Photography career

fifomania

is it hard being a photographer in Ireland?
I contacted a local photographer, who is really successful and has been working for years, and she said it's hard to make ends meet so anyone planning a photography career should look in to graphic design or framing as well.
I've always loved to take pictures and all sides of photography and have applied to do some portfolio courses with the hope of getting to study Photography at 3rd level.
But I've also applied for what you could call a 'sensible' course which would lead to steady employment. My family are hesistant about the photography course because it's 'unsteady' work.
What are people's opinions? Is it hard to get started? Is there a lot of work out there for photographers?
Thanks so much.

mehfesto2

Howdy.

Im kind f in the same boat as yourself.

I was a trainee nurse, but realised by love was photography, so I took a course of communications/Photography up. Life's too short to be in a steady job that you don't love. The best advice I ever got was form a patient one week before I left the health service:

"If you love it, you'll work hard at it, you'll want to do things others won't. You'll never work a day in your life and you can look back fondly. I can anyway."

I can't say whether photography is steady or not, or whether or not you need another job, but just to say that if you really, really want it, nobody can stop you from making it.

smelltheglove

Well said mehfesto, if you want it you can do it. I am at it over a year properly, working weddings, portrait sessions, boxing and social events and in that year I have not advertised any more than a small ad and earned a few bob, ok not enough to say I'm well of, not near, but most businesses make a loss in their first year, I have made a profit and that is including all the equipment I have bought also.

Ok so its not steady to begin with but if you rate yourself and build a good reputation give it a few years and it will be steady. I never got to work, I go and enjoy myself!

AnCatDubh

hey. follow your heart - you will have a much happier life for it.

with photography remember that you start with an audience of one (yourself) - thereafter you build your niche, your audience, those who like your work and importantly - those who will pay for your week.

it is never easy getting going. no one's going to come to you with a weekly wage. this you'll have to figure out how to achieve it yourself.

your folks will love you no matter what you do - it's their job to worry for you when you don't.

simply - follow your heart.

CabanSail

Maybe you could look at the Photography Options in the area of a "Steady Course"

If you are going to get out there doing the normal Weddings & General Photography then you will be competing with a lot of other people, most of whom are already established. If you have some specialist training it can open a niche market that a lot of others will not have the access you have because it will be an area that you know. That way you get the best of both worlds.

MarthaT

"Do what you love and you will never go to work a day in your life." Some once told me that and I've found it very true. Become the best photographer you can be and you will always have clients

Ricky91t

Currently in the same boat at this,Will be going to DIT in Sept 2010 to do the 4 years BA hons degree,Taking a year out to improve my portfolio and possibly get some work experience(hopefully) with some photographers,I really like photography and would love to have a job in something i like

PCPhoto

OP I did the same as you ...... I studied analytical chemistry for 3yrs, worked in pharmaceutical plants for a couple of years, but I was doing photography on the side - most of the time concerts/sports.

so far its working ..... dont expect to make loads of money - if you choose reportage work - but its a lot more fun and relaxed.

theres loads of options - I couldn't show you how to become anything other than a newspaper photographer, theres loads of money in PR if you are organised, friendly and have a nice manner (and good photo skills).

Personally I agree with what the others have said - if you want to do photography go for it, my parents still dont think I'll make a career from it - and I've been at it fulltime nearly 10years....and part-time a bit more.

Mycroft H

Ricky91t wrote: »

Currently in the same boat at this,Will be going to DIT in Sept 2010 to do the 4 years BA hons degree,Taking a year out to improve my portfolio and possibly get some work experience(hopefully) with some photographers,I really like photography and would love to have a job in something i like

See you there so, i missed the deadline for the submitting of the portfolio, so i'll be doing the b.a in journalism instead (though 445 points still looks a bit daunting) :-)

Fajitas!

I went down a far riskier route than a BA in Photography, and went for a BFA, and it was probably one of the best and most enjoyable things I've done - there's work out there, without a doubt. Market yourself right, do what suits you best, and you're on track for money making out of photography, whether it's print sales, weddings, portraits, photojournalism or whatever.

Out of the 160 people I went through my year of college with, I was the only one with an interest in photography as a business aswell as using it in my course, and I was also the only one constantly earning my keep from it, which is certainally something to think about.

solus

Ive been working full time as a photographer for the last 6 years. To be honest, its tough, financially!

Absolutely follow your dreams
But Im not sure i would recommend, doing a degree course in Photography, you should try be assistant to a photographer for few years, learn way more this way.

There is work.. but its all about who you know...

Nforce

This is something that I'd love to get involved in too. I was made redundant at the beginning of the month, so I need to retrain and fancy a completely new career.

ThOnda

Realising that I won't be able to make living from photography makes everything much easier But still, I would like to be involved in photography business on professional level. The question is how if ever...

Ricky91t

This thread is really putting me off doing something in photography..

AnCatDubh

Ricky91t wrote: »

This thread is really putting me off doing something in photography..

why so?

I think there is a world of a difference between something that you do and enjoy and are good at to actually earning your keep from it. It isn't a structured industry that generally (although with exceptions) you will go into a 9 - 5 job with someone else wondering about how you are going to eat this week. There's much more of a challenge to it than that. Yes, it is going to be hard and you are fending for yourself. The alternate can be that you sit in an office from 9 - 5, get an ok wage (or better), but spend 40 hours of the week wishing that you were out taking photographs. That I think is where the balance lies.

sort out what your own heart desires, and then realise that it is ultimately up to you as to how you progress.

PCPhoto

Ricky.... an example-

This week I was taking pics in the courts in Dublin, I had 4 stories and 8 pics which were sent out to all the papers (most of the pics didnt get used).. tues I had one story (about 8pics) which all the papers used (except the Times), I had nothing wed, thurs and friday ..... if I didnt have the BIG one on tues I would have made very little money this week.

lucky for me I have loads of sport games to do at the weekend (this weekend 9games)

PCPhoto

Ricky - have you considered shadowing a photographer to see what its like...get a taste for it.

one of the advantages of the job is that you can organise passes for yourself to most major events in the country.

Ricky91t

AnCatDubh wrote: »

why so?

I think there is a world of a difference between something that you do and enjoy and are good at to actually earning your keep from it. It isn't a structured industry that generally (although with exceptions) you will go into a 9 - 5 job with someone else wondering about how you are going to eat this week. There's much more of a challenge to it than that. Yes, it is going to be hard and you are fending for yourself. The alternate can be that you sit in an office from 9 - 5, get an ok wage (or better), but spend 40 hours of the week wishing that you were out taking photographs. That I think is where the balance lies.

sort out what your own heart desires, and then realise that it is ultimately up to you as to how you progress.

The fact most people come on here saying it's tough to make ends meet etc,I'd be happy if i worked 10 years in a nice paying job(Some cash in my account as a back up) and the dropped out and did photography,But it seems all the photographers are struggling with the small pay,Which for some who will need to buy a car,Insurance(not cheap at my age),Possibly renting somewhere depending on where i go it seems near impossible to make a living from it

I would rather do photography but it just looks like (from the replies here) that Irish photographers don't don't enough

PCPhoto wrote: »

Ricky.... an example-

This week I was taking pics in the courts in Dublin, I had 4 stories and 8 pics which were sent out to all the papers (most of the pics didnt get used).. tues I had one story (about 8pics) which all the papers used (except the Times), I had nothing wed, thurs and friday ..... if I didnt have the BIG one on tues I would have made very little money this week.

lucky for me I have loads of sport games to do at the weekend (this weekend 9games)

Cheers for that

PCPhoto wrote: »

Ricky - have you considered shadowing a photographer to see what its like...get a taste for it.

one of the advantages of the job is that you can organise passes for yourself to most major events in the country.

Yeah I've spent a week shadowing a photographer well 4 days and really liked it,It was that or IT and i just prefer the more active lifestyle of a photographer compared to someone stuck in an office(obviously i enjoyed the photography side etc etc,But that was the reason i decided to try photography instead of IT)

nilhg

Ricky91t wrote: »

The fact most people come on here saying it's tough to make ends meet etc,I'd be happy if i worked 10 years in a nice paying job(Some cash in my account as a back up) and the dropped out and did photography,But it seems all the photographers are struggling with the small pay,Which for some who will need to buy a car,Insurance(not cheap at my age),Possibly renting somewhere depending on where i go it seems near impossible to make a living from it

I would rather do photography but it just looks like (from the replies here) that Irish photographers don't don't enough

I think there are lots of folks about ( and plenty more who will be coming out of college over the next few years) who would like 10 years in a nice paying job.........

When you are young, before you gather up all the responsibilities that most of us older folk have, is the best time to try things out, if you give it a go and it doesn't work out at least you won't be wondering.

One thing that should be said is that often peoples financial success has more to do with their ability to sell themselves and their product rather than the absolute quality of their work.

Ricky91t wrote: »

Yeah I've spent a week shadowing a photographer well 4 days and really liked it,It was that or IT and i just prefer the more active lifestyle of a photographer compared to someone stuck in an office(obviously i enjoyed the photography side etc etc,But that was the reason i decided to try photography instead of IT)

There is no law to say you can't do both, even if you do the IT course, you'd have plenty of opportunity to do some part time photography work and build up a portfolio and your reputation even if you don't make a fortune.

thebaz

Making money in any pursuit is risky, you are more likely to make money in IT, but then many of the jobs are moving to Asia and Eastern Europe, and whats in now, will be dated in 2 years . I know Solicitors who did it purely to make money, and now can't make any money at it . . so life is full of luck and risk - somewhere along the line we have to enjoy it.
I've never made any money at Photography, but Al and others here have, I just wonder if I photographed weddings or something commercially would I lose my apetite for photography.

Borderfox

Start off small and work your way up, I work from home and have a portable studio so my overheads are really low which works well when I quote. It can be really hard work but very rewarding both financially and mentally when you get everything right.

Maybe to answer Barry's dilemma, I worked monday to friday straight shooting real estate/portraits and organising Wedding photos for a client and still took the camera out with me today to St Annes and shot a bundle of pictures.

Mycroft H

Ricky91t wrote: »

The fact most people come on here saying it's tough to make ends meet etc,I'd be happy if i worked 10 years in a nice paying job(Some cash in my account as a back up) and the dropped out and did photography,But it seems all the photographers are struggling with the small pay,Which for some who will need to buy a car,Insurance(not cheap at my age),Possibly renting somewhere depending on where i go it seems near impossible to make a living from it

I would rather do photography but it just looks like (from the replies here) that Irish photographers don't don't enough


Cheers for that



Yeah I've spent a week shadowing a photographer well 4 days and really liked it,It was that or IT and i just prefer the more active lifestyle of a photographer compared to someone stuck in an office(obviously i enjoyed the photography side etc etc,But that was the reason i decided to try photography instead of IT)

Hmmm, if it was me i'd get myself a i.t or an arts degree rather then a pure photography one. I was originally going to do that degree, missed the date for the application and now i think i wouldnt have done it anyway.


The way things are at the moment with the economy, the more employable you are, the better.


The reason is, i felt it would limit me totally to the area of photography, and if things went pear shaped, at least i'd be highly employable with a i.t or a science degree.

I'll probably do a two year ordinary degree in it when i'm finished college and when i've a little money

Borderfox

Personally I dont think the qualifications mean a whole lot, sure there great to have if you have done them but I would go with practical experience everytime.

Mycroft H

^ i've been told that by a pro before. A excellent portfolio is all you need he said

Borderfox

Very true

melekalikimaka

in saying that a photography course will really help giving you a kicj ass folio... darkroom and studio access on tap is a big plus

Thoie

Just throwing it out as a thought, but have you considered studying something "business-y" - accounting, marketing, etc. ?

Where I'm coming from is that you will generally find camera clubs in college that will get you access to the equipment and bits you want, so you can continue your photography training while you're there, but you'll have some "backup" qualifications that will still be useful when setting up your own photography business.

I'm not a professional photographer, so I may be wrong, but in the early days of any business the paperwork can get people down - if you can save a few bob by doing the admin bits properly yourself it might be worth it. Then, when your business grows to a point where you might want to hire someone to take care of that side of things, at least you'll have an idea what they should be doing.

AnCatDubh

be it photography, or IT, or arguing the p*** with someone, it makes life so much more enjoyable when you do something that you love.

Morrisseeee

I find this thread 'interesting', ie. I bought a DSLR last year with the intention of 'fun photography', and it has been fun. But.........I'm now wondering if I'd like to take it up more seriously, but I don't know what to do: portrait, sports, photo-journalism, weddings, landscapes, etc etc.

Which leads me onto a question 'for those in the know', ie. about portrait photograghy. My wife won a €180 voucher for a photography session. The deal is we get a 'family hour' with a photographer, then a 7*5 framed photograph. My initial reaction was "IS THAT ALL...(for €180):eek:". Their other prices (blew me away!!) are........very dear aswell, well I thought so anyway.
So........it got me thinking, this MUST be a GOOD paying job, especially if you are busy (in the current economic climate)........well, is it, is portrait photography a good viable option, whether you try and set up on your own, or get a job as a photographer in one of these photography studios ?

Fajitas!

Well, the thing about that is, the photographer is paying for his camera, lenses, lights, studio, front desk, window display and most likely a receptionist, so after an hour, it wouldn't boil down to too much.

It's as easy (and nessicary) to put the money you earn from photography back in to photography so you can progress both with modern equipment and marketing.

thebaz

Having said what I said, I hope to take time out of my life this year to study Documentary Photography in Wales - hopefully it will open doors for me, where I can make a living out of what I like doing it

Anouilh

thebaz wrote: »

Having said what I said, I hope to take time out of my life this year to study Documentary Photography in Wales - hopefully it will open doors for me, where I can make a living out of what I like doing it

Here's wishing you every success with this new venture.

I think that we are all set to make even amateur careers out of our creativity. "Why can't you make money out of what you do?", I've been asked. The answer seems to be in the fact that photography and post processing, not to mention uploading to friendly groups like this one takes up most of my time, so the effort to get "out there" and become commercial would be a form of exquisite misery...

I wrote this the other day and thought to share it:

http://moderntwist2.blogspot.com/2009/05/way-to-handle-woman.html#links

While it mostly references the lot of the freelance writer, I expect that photographers have long rambling tales to tell about taking photos that are neither compatible with their temperament not particularly memorable.

Ever so often I look at Atget's beautiful representations of ordinary life in Paris. It's enough.

Borderfox

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I find this thread 'interesting', ie. I bought a DSLR last year with the intention of 'fun photography', and it has been fun. But.........I'm now wondering if I'd like to take it up more seriously, but I don't know what to do: portrait, sports, photo-journalism, weddings, landscapes, etc etc.

Which leads me onto a question 'for those in the know', ie. about portrait photograghy. My wife won a €180 voucher for a photography session. The deal is we get a 'family hour' with a photographer, then a 7*5 framed photograph. My initial reaction was "IS THAT ALL...(for €180):eek:". Their other prices (blew me away!!) are........very dear aswell, well I thought so anyway.
So........it got me thinking, this MUST be a GOOD paying job, especially if you are busy (in the current economic climate)........well, is it, is portrait photography a good viable option, whether you try and set up on your own, or get a job as a photographer in one of these photography studios ?

Just to give you an idea, shop units under where I live are going for 1000 euro per week without any fittings so you imagine how much turnover you will need to put through before you are making money. I have heard plenty of horror stories about high street studios and most seem to have in the business plan that people will only go once so lets stick it to them that time.

I work on the idea that personal refferals are worth a lot and charge accordingly, I work from home and all my studio gear is portable so no overheads in terms of premises.

Fionn

as a career - its probably become devalued in some cases! for instance an american reporter friend of mine who was dispatched to Iraq just after the "mission acomplished" with a staff photographer, the second time he was sent, he was given a Powershot G series and told to get photographs to go with the articles. He has since along with others been let go from the paper he was with. Thats just one part of the industry, i think anyone considering a career in it would have to weigh up all the changes that have taken place over the last few years.
As for going freelance - well in Ireland it's probably not all that steady, theres always work out there but if theres too many looking for it, the prices go down and it certainly is hard to make ends meet, with equipment costs etc. Location is another factor - seems to be that if your not based in Dublin or some other city the pickings are pretty small, and as has been mentioned its not all artistic and interesting - like theres lots and lots of boring firing squad 'presenting of the cheque' type photos that can certainly dampen the enthusiasm, wedding photography isn't everyone's cup of tea either because photography is only a percentage of it!!! but despite that, if you love something and can make a living out of it - well your made!!
consider doing it part time.
apologies for the long post