Nct emissions failed-any tricks to share?

Frank_Leach

HI folks..
just failed nct for second time today, on bloody emissions, once again! i don't pretent to know a whole lot about these things, so i will try explain as simply as possible, and i hope some kind soul might offer imput in a simple manner too!

So, the results: First time...

Low Idle (710rpm) CO .28% PASS
High Idle (2750rpm) CO .70% FAIL
LAMBDA 1.015 (Between .97 - 1.03,) PASS.

In summary, high idle failed. Since then, it was suggested to me to run engine cleaner through the petrol, which i did. Two bottles of redex, and half a bottle of the rather expensive Lucas upper cylinder lubricant. Felt alot better to drie, but those pasky folk at the nct centre had other ideas.

Second time(Today)

Low Idle (710rpm) CO.28% PASS-SAME RESULT AS BEFORE.
High Idle (2750rpm) CO.51% FAIL - THOUGH IMPROVED ALOT
LAMBDA 1.012 (bETWEEN .97 - 1.03) PASS, AND SLIGHTLY IMPROVED.

I read a few posts here already, cant say i found my answer, but i did see that any previous exaust damage could be a factor? there was a hole in the exaust when i got it, i had it welded to stop the noise. from what i remember, it was a smallish hole and was simply covered.

Any feedback welcome guys, as you all know, i am on my last shot here, otherwise i have to get full retest......and, knowing my bloody luck it'll fail on new things by the time that coomes around...

One last thing...someone was telling me of a trick to get around this emissions prob short-term....something about an alcohol solution through the airfilters or something? yes, i know nothing, i am in need of wisdom today...much thanks!!

TURRICAN

make sure the engine is very hot going into the test preferably with the engine fan cutting in and out.make sure there is no leaks in the exhaust or in the pipe carrying air into the engine ,especially after all the sensors on the pipe.have you changed your spark plugs and air filter?

Darragh29

Haven't heard the one about the alcohol into the manifold but there are loads of urban myths out there and that particular one you've heard I can't see having any positive impact for you.

I'd bring it to a garage that has emissions test equipment and get it properly diagnosed.

Frank_Leach

I think the plugs and air filter was changed, but to be honest my last mechanic has been proven as a pure cowboy, so its possible none of that was done during sewrice-he is that bad!
Maybe time to go to a proper/expensive mechanic?
It's just the car is a clean 12 year old, and while i love it i dont want to spend a hell of a lot on it...you know how it goes
but thanks for your feedback, much appreciated! Keep em coming folks...i would also ask, does anyone know a "good" mechanic that can actually fix emission problems? think its fairly specialized

Frank_Leach

thanks darragh, there is alot of urban myths on smart solutions, but info is thin on the ground. your suggestion might be best, get off to a proper mechanic....this nct wouldnt be so bad, were it consistent from the start. that the state need fiunds quick because of their mismanagement...ah, enough of all that...thank you once again..

Atomic Pineapple

what was the engine oil temp on each test?

Mycroft H

Two tips that have worked for me:

1. Drive it like its stolen for several days before the test. Make sure the engine is right up to temp before the test

2. Remove the air filter before the test. Replace afterwords

Cosmo K

landyman wrote: »

Two tips that have worked for me:


2. Remove the air filter before the test. Replace afterwords

Nonsense!

What type of car is it? What year is the car?

FrankieD

It sounds that your trouble is the engine is not burning enough fuel, what was the HC reading?
Possible causes
blocked air filter
worn spark plugs or coil- engine misfire
Faulty sensor i.e air flow sensor or temp sensor.

If the HC are low I would prob go with temp sensor and check the usual air filter and plugs- would help to leave out air filter but beware of dirt gettin into engine. also leave car running while waiting on test

what make and model is it and is engine light on dashboard?

worst case senario is the cat converter but unlikely.

Fishtits

Agree, Make, Model, Mileage.

Doesn't sound terminal, more a sensor/actuator problem. Supply the above information and someone will point you in the right direction.

Adam Selene

Put some E95 in the tank, might get you under the limit.

professore

landyman wrote: »

2. Remove the air filter before the test. Replace afterwords

This is not nonsense, it works a dream for a diesel car at least, have seen it myself.

Frank_Leach

wow, thank you all for your responses. it's a 1997 mitsubishi lancer glx 1.3
It fails on hi-revs, though the petrol-treatment has helped somewhat.
The lambda passed each time, and it too got a better reading after the petrol treatment. the mechanic at the test centre was sound, i was chatting him before hand and jokingly/pleadingly said to him to go easy. he came back and said that he had tried his best, givin it a good rev before testing, but knew by the readings it was going to fail. all responses greatly appreciated, keep em coming. or, a contact to a decent mechanic who wont decimate my bank balance to fix this problem, would also be welcome

eringobragh

Grrrrrrr emissions!!! I've had 2 cars that had issues getting through this:

Back in November my high Idle was way over like 6.x % and I chanced throwing in a cat myself worked out at 80 quid for the part and she got through it

Where in Dublin are you based?

Frank_Leach

finglas, but travel to midlands at weekends....down to offaly. think the cat could do it? how much to get one fitted?

eringobragh

Frank_Leach wrote: »

finglas, but travel to midlands at weekends....down to offaly. think the cat could do it? how much to get one fitted?

I doubt its the cat but I could be wrong:

I'd imagine the CAT would be 300 -400 euro. I done mine myself and I can tell you its a bigger to get 14 year old bolts off!!

Anyhow I've PM'ed a decent HONEST mechanics number my GFs family use in the Artane area. Not sure if he's emissions diagnostic just give him a ring.

Cosmo K

professore wrote: »

This is not nonsense, it works a dream for a diesel car at least, have seen it myself.

In that case, your air filter was clogged up, why not just buy a new one?

Esel

Adam Selene wrote: »

Put some E95 in the tank, might get you under the limit.

Where can you buy that? E85, you mean.

Darragh29

Frank_Leach wrote: »

thanks darragh, there is alot of urban myths on smart solutions, but info is thin on the ground. your suggestion might be best, get off to a proper mechanic....this nct wouldnt be so bad, were it consistent from the start. that the state need fiunds quick because of their mismanagement...ah, enough of all that...thank you once again..

To be honest OP, once you have tried an additive and you're still nearly 100% over the CO limit, I'd bring it to a garage that can resolve it. Just be careful that you bring it to a garage that has the necessary emissions test equipment, you see it on here regularly enough, people driven f*cking mad because they brought their car to a garage, paid around 200-300 Euro, the garage changed the cat or the lambda sensor and didn't have the emissions test equipment to check that the problem had been fully resolved, the car goes back into the NCT for a re-test and fails again. Then the car is outside of the 28 day re-test window and needs to do a full test again, all because the garage didn't have the basic emissions test equipment to screen the job before they released the problem as rectified. There was a very recent thread on here where this happened...

Mycroft H

Cosmo K wrote: »

Nonsense!

What type of car is it? What year is the car?

Should work with any car. Unrestricted airflow into the engine, therefore less emissions

Cosmo K

landyman wrote: »

Should work with any car. Unrestricted airflow into the engine, therefore less emissions

Can you explain why? Are you saying, that by taking out the air filter, every engine becomes a 'lean burn' engine? Why not leave the air filter out all the time?

BrianD3

I doubt that removing the air filter will reduce the CO emissions in a modern fuel injected car. And if it was successful in lowering the CO, the car might then fail with a high lambda reading.

As Darragh says there is a lot of messing when it comes to the NCT emissions tests. It seems to go one of two ways. 1) A car fails by a significant margin and the owner or their mechanic decide that an Italian tune up, changing the air filter/spark plugs or using injector cleaner wil fix it. The car then usually fails its retest. 2) Mechanics who don't have the knowledge or equipment to do emissions diagnostics start replacing cats and lambda sensors and will probably stumble on the problem but may replace unnecessary parts and cost the owner money

Also, TBH, there is often bad advice given in this forum. Eg people recommending Dipetane and other products when a car has failed on CO by a big margin when even the manufacturer claims that Dipetane reduces CO emissions by *up to* 9.5%. Then you have cars failing for high lambda only and someone advises to give it an Italian tune up or to replace the lambda sensor...

Dartz

Ripping the air filter out will cause it to lean out dangerously. That, and you might suck up particles of god-knows-what into your engine.

Leaning the fuel off will make your car run hotter too, and might increase NoX emissions.

But, if your car's mechanically safe to drive, but only failing on emissions... Are emissions really that important? Bloody Green party.

Cosmo K

Bit of a rant....

....rant mode on/...


...I work for the NCT since 2003, I do between 12-18 full test a day, plus maybe 4-5 Re-tests. And that are just the cars that are booked in officially, we would do extra garage cars, cars that have been sold and need an NCT, as well as extra Re-tests for customers who are running out of time.

We don't get paid a bonus for doing these extra cars, we just try to help out. Now, I know , that not all my colleagues are helpful when it comes to doing extra tests, that are not booked in through the headoffice, but in my center, we really try to help the trade as well as the public. So if someone is stuck for a Re-test, we will usually do, even when he is not booked in.

Just ask us nicely:)

But what really pisses me of, are cars coming back for emmission Re-tests, that were never repaired properly, were some "magical" cure like that Dipetane Bull**** was tried, or were the airfilter was removed.....because that will definitely cure the problem, trust me, I heard it from Paddy in the pub.....or were the **** was driven out of a car for 2 days, coz that will really clear out the system, she will pass with flying colours my mechanic said.

Thats not how it works! You are wasting your time, and you are wasting my time!

Have the car repaired properly, have the emissions checked after the repair.
If your mechanic doesn't have an emissions tester and a diagnostic computer (OBD), you are watsing your money, look for a garage that has the necessary equipment. There are good garages out there who can really identify problems and fix them, don't waste your money on cowboys who work out of sheds.

Cowboys are good for standard jobs, like clutches and head gaskets, but not for diagnostic work.

....rant over/....

Frank_Leach

Thank you cosmo...
finally lads, you have it from an expert in the field. much appreciated cosmo, i personally have some clarity now.

I also have a contact address from a good place that specializes in emission test's and repairs. Having goneto mitsubishi dealerships only to be told of minimum 100 charge to diagnose the problem, i got put onto a long established company that is often described as the mechanic's mechanic. no doubt cosmo you prob heard of them..

65 euro to diagnose the problem, and the worst case scenario would be the cat replacement, which is approx 320 all in. it could be the oxigen sensor, which is only 35 euro to replace.

as you pointed out cosmo, i wasted my time with old wives tales,and now i am looking at a half day from work and the cost of another retest. My lesson here is, leave these things to the professionals.

So...for your emissions tests and repairs: Aiden Birmingham Fuel Injectors
Unit 94 Baldoyle
Industrial Estate.

I will go to him this coming wednesday, i am told i will not be dissapointed. his web address : http://www.abfis.com/

smash

why don't you just bring your car to fastfit and get them to check for leaks in the exhaust?

Adam Selene

esel wrote: »

Where can you buy that? E85, you mean.

Maxol garages.

E85 contains a higher ratio of hydrogen to carbon than the long chain alkanes used in petrol. Tjis means you get less CO2 and more H20 than you would with petrol

beachlife

hi there, the lamda reading is okay,what that means is your engine is okay(not running too rich or to lean) your low idle is okay (that means the cat is converting gases into less toxic gases at idle) your high idle is off ,that in my opinion points to an aging cat converter. A number of tests could be performed to check this and condem the cat. the easiest would be to get the car up to full temp and perform an scope test on the airflow/o2 sensor, also stick the car on the ramp and check the temp of the cat (ideally between 400 and 600 degree c) and also a temp drop of around 50 degree's c between the front and back of the cat,but leaving all that aside a simple check is look at the exhaust and if it's the original cat then it's probably broken!!!!! 12 years is a LONG time for a cat!!!

Esel

Adam Selene wrote: »

Put some E95 in the tank, might get you under the limit.

esel wrote: »

Where can you buy that? E85, you mean.

Adam Selene wrote: »

Maxol garages.

E85 contains a higher ratio of hydrogen to carbon than the long chain alkanes used in petrol. Tjis means you get less CO2 and more H20 than you would with petrol

My post did have a smilie, Adam. You said 'put some E95 in' originally...

trevm

If its failing on high idle only, its more than likely a cat problem