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Abortion

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    #632
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Whoa, wait a second. Where did Jakkass bring up God?

    His position on abortion may be because of his Christian beliefs, and indeed I called him on that, but he was very careful not to mention God until someone brought it up, and even at that, he didn't preach to anyone, just clarified aspects of his beliefs that he was asked about.

    This was the wrong thread to accuse Jakkass of Bible bashing, and why he was banned (as far as I can gather he was anyway) is beyond me. At least one well respected poster on here took the thread entirely off topic acting the muppet and got away with it.

    As much as I disagree with Jakkass, and as much as I find his debating style to be frustrating at times, I think he was harshly treated here...


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    #633
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So you think anybody who has sex should be financially secure enough and mentally ready to take care of a baby?
    Splendour wrote: »
    In a word-yes.

    Well I'm definitely financially secure enough, and probably emotionally ready for a baby, but don't want one. So by your logic I shouldn't have sex? Not very realistic is it? :confused:


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    #634
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Splendour wrote: »
    In a word-yes.

    That's crazy, you actually think that everyone that has sex, even using protection, should be able to take care of a baby?


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    #635
    Splendour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    Crumble Froo wrote: »
    so poor people can't have sex?

    oh dear god.

    Of course they can. They just have to be ready to make sacrifices should a pregnancy occur.


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    #636
    Splendour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    Malari wrote: »
    Well I'm definitely financially secure enough, and probably emotionally ready for a baby, but don't want one. So by your logic I shouldn't have sex? Not very realistic is it? :confused:

    If you are using protection then the chances of pregnancy occuring are pretty slim so you've no worries there, but in the chance a pregnancy does occur I don't think that gives the right to kill a child.


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    #637
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Splendour wrote: »
    If you are using protection then the chances of pregnancy occuring are pretty slim so you've no worries there, but in the chance a pregnancy does occur I don't think that gives the right to kill a child.

    Well for me, I don't think having the child then struggling to take care of both the baby and my GF is the best option,
    and as for putting the baby up for a adoption, I know my GF wouldn't want to go through 9 months of crazy hormones and body changing just to give the baby up.


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    #638
    Crumble Froo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    Splendour wrote: »
    Of course they can. They just have to be ready to make sacrifices should a pregnancy occur.

    i thought you said they had to be financially secure and mentally ready to have a baby.

    im poor. piss poor most of the time. and i couldnt financially handle having a kid, largely due to the time i'd have to take off work, and the fact that im not a resident of the country i live in. could not afford hospital bills. therefore, not allowed have sex.

    i get the feeling there's no point actually debating/arguing this one with you.


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    #639
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Crumble Froo wrote: »
    i thought you said they had to be financially secure and mentally ready to have a baby.

    im poor. piss poor most of the time. and i couldnt financially handle having a kid, largely due to the time i'd have to take off work, and the fact that im not a resident of the country i live in. could not afford hospital bills. therefore, not allowed have sex.

    i get the feeling there's no point actually debating/arguing this one with you.

    I suppose looking at it in reverse, you'd also have to be financially secure enough (obviously not as important) and mentally ready to have an abortion.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #640
    Crumble Froo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    K-9 wrote: »
    I suppose looking at it in reverse, you'd also have to be financially secure enough (obviously not as important) and mentally ready to have an abortion.

    an abortion is a once off payment...

    and mentally secure-wise... true. i believe in adequate counselling before and after an abortion if one wishes.

    i also believe that two consenting adults have the right to have sex together, particularly if they take precautions, eg, condoms, the pill, etc.


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    #641
    Ultravid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭Ultravid


    Abortion is the killing of an innocent human life and is gravely wrong.

    To find out more about abortion and what it does, you can visit www.abort73.com or the links in my signature.


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    #642
    bronte
    Registered Users Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    Ultravid wrote: »
    Abortion is the killing of an innocent human life and is gravely wrong.

    To find out more about abortion and what it does, you can visit www.abort73.com or the links in my signature.

    I'll get right on it :rolleyes:


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    #643
    Timans
    Registered Users Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Timans


    I'm always interested into why particular people believe murder is wrong?

    Not that I'm saying it's right or anything.


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    #644
    b28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭b28


    I understand this subject is open to many things.
    I hate abortion! I would never let one happen, but I understand my view can't dictate a girl who was suicidal if she had a child from lets say a rape. I think that girl should have support rather than condemnation.

    I dont like abortion but who am i or anyone to say anything on it!


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    #645
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ok, so just to sum up:

    Over 60% of people would have an abortion becuase it's not the right time in their life OR becuase they don't want to ruin their bodies.

    This info is going to come in handy next time I have a debate with my friends about abortion, thanks! :D

    *Mods, feel free to close this thread now.


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    #646
    almostnever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭almostnever


    Splendour wrote: »
    The original poster asked the above question. I thought my previous post was self explanatory, but obviously it wasn't but I'll try again.
    My take on abortion is if the poster and his GF couldn't handle a child then in my opinion they are no old enough/man/woman enough to have sex.

    I doubt I could handle a child. It's one of the many,many reasons why I don't want to have children. So,by your logic,I'll never be "woman enough" to have sex? Oh,please. How dare you even suggest that?

    Anyway,a bit more on topic,I'm pro abortion. As in,I would have one and I support the choice element,while also recognising that some people wouldn't have one even if they weren't ready for a baby etc.


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    #647
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,506 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    I would but I'm a man so I don't think it'll come up to be honest


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    #648
    Splendour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    almostnever wrote: »
    I doubt I could handle a child. It's one of the many,many reasons why I don't want to have children. So,by your logic,I'll never be "woman enough" to have sex? Oh,please. How dare you even suggest that?

    Anyway,a bit more on topic,I'm pro abortion. As in,I would have one and I support the choice element,while also recognising that some people wouldn't have one even if they weren't ready for a baby etc.

    My opinion is if one (be they male or female) cannot handle the responsibiliy of having a child then no they shouldn't have sex. How many threads do we see here on boards with the title 'Could I be pregnant?' If you're having sex then there's a darn good chance you might be! I'm always facsinated when I see these threads.
    Same goes for drinking; if one can't be responsibile when they drink then they should abstain, or driving; if one can't be responsible on the road then they shouldn't be driving.
    I have stated here before, and will do so again, that I never have nor will I ever judge anyone who has had an abortion. However,I am anti abortion and also pro choice-for the baby within the womb that is.


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    #649
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Splendour, what's your opinion on one leaving the house without wearing a thick layer of bubblewrap?


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    #650
    Rabies
    Registered Users Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    he he he.. a bubble wrap condom would be funny... 50 pops plus could lead to pregnancy :)


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    #651
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Splendour wrote: »
    My opinion is if one (be they male or female) cannot handle the responsibiliy of having a child then no they shouldn't have sex. How many threads do we see here on boards with the title 'Could I be pregnant?' If you're having sex then there's a darn good chance you might be! I'm always facsinated when I see these threads.
    Same goes for drinking; if one can't be responsibile when they drink then they should abstain, or driving; if one can't be responsible on the road then they shouldn't be driving.

    youre missing the fact that you CAN be responsible while having sex and still not want children, just as you can be responsible while driving and still have a crash


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    #652
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Helix wrote: »
    youre missing the fact that you CAN be responsible while having sex and still not want children, just as you can be responsible while driving and still have a crash

    The question is whether or not such grounds warrant the destruction and the death of human life. For me it's a resounding no.


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    #653
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Malari wrote: »
    Well I'm definitely financially secure enough, and probably emotionally ready for a baby, but don't want one. So by your logic I shouldn't have sex? Not very realistic is it? :confused:

    What he said makes sense to me.

    I didn't have sex until I was in my 20's when I was in a really good relationship, where I knew I could handle a baby if it happened. I would have been way too scared of getting pregnant as a teenager to have sex.

    Shock news: Sex makes babies, that is its primary function, you can try to stop it with contraception, but no method is fool proof.

    If you're going to do it, you should face up to the resposibility that it could bring, instead of using the killing of a human life as a back up option.


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    #654
    Splendour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    Helix wrote: »
    youre missing the fact that you CAN be responsible while having sex and still not want children, just as you can be responsible while driving and still have a crash

    I'm not missing this fact. Obviously contraception should be used if trying to avoid pregnancy but pregnancy can still occur.If this happens then responibility has to be taken for bringing a new life into the world.


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    #655
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    I found the recent Youth Defence march very reassuring. It seems the Choice lobby is made up mainly of young people, and the 'Life' lobby the very opposite. Its one of the last bastions of 'Little Old Catholic Ireland' and it will fall in time no doubt. You can't export something forever.


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    #656
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    I found the recent Youth Defence march very reassuring. It seems the Choice lobby is made up mainly of young people, and the 'Life' lobby the very opposite. Its one of the last bastions of 'Little Old Catholic Ireland' and it will fall in time no doubt. You can't export something forever.

    Pro-life opinion extends much further than on religious lines. People from many different religions and pro-life and I think it is dishonest to suggest that it is something of "Old Catholic Ireland" considering that there are pro-life movements all over the world with people of many different religions, and indeed no religion who advocate it.

    Mind you 37 - 38% polled here, is more encouraging than not.


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    #657
    sarahjayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭sarahjayne


    I voted no to abortion and would keep it. I was 17 when I got pregnant and at the time I thought it was the end of the world. But also knew it was my mistake so had to deal with the consequences. My baby is now 8 months old and the best thing that happened to me. I don't have a normal 18 year olds life but don't ever regret my decision


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    #658
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    I found the recent Youth Defence march very reassuring. It seems the Choice lobby is made up mainly of young people, and the 'Life' lobby the very opposite. Its one of the last bastions of 'Little Old Catholic Ireland' and it will fall in time no doubt. You can't export something forever.

    Guess you have never seen the pro-life atheists? They exist, some people just see abortion as killing human life and they cannot justify abortion as a solution.

    Choice lobby made up mainly of young people you say - lacking life experience maybe and knowing no better.....


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    #659
    Splendour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    I found the recent Youth Defence march very reassuring. It seems the Choice lobby is made up mainly of young people, and the 'Life' lobby the very opposite. Its one of the last bastions of 'Little Old Catholic Ireland' and it will fall in time no doubt. You can't export something forever.

    No doubt abortion will be legal in Ireland some day but as Jackass has said it is not only religious people who are anti abortion, there are many athiests who also feel this way.
    When you think about it, there is no stigma now to having a child out of wedlock as there was in the past thus there should be less of a need for abortion on these grounds. Tbh, I think people have become more selfish and run to have an abortion rather than face up to their responsibility.


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    #660
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    sarahjayne wrote: »
    I voted no to abortion and would keep it. I was 17 when I got pregnant and at the time I thought it was the end of the world. But also knew it was my mistake so had to deal with the consequences. My baby is now 8 months old and the best thing that happened to me. I don't have a normal 18 year olds life but don't ever regret my decision

    That was your choice though, for others in your situation choosing to keep the baby might not be the right choice for them. Nobody should be forced into that.


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    #661
    bronte
    Registered Users Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    Min wrote: »
    Guess you have never seen the pro-life atheists? They exist, some people just see abortion as killing human life and they cannot justify abortion as a solution.

    Choice lobby made up mainly of young people you say - lacking life experience maybe and knowing no better.....

    You know it's one thing to put forward your points and reasons for being pro life.
    It's another to be blatantly rude as you have in the above post and come out with something as condescending as that.
    How very dare you accuse the pro-choice side of lacking in life experience.
    You know nothing about each individual person.


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