just on the issue of miscarriage - Rabies while I respect that you did not suffer terribly from your experience of miscarriage a lot of us have - for me it comes in waves and I am dreading the day when our baby was due to be born. I was speaking to an elderly relative who I knew had had miscarriages a long time ago - it still hurts for her as if it was yesterday. I know that I will think of our lost babies all the days of our lives.

There was no miscarriage. It was a 9/10 week termination. Sorry, wasn't clear earlier.
It wasn't the right time for both of us. We discussed it. Both of us were happy with the decision. We have brought it up since in general conversation. But there is no feelings for what could have been. We have since ended our relationship, but not due to that. I'm glad that there wasn't a child involved. I hate seeing kids involved in break ups.

Morrisseeee

Wow, very emotive thread.
I was adopted when I was a baby, I still don't know who my parents are ! I don't know if I ever will ! I don't know if I want to find out !
Hense, I've always felt like an alien in this world, ie. its wierd when you grow up in a world of people that are not related to you !!
Now that I have kids, they are the first people that I can really relate to !, my own flesh & blood.......
But I do know, that I'm glad I wasn't aborted ! so I could live and enjoy this wonderful/wierd world !!
/.....this post has been very emotive for me.......

WillieCocker

Terry wrote: »

Abortion on the other hand what?

Is making a decision to play "God"

War is man made.

.

So is almost every other bad thing in this world.

WindSock

So is every other bad thing in this world.

Like Cancer & Hurricanes?

WillieCocker

WindSock wrote: »

Like Cancer & Hurricanes?

Your just knitpicking and taking it out of context.