Enda Kenny - Right man for Taoiseach?

Marshy

This has come up in other threads so thought I'd see what the general consensus on Enda is.

Heard on Vincent Brown earlier that Enda's satisfaction rating is at 33%, which is shocking in my mind(if not surprising) considering FG as a whole were 19 points ahead of FF in the latest poll.

I think a fresh face is needed in FG to drive home their advantage.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0515/1224246568699.html

Belfast

Time for more than a change of face in fine geal.

holly1

Enda Kenny doesnot instil confidence,he is to weak.

brianthebard

Party leaders aren't important.

mick_ser

definetly time for a new face..enda kenny just comes across so bad!

nuttz

Personally, I'll be seriously considering emigration if he becomes taoiseach.
He doesn't instill confidence.

holly1

brianthebard wrote: »

Party leaders aren't important.

I think its very important to have a strong leader,and he doesnot come across as strong.Richard Bruton would make a very good Finance Minister.

teednab-el

mick_ser wrote: »

definetly time for a new face..enda kenny just comes across so bad!

nonsense, he is doing fine. We dont need to change him yet. Changing him may only cause FG's advantage to backfire. When is the last time FG were at 38% in the polls. Keep it going Enda.

InFront

I think he's the typical good statesman that Fine Gael traditionally go for. Fianna Fail tend to like their leaders to be rogues they'd want to go down the pub with. Personally, I don't care much for the latter, I would rather to see a strong team leader with some decency and honesty about him running this country. On the other hand, I can see that floating voters or those switching allegiances may not be so won over, and in that sense Enda's stifled reputation may be damaging to a small extent.

Anyway, I don't see it being as much of an issue in this election when the issues are far more serious than they were in the more blithely frivolous elections of 2002 and 2007. Back then personae were afforded a greater importance than some of the policies, but this has changed.

holly1

teednab-el wrote: »

nonsense, he is doing fine. We dont need to change him yet. Changing him may only cause FG's advantage to backfire. When is the last time FG were at 38% in the polls. Keep it going Enda.

Its not Enda Kenny who has them there,its the dislike of FF thats causing the 38% rise in the poll.People are just looking for change.

Sully

As I said in the topic covering the poll..

Sully wrote: »

Gilmore is a better speaker then Kenny and speaks much more freely. What he says warms with the peoples hearts and minds, which I think is starting to wear off. People were looking for someone for ages and Labour and Gilmore were there. Jumping on anything that would get them support. Gilmore was down here recently speaking about Waterford Crystal - which will score him points as its an issue that is so close to peoples hearts and there is a lot of anger with FFs lack of support about it. Gilmore is a much better communicator which is what the people see. Kenny doesn't have that spark but offers a very strong leadership skill set and presents an excellent party, picking the best squad. Gilmore is an instant hit with the people, while Kenny is slower to grow on people who don't actually see the man for what he really can offer and do for the country if he was elected. I guess you cant have everything!

Labour knock the government on everything. There never happy. There problem is; they offer nothing in return. There polices, compared to FG, are not great. There team overall is not as strong as FG. FG have the new support because not only are they hitting the government on issues that matter, there offering alternative plans on what they knock. There not jumping on everything and they will happily give the government a thumbs up on anything they consider good - no matter how small. Some of what FF are doing is based on FG plans. This explains why the party is doing better then Labour. I haven't covered the fact Labour still, to this day, wont rule out going into government with FF. Gilmore knows this is their weak point, but wants to be in power so will take the hit.

In short: Gilmore is a better speaker and presenter, knows what will make people happy and targets that. Not a strong leader, offers a poor team and will do anything to get into government. Kenny is a good speaker, but not as good as Gilmore. Very strong leadership and offers an excellent party and troops to pull this country together.

Iv left out Gerry Adams & Co. as there smaller party's who, at the moment, are not worth talking about in depth.

nesf

I think honestly it's the depth of the "bench" that matters more than the man at the front to a large extent, however; our system gives an untoward amount of power into the hands of the Taoiseach and this is problematic.

FG have a better "bench" than Labour do. Their Finance spokesperson and Health spokesperson are driving the debate in both areas at the moment, Labour's people in those areas are lagging badly behind.

You end up with our current situation, Gilmore is by far more popular than Kenny will ever be but the depth of FG's bench is what has them 18% ahead of Labour in the polls.

GalwayGunner

I don't think Fine Gael bench is particularly strong but that may just be due to the fact that they have been in opposition for so long that in general the irish public just aren't as familiar with them as they are with the shower on the Fianna Fail bench.

As for Kenny - really don't see him as a leader. When they are inevitably (and quite rightly) voted in I see real issues for him trying to keep all voices in his party/coalition in line once he has to start making the tough decisions.

latenia

From wikipedia:

The third child in a family of five, he was educated locally at St. Patrick's national school in Cornanool and St. Gerald's College (De La Salle) in Castlebar. Kenny later attended St Patrick's Teacher Training College in Dublin and University College Galway. He later worked as a primary school teacher.

There you have it. He worked as a primary school teacher for a couple of years until he was 24 and inherited his old man's seat. He has been a member of the Dáil for 34 years now-could someone point out just one significant thing he has done in all that time? Grossly unsuitable for high office.

teednab-el

holly1 wrote: »

Its not Enda Kenny who has them there,its the dislike of FF thats causing the 38% rise in the poll.People are just looking for change.

And If you want the FF party out of government then there is no other alternative to FF only FG. Labour and SF would join FF tomorrow if there was an agreement amongst the two.

And How do you know that Kenny wouldnt make a good taoiseach? Did you think Cowen would be a good taoiseach? Im sure you did.

nesf

GalwayGunner wrote: »

I don't think Fine Gael bench is particularly strong but that may just be due to the fact that they have been in opposition for so long that in general the irish public just aren't as familiar with them as they are with the shower on the Fianna Fail bench.

They don't have to be strong in absolute terms, they just need to be stronger than Labour's. The general public is actively looking for an alternative to FF at the moment with the current economic conditions. FG just need to look better than Lab to capture a large proportion of this surge.

holly1

teednab-el wrote: »

And If you want the FF party out of government then there is no other alternative to FF only FG. Labour and SF would join FF tomorrow if there was an agreement amongst the two.

And How do you know that Kenny wouldnt make a good taoiseach? Did you think Cowen would be a good taoiseach? Im sure you did.

No i did not nor did I vote for FF.

meglome

Kenny doesn't come across great, maybe that shouldn't matter but it does. I heard many people at the last election saying 'No way I'm voting for Kenny' kinda stuff. At the same time it seemed okay for Bertie to have bags of money he couldn't explain, which makes you wonder about the electorate in this country but anyway.

I'll be voting for his party but it would be a very good thing for someone like Richard Bruton to take over instead.

GalwayGunner

nesf wrote: »

They don't have to be strong in absolute terms, they just need to be stronger than Labour's. The general public is actively looking for an alternative to FF at the moment with the current economic conditions. FG just need to look better than Lab to capture a large proportion of this surge.

I agree with you. But honestly at the moment this isn't exactly a hard task for Fine Gael. Realistically Labour will never break into the Fianna Fail/Fine Gael level of support so now all FG have to do is:

1. Don't f up on a HUGE scale
2. Don't be Fianna Fail

But is this good enough for our country?? We should be voting for a real solution/alternative that will help us out of this mess - not just as a way of sticking 2 fingers up at FF.

teednab-el

meglome wrote: »

Kenny doesn't come across great, maybe that shouldn't matter but it does. I heard many people at the last election saying 'No way I'm voting for Kenny' kinda stuff. At the same time it seemed okay for Bertie to have bags of money he couldn't explain, which makes you wonder about the electorate in this country but anyway.

I'll be voting for his party but it would be a very good thing for someone like Richard Bruton to take over instead.

Enda Kenny has never been corrupt in his time in the dail. Why dont people judge him on that. If its one thing that this country needs in politics its honesty. I would be happy to vote for him as taoiseach on that alone. At least he would have the interests of the country at heart.

Many people were delighted to vote for Bertie and his corrupt politics. Its easy to fool so many people unfortuntely.

holly1

meglome wrote: »

Kenny doesn't come across great, maybe that shouldn't matter but it does. I heard many people at the last election saying 'No way I'm voting for Kenny' kinda stuff. At the same time it seemed okay for Bertie to have bags of money he couldn't explain, which makes you wonder about the electorate in this country but anyway.

I'll be voting for his party but it would be a very good thing for someone like Richard Bruton to take over instead.

I think Richard would make a great Finance Minister.;)

nkay1985

As I said in a thread in the Waterford Forum:

nkay1985 wrote:

I don't know will Enda ever score high enough to show that people want him as Taoiseach. I think he's done an amazing job with Fine Gael, bridging rifts and getting them moving in a better direction. But the man has got zero charisma and is completely unpersonable. I believe that Fine Gael will form the next government and we'll effectively be stuck with him as Taoiseach, even though the majority of people won't want him!

I heard the point raised a few days ago that people seem to forget how truly awful he was in the debate with Bertie (hardly a formidable opponent). This is the man who will next lead our country and I'm saddened by that fact.

Then:

nkay1985 wrote: »

Well I'll leave you off with it this time. You're right to say the others aren't worth talking about at the moment. But I would extend that to Gilmore; I don't think that there are any circumstances that can transpire in the next (insert how long you think it'll be until the next General Election here) that would make Labour the biggest party in the country and Gilmore the Taoiseach.

FG will win the next election. They will be in government short of some serious sly dealing on the part of the other parties. And Enda Kenny will be Taoiseach by consequence, not due to any brilliance (or any anything IMO) on his part.

I went to see him speak in UL before the last Generals to give him a chance. I lived with the Vice President for YFG at the time and had given him such a hard time about Kenny that he told me to go see him in person and see what I thought. I have never been so underwhelmed by any individual in my entire life. The man had no presence in a room of 50 20-year-old students for God's sake! And he got his ass handed to him in a debate by Bertie Ahern!

If we have to have FG in government, I would prefer that it wasn't he who leads them there. I would be more confident in the likes of Richard Bruton in the job. (How about George Lee becomes Minister for Finance, Bruton becomes Leader and Kenny is asked to move shoved sideways under pretence of family issues or some sort of thing! Solve the problem straight away.

teednab-el

holly1 wrote: »

No i did not nor did I vote for FF.

Well, at least you had sense.

nesf

GalwayGunner wrote: »

But is this good enough for our country?? We should be voting for a real solution/alternative that will help us out of this mess - not just as a way of sticking 2 fingers up at FF.

Welcome to Irish politics. We hope you enjoy your stay. Please divest yourself of any original political thinking or national concerns at the door and help yourself to one of our many brochures on hot local issues to concern yourself with.

meglome

teednab-el wrote: »

Enda Kenny has never been corrupt in his time in the dail. Why dont people judge him on that. If its one thing that this country needs in politics its honesty. I would be happy to vote for him as taoiseach on that alone. At least he would have the interests of the country at heart.

Many people were delighted to vote for Bertie and his corrupt politics. Its easy to fool so many people unfortuntely.

Look I agree with you. But see what happened to Labour in the UK when Blair left, people just don't like Brown as much. Having a charismatic or even a charming leader is very helpful, look at what Bertie got away with.

teednab-el

meglome wrote: »

Look I agree with you. But see what happened to Labour in the UK when Blair left, people just don't like Brown as much. Having a charismatic or even a charming leader is very helpful, look at what Bertie got away with.

THere is that side of the argument as well which I accept. But the way I see it, I believe Bruton would be far more effective in his present position. You couldnt just put Lee into Finance on the first attempt. Eventhough Lee is a smart and highly respected economist, he is an inexperienced politician. He needs to learn a few tricks of the trade before moving over to the role of finance.

meglome

teednab-el wrote: »

THere is that side of the argument as well which I accept. But the way I see it, I believe Bruton would be far more effective in his present position. You couldnt just put Lee into Finance on the first attempt. Eventhough Lee is a smart and highly respected economist, he is an inexperienced politician. He needs to learn a few tricks of the trade before moving over to the role of finance.

I hear ya but I'd still be for Bruton as leader and Lee at finance. We'd have two top finance guys in top positions right when we need it.

Dalfiatach

I used to think he was just a lightweight eejit. I still thinks he comes across very poor on de telly. And losing that debate to Bertie - a man who can't string a coherent sentence together - was damn poor form. Last election I was an ABFF floater and ended up going for the Greens by default then transferring to Lab and FG and SF, largely because of that debate. Look where that got me LOL.

But he's growing on me. The last 2 years we've seen him put a decent front bench team together, he got them churning out the policy proposals (and very good some of them are too), they're all working well together, the FG party is obviously united, coherent and all fired up, they've basically doubled their support in the last few years and are now within shouting distance of an overall majority. FG on 38%, jaysus if you'd told me that at any time in the last 10 years I'd have called the men in white coats.

I think now maybe Kenny is more than he appears. He's reminding me of a manager I had years ago. Quiet fella, we didn't think much of him when he arrived, but the thing was - he thought slow, but deep. When he found his voice and spoke at meetings, people learned to listen. He thought things through before speaking, didn't just shoot his mouth off. When he came up with a plan, it was a bloody good one. And because he was a decent chap (dull, but fair, and at the same time took no nonsense either from us or from the higher-ups) and we had confidence he would make the right call, we worked like demons.

I think Kenny is the same kind of lad. He has a strong team and he's happy to let them get on with their areas of expertise. It's not "me me me pay attention to me" with him, it's "who is best in which job, and how can I best encourage and organise my team to get the best results".

And that'll do me, that's probably just what the country needs after the disasters Bertie and Cowen. A good strong team organised by a calm sensible coach, focused on getting results not acting the big man.

hallelujajordan

brianthebard wrote: »

Party leaders aren't important.

I think that's wrong. . You will remember in the last GE nearly all the FF posters in every constituency had pictures of Bertie on them . . Had Cowen taken over FF before the last election I think you would have seen a vastly different result. .

And I think it is telling that Enda's personal rating is lagging so far below the overall FG rating and only looks good because of Cowens poor result. . with the shift in support to FG that we are seeing Kenny should be seeing personal approval ratings in the 50's or higher. .

That said, I think FG have missed the boat in terms of changing a leader before the next GE . . If you assume it is going to happen this year then it would be crazy to change anything now !

jmayo

nuttz wrote: »

Personally, I'll be seriously considering emigration if he becomes taoiseach.
He doesn't instill confidence.

Good I'll be roudn to help you pack.
We need less FF voters and apologists in this country.

BTW do you think the two brians and mary instill confidence ?

GalwayGunner wrote: »

I don't think Fine Gael bench is particularly strong but that may just be due to the fact that they have been in opposition for so long that in general the irish public just aren't as familiar with them as they are with the shower on the Fianna Fail bench.

As for Kenny - really don't see him as a leader. When they are inevitably (and quite rightly) voted in I see real issues for him trying to keep all voices in his party/coalition in line once he has to start making the tough decisions.

Weren't you in another thread a few weeks ago asking if the government were really that bad and that you wre out of the country in Oz for the last year ?
The FG front bench is ten times stronger than FG/GP.
Dear Good look at the Lenihans, Coughlan, Cullen, Dempsey, Harney.

So far he has managed to keep most of the eejits in check, see his dealings with Creighton and the ultimate spanner Deasy.

Kenny comes across as cr** on TV and he is much better on a one to one basis. Of course half the country want someone they can go drinking with it seems :rolleyes:
We are following the US model, which ok has thrown up the ultimate chasimatic leader Obama but remember it also gavre them Bush

But he must have done something right within his own party, FG were almost heading the way of the PDs after 2002. He glavanised the party, travelled the country and look who put on the front bench, people who actually seem to know what they are talking about. George Lee will probably be another high profile addition.

I don't want a leader of the country that I can see singing on a table top or co-presenting the Premiership.
It is those great f***ing charismatic leaders that have us in the sh** we are in.
I want someone that is honest, hardworking, takes responsibility, fires people,
takes decisions and isn't in the pocket of the CIF, the unions and the bankers.

brianthebard

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I think that's wrong. . You will remember in the last GE nearly all the FF posters in every constituency had pictures of Bertie on them . . Had Cowen taken over FF before the last election I think you would have seen a vastly different result. .

And I think it is telling that Enda's personal rating is lagging so far below the overall FG rating and only looks good because of Cowens poor result. . with the shift in support to FG that we are seeing Kenny should be seeing personal approval ratings in the 50's or higher. .

That said, I think FG have missed the boat in terms of changing a leader before the next GE . . If you assume it is going to happen this year then it would be crazy to change anything now !

Sorry what I meant was that party leaders aren't important to the actual running of a government. If people are foolish enough to vote for a party based on who the leader is then there's really not much I can say there. But I do die a bit inside every time I hear people say they won't vote for a party because their leader isn't a massive slab of charisma. I think its a hangover from JFK or something that people think politicians should be full of charisma, cause I can certainly think of more political leaders who weren't impressive in that way than were. And even people like Blair and Ahern who people sometimes say were charismatic never did anything for me, quite the opposite they are slimebags, but they are seen as charismatic because they smiled a lot on tv and made an odd joke or whatever. That's a sign of just how low the bar is in terms of how people perceive good leaders, that those two are considered charismatic.