Enda Kenny - Right man for Taoiseach?

irish_bob

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I think that's wrong. . You will remember in the last GE nearly all the FF posters in every constituency had pictures of Bertie on them . . Had Cowen taken over FF before the last election I think you would have seen a vastly different result. .

And I think it is telling that Enda's personal rating is lagging so far below the overall FG rating and only looks good because of Cowens poor result. . with the shift in support to FG that we are seeing Kenny should be seeing personal approval ratings in the 50's or higher. .

That said, I think FG have missed the boat in terms of changing a leader before the next GE . . If you assume it is going to happen this year then it would be crazy to change anything now !

i agree that fine gael should have changed kenny a while back , kenny is the difference between fine gael forming the next goverment with labour ( per usual) and fine gael for the 1st time forming a goverment without labour

labours drop is evidence that thier absolute refusal to come out in favour of any real public sector reform has not gone down well with the general public , its a green light for fine gael to move more to the right and call for outright reform of the public sector and also , the redicolously generous wellfare state , we are in unprecedented times , life long fianna fail voters are deserting the party , what was unthinkable for decades is now a real possibility , fine gael can lead without having to wear the concrete shoes that are LABOUR , the only thing stopping such an eventuality is KENNY

as such the longer we go without a general election the better , if IVAN YATES could be persuaded to make a return , with him as leader , fine gael would romp home

guinnessdrinker

I like Kenny, I think he comes across as a good honest politician, something that we are possibly not used to in this country.

One of my friends told me that when they interviewed him one time that he was one of the most genuine people that they had ever interviewed and was believe it or not actually charismatic.

Ardent

holly1 wrote: »

I think its very important to have a strong leader...

Not it's not. A party is more than just about one person.

meglome

Ardent wrote: »

Not it's not. A party is more than just about one person.

But this is the thing, it shouldn't necessarily be important that a party have a strong charismatic leader but in practise it is important.

Liam Byrne

brianthebard wrote: »

If people are foolish enough to vote for a party based on who the leader is then there's really not much I can say there.

It's worse than that, btb.....remember that this was the same Bertie that - despite a confusing array of unanswered (or avoided) questions, had a myriad of question marks hanging over him and people STILL viewed him as "sound-out".

Enda should have a decent shot; that's not an over-compliment, because the alternatives are woeful and deluded.

Pat Rabbitte would be the best option at the mo, but he's no longer leader; Gilmore or Kenny might see us through, and regardless of either's shortcomings at least neither is deluded or tainted by condoning corruption, incompetence and greed.

Mr.Micro

meglome wrote: »

But this is the thing, it shouldn't necessarily be important that a party have a strong charismatic leader but in practise it is important.

I agree Brown replaced Blair, the latter had a certain charisma. Cowan replaced Ahern,again a certain charisma for some, but both replacements are dull and humourless and do not come across well.

guinnessdrinker

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I agree Brown replaced Blair, the latter had a certain charisma. Cowan replaced Ahern,again a certain charisma for some, but both replacements are dull and humourless and do not come across well.

For me, I thought Blair had charisma but never in a million years did Ahern come across well, not to me anyway.

gandalf

How people can call Kenny incompetent in one breathe and support the pack of halfwits and morons that are leading this country at the moment is beyond me.

Kenny doesn't inspire confidence from looking at him initially but as someone has already said he has done something right as I believe Fine Gael are now in a position to mount a decent challange and to deliver a definite alternative to the absolute disaster that is in Government at the moment.

I mean the last FF Taoiseach before the disaster Cowan had the common touch, was the type of person apparently that the majority wanted to have a pint with, was let wrongly by RTE present a sports programme. He obviously filled people with confidence and the majority of FF drones were happy with him. Firstly I have always been suspicious of him, I cringed when he made speeches. He turned out to be very responsible didn't he. Investigations turned up he never had a bank account when he was finance minister. He got various hand outs from people who benefited in various ways from him being in Government and he helped to send us down the road to ruin by instead of addressing the economies over reliance on the property sector to encouraging it more. When things started to go pear shaped he fecked off, left us with someone who is not capable to do the job and Ahern doesn't even bother to turn up and do his basic duty as a TD and take part in votes.

Is that the type of leadership you want Marshy?

Mr. Presentable

Don't like Enda Kenny at all. He seems to spend all his efforts on negativity and little on offering solutions. Does not inspire, and is without charisma, it seems to me, to anyone outside Mayo.

TBH, I think he is the luckiest man in politics having not won the last GE.

Does he still get teacher's salary for his half hour 34 years ago that he spent in the classroom?

brianthebard

nipplenuts wrote: »

Don't like Enda Kenny at all. He seems to spend all his efforts on negativity and little on offering solutions. Does not inspire, and is without charisma, it seems to me, to anyone outside Mayo.

*rips out hair*

How exactly is he supposed to inspire? Is he a politician or an artist's muse? I really don't know what people expect from politicians any more.

teednab-el

nipplenuts wrote: »

Don't like Enda Kenny at all. He seems to spend all his efforts on negativity and little on offering solutions. Does not inspire, and is without charisma, it seems to me, to anyone outside Mayo.

TBH, I think he is the luckiest man in politics having not won the last GE.

Does he still get teacher's salary for his half hour 34 years ago that he spent in the classroom?

And you would be happy to keep Cowen and Coughlan in office?:rolleyes: Im sick of this lack of charisma nonsense about Enda Kenny. No point having charisma if your intention is to scr*w the Irish economy like the last bunch of thieves. Time for change and time for Kenny to lead the country.

briktop

you think enda kenny has no charisma -

with that fat slug lipped turd cowen as taoiseach ?

have you been to specsavers ?

gandalf

Maybe if Enda starts drinking Bass the FF drones will respect him more LOL!!

Marshy

gandalf wrote: »

How people can call Kenny incompetent in one breathe and support the pack of halfwits and morons that are leading this country at the moment is beyond me.

I definitely don't support the current government, but that doesn't take away from Enda's inadequacy for the job in my view. He has no credibility.

Is that the type of leadership you want Marshy

Again, just to recap, no I've never once stated I approve of Cowen. Enda may be honest, hard-working and incorruptible(we may just see about that) but are these traits alone good enough to justify being leader of the country in their own right? I think not. As a previous poster asked, what has Enda done in his 34 years as a TD? Failed to get FG into government for one and I truly believe he was the one largely responsible for that.

nuttz

jmayo wrote: »

Good I'll be roudn to help you pack.
We need less FF voters and apologists in this country.

Now, now James there is no need to be like that.

gandalf

Marshy wrote: »

I definitely don't support the current government, but that doesn't take away from Enda's inadequacy for the job in my view. He has no credibility.

How can he have no credibility if he hasn't been tried. A lot of people expected Cowan to do a lot better than he has. Were you in that camp as well?

Again, just to recap, no I've never once stated I approve of Cowen. Enda may be honest, hard-working and incorruptible(we may just see about that) but are these traits alone good enough to justify being leader of the country in their own right? I think not. As a previous poster asked, what has Enda done in his 34 years as a TD? Failed to get FG into government for one and I truly believe he was the one largely responsible for that.

Well unlike Bertie Ahern he hasn't arsefuked the country from a height either so I would suggest he should be given an opportunity because you seem to agree with everyone he couldn't do a worse job than the failure that is currently infecting the Taoiseachs position in government.

Marshy

gandalf wrote: »

How can he have no credibility if he hasn't been tried. A lot of people expected Cowan to do a lot better than he has. Were you in that camp as well?

He has no credibility as leader of FG. And I'm obviously not alone in thinking that, only 1 in 3 people satisfied with him. That means there's a substantial enough number of FG supporters unhappy with him too.

Did anyone expect the economy to disintegrate as quickly as it did? Some may claim to have foreseen it but even George Lee or David McW wouldn't pretend to have predicted everything that has happened. My point is that Cowen came in at a time when the economy was still functioning ok, so no I didn't see it coming. Don't get me wrong he's been a poor leader but its unfair to portion all the blame on him. Look at other countries in a similar boat to us now.

I could see Enda doing at least as bad a job tbh, I'd much rather have someone like Bruton at the helm.

r0nanf

Marshy wrote: »

I definitely don't support the current government, but that doesn't take away from Enda's inadequacy for the job

Marshy wrote: »

He has no credibility as leader of FG...I could see Enda doing at least as bad a job tbh

It is outrageous how people can decide that someone is not suitable before seeing them work. As per previous posts, he has united a party that was falling apart at the seams and has made good front bench postings. He could turn out to be a turd, but you cannot decide that just because you don't like the cut of him or whatever your 'scale of ability' is based on.

If you're going to talk about "credibility" apparently Cowen had plenty of that when Bertie passed on the torch. I am not a FG supporter, but I think the constant flittering of Kenny is senseless. He may not dole out the soundbites like Rabbitte did, or have the everyman bullsh*t mask of Bertie, or the bullishness of Cowen, but he has succesfully managed FG. For me that's worth a lot more.

IIMII

Is Enda Kenny the right man for the job as next Taoiseach?

Not on yer Nelly

brianthebard

Marshy wrote: »

He has no credibility as leader of FG. And I'm obviously not alone in thinking that, only 1 in 3 people satisfied with him. That means there's a substantial enough number of FG supporters unhappy with him too.

Define credibility.

Liam Byrne

Marshy wrote: »

Again, just to recap, no I've never once stated I approve of Cowen. Enda may be honest, hard-working and incorruptible(we may just see about that) but are these traits alone good enough to justify being leader of the country in their own right? QUOTE]

Since the alternative IS Cowen (and the previous was Ahern) then honest, hard-working and incorruptible is a HUGE improvement.

Yes, if there were "better" guys in the running, we'd probably pick them. But there aren't.

And the above 3 traits are MILES better than the dishonest pass-the-buck dossers who've condoned corruption.

So - unless someone suggests someone even better (I suggested Rabbitte above, but he's out of the running, unfortunately) it's a no-brainer.

Mr. Presentable

brianthebard wrote: »

*rips out hair*

How exactly is he supposed to inspire? Is he a politician or an artist's muse? I really don't know what people expect from politicians any more.

Yeah, maybe I didn't make myself clear. He doesn't inspire hope or belief in what he represents.

Also, credibility, [n] - the quality of being believable or trustworthy

Mr. Presentable

teednab-el wrote: »

And you would be happy to keep Cowen and Coughlan in office?:rolleyes: .

That's not what I said, though. It is apparent a change needs to be made, I am saying, however, that Enda Kenny is not the best change.

Mr. Presentable

briktop wrote: »

you think enda kenny has no charisma -

with that fat slug lipped turd cowen as taoiseach ?

have you been to specsavers ?

I refer you to post 54.........

gandalf

IIMII wrote: »

Is Enda Kenny the right man for the job as next Taoiseach?

Not on yer Nelly

So who do you reckon. Lets look at the ranks of FF at the moment.

Coughlan, Cullen, Dempsey, Martin, Hanafin, you have to be on drugs to choose from that crowd of didderers. The only one that might have been good as Taoiseach from Fianna Failure is Dermot Ahern but given the complete and utter mess he has made of the gang wars and the attempt to address illegal gun crime by cracking down on legally held firearms he has proven himself to be a lame duck as well. Against the catalogue of failure and incompetence that is the Fianna Fail and Greena Fail front benches I would choose Enda Kenny any day.

People are citing the polls as their reason that Kenny would not make a good Taoiseach but the polls show the reason he should be. FG are at a rating in the polls I thought a few years ago they would never be at ever again. For that alone the man has shown he has the ability to lead.

Sorry if he doesn't meet your standards of leader, one that panders to the masses while ensuring the few benefit and the many are left the take the pain of cleaning up the mess that has been left behind from the excess and greed.

One thing is for certain he isn't a Charvet Charlie or a Teflon Bertie and thats another reason to give the man a chance.

(oh and just for clarity I am not a member of FG and I didn't even give them a high preference last time I voted. I am a former member of the labour party who used to vote green as his second preference).

brianthebard

nipplenuts wrote: »

Yeah, maybe I didn't make myself clear. He doesn't inspire hope or belief in what he represents.

Also, credibility, [n] - the quality of being believable or trustworthy

How is he untrustworthy? Unbelievable? He said he would bring the FG party back from the brink that it was left on in the election previous to 2007, and he delivered on that. In 2002 pundits and political observers almost universally declared the death of FG, and now because of Kenny they are in the strongest position they've had in well over a decade. What is unbelievable in that?
So many people keep pointing the the fantastic front bench he's amassed and say one of them should be leader instead-did it occur to any of you that those same front benchers believe in what he represents? Why do you think capable men like Bruton are happy to be lieutenant and not captain? Because they feel he has done an excellent job. You should learn from those people you feel are good at their jobs. And you should also note that like Gandalf I am not a FG voter, but I recognise the good work that Kenny has done for his party.

is_that_so

mick_ser wrote: »

definetly time for a new face..enda kenny just comes across so bad!

nuttz wrote: »

Personally, I'll be seriously considering emigration if he becomes taoiseach.
He doesn't instill confidence.

Nor would Roosevelt as a man in a wheelchair. Looking at how FF have performed over the the last 5-10 years, there are many more names that screwed up more badly than the party leader.As they say you are only as good as your weakest link and FF has them in abundance. Kenny is a good politician, he gets votes and he instils confidence in the people who matter; those in his party who go out and campaign for the votes. He may not come across as ruthless and is far less charismatic than some. As I've said before it's not a beauty contest and the idea is to pick the best team. Sometimes we do actually have to think about why we are voting. If we use shallow excuses like his lack of charisma or not inspiring confidence then we get what we deserve.

Marshy

r0nanf wrote: »

It is outrageous how people can decide that someone is not suitable before seeing them work. As per previous posts, he has united a party that was falling apart at the seams and has made good front bench postings. He could turn out to be a turd, but you cannot decide that just because you don't like the cut of him or whatever your 'scale of ability' is based on.

I can judge the man on his political record up to now and as I've said all along there's not much to write home about.

If you're going to talk about "credibility" apparently Cowen had plenty of that when Bertie passed on the torch. I am not a FG supporter, but I think the constant flittering of Kenny is senseless. He may not dole out the soundbites like Rabbitte did, or have the everyman bullsh*t mask of Bertie, or the bullishness of Cowen, but he has succesfully managed FG.

Let's keep FF and their failings(which I've acknowledged) out of this thread please. We're talking about a possible successor to Cowen.

brianthebard wrote: »

Define credibility.

As said already, to have people's full trust and belief and also having a clear presence.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, if there were "better" guys in the running, we'd probably pick them. But there aren't.

And the above 3 traits are MILES better than the dishonest pass-the-buck dossers who've condoned corruption.

So - unless someone suggests someone even better (I suggested Rabbitte above, but he's out of the running, unfortunately) it's a no-brainer.

I already said that even Bruton would be much better equipped than Enda for the job.

gandalf wrote: »

People are citing the polls as their reason that Kenny would not make a good Taoiseach but the polls show the reason he should be. FG are at a rating in the polls I thought a few years ago they would never be at ever again. For that alone the man has shown he has the ability to lead.

FG definitely don't owe their current popularity to him, most of the electorate are turning their back on FF which was bound to happen and for many FG are the only other party capable of taking over. If anything they'd have a bigger lead without Enda, the fact he's lagging behind their figure in the polls says it all imo.

brianthebard wrote: »

How is he untrustworthy? Unbelievable?

I'm not saying he lies, its that people don't trust in him/believe him, there's a difference. Its like if he said "I'm going to get us out of this mess", he may well mean it but few people would have confidence that he could.

hallelujajordan

gandalf wrote: »

So who do you reckon. Lets look at the ranks of FF at the moment.

Coughlan, Cullen, Dempsey, Martin, Hanafin, you have to be on drugs to choose from that crowd of didderers. The only one that might have been good as Taoiseach from Fianna Failure is Dermot Ahern but given the complete and utter mess he has made of the gang wars and the attempt to address illegal gun crime by cracking down on legally held firearms he has proven himself to be a lame duck as well. Against the catalogue of failure and incompetence that is the Fianna Fail and Greena Fail front benches I would choose Enda Kenny any day.

People are citing the polls as their reason that Kenny would not make a good Taoiseach but the polls show the reason he should be. FG are at a rating in the polls I thought a few years ago they would never be at ever again. For that alone the man has shown he has the ability to lead.

Sorry if he doesn't meet your standards of leader, one that panders to the masses while ensuring the few benefit and the many are left the take the pain of cleaning up the mess that has been left behind from the excess and greed.

One thing is for certain he isn't a Charvet Charlie or a Teflon Bertie and thats another reason to give the man a chance.

(oh and just for clarity I am not a member of FG and I didn't even give them a high preference last time I voted. I am a former member of the labour party who used to vote green as his second preference).

Even though you keep trying to drag it that way the debate really isn't about Fianna Fail versus Fine Gael . . It is about Enda Kenny's suitability as taoiseach and his ability to capitalise on the mess that FF have created... FF have imploded and are polling at their lowest rating, probably in the history of the state . . while FG are picking up some of this vote they are not picking up all of it and the reason why is evident when you compare the Enda Kenny rating to the FG rating. . .(Look at the same comparison for Labour / Gilmour) . .

If the current trend were to continue and if FF were to collapse in the local and European elections we are likely to have a General Election, one which if FG had a strong leader they would be realistically targetting an overall majority. . with Enda the best they can hope for is a FG/Lab coalition.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

gandalf wrote: »

How people can call Kenny incompetent in one breathe and support the pack of halfwits and morons that are leading this country at the moment is beyond me.

That's ridiculous.

Kenny is incompetent in his own right, it's nothing to do with the present government. Saying you don't like Kenny isn't a nod of support for FF.

Kenny is a worker, not a leader. Top bloke, but not someone you'll want to listen to on TV.

It's time FG realised that he's holding them back.