Should coalition Governments be banned?

thethedev

I personally believe that a coalition government is a threat to democracy.
Any party can get in once they buy off another with enough votes, this is absurd and should be completly abolished in a modern democracy.
I mean FFS :mad:

Iwasfrozen

I agree whole heartly, Coalition Goverments are destroying this Country.
Alas, to destroy it we would need a referendum and referendums can only be called by the (Coalition) Government. :mad:

JonathanAnon

Political parties should be banned. Can you imagine how much more productive the Dáil would be if they didnt spend all of their time bickering over stupid inter-party issues. Everybody should run as independant's with none of the usual nepotism.

Grudaire

... because 144 bickering Jakie Healy Rae's are exactly what Ireland needs to drag herself out of a recession and back into the 21st century!?

MoominPapa

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Can you imagine how much more productive the Dáil would be if they didnt spend all of their time bickering over stupid inter-party issues.

No I can't, in fact I think the Dail would be much more ineffective if all members were independent. How could it be otherwise?

Banning politicians is what we should do. I mean without politicians we wouldn't be in this mess!!!!!

Grudaire

Deleted User wrote: »

Banning politicians is what we should do. I mean without politicians we wouldn't be in this mess!!!!!

Let's go a step further - Ban people - That's 100% guaranteed to stop this ever happening again:p

Souljacker

thethedev wrote: »

I personally believe that a coalition government is a threat to democracy.
Any party can get in once they buy off another with enough votes, this is absurd and should be completely abolished in a modern democracy.
I mean FFS :mad:

No in other countries which don't have preference voting systems their governments are much less representative.
Take our neighbours, Labour won 30 something percent of the vote in 2005 yet thanks to the first past the vote it's enough to win a majority of seats in the house of commons.

Our system is representative and allows smaller parties in our country a voice in the Dail. And yes this almost certainly always results in coalition government but personally I think this is a great thing, it's representative what more could you want??

I don't see how coalition governments are attributable to the failure of the economy. Surely the fault lies with the parties in the coalition, not the system? If we were in the UK we'd have had a majority FF government instead, personally that's not something I'd like to see.

All politicians have to put themselves in front of the electorate. The result is parties will want to avoid the behaviour you outlined because people aren’t stupid and they’ll punish parties who they feel have screwed them over.

nesf

To get rid of coalitions we'd have to bring in a First Past the Post system like they have in the UK. This would essentially mean that we'd have FG and FF as main two parties and a much smaller Labour, if it could survive at all.

I'm not that's what you people want.

Denerick

People need to learn we don't live in a democracy - we live in a democratic Republic. Democratic Constitutional Republics operate under a system of limitied power - every possible stakeholder in the civic structure has its power limitied; the power of the people is limitied by constitutions, the rule of law, the power of governments is limitied by the peoples mandate, transparant and accountable institutions. It creates a great compromise where everyone's liberties are restrained for the common good.

Its not a bad system, the best man's every come up with frankly. 'Democracy', which people seem to revere without thinking about it clearly, is just another form of tyranny.

nesf

Denerick wrote: »

Its not a bad system, the best man's every come up with frankly. 'Democracy', which people seem to revere without thinking about it clearly, is just another form of tyranny.

Indeed. Republics are flawed, flawed things but compared to the tyranny of a pure democratic system which has no limits placed on the majority it's manna from heaven.

Fluffybums

Once heard the democratic system described as an "elected totalitarian government". Doesn't sound great when put like that, but better than the alternative.

Don't knock the first past the post system, whilst by no means perfect it can bring up new parties to govern, look back at the 20th century, initially the two main parties were liberal and tory, now its tory and labour. I suspect that the UK may be up for change again.

The biggest problem here, as far as I can see, is nepotism (ffs who came up with the idea that if a sitting TD dies a relative can take over their seat - how in God's name is that democraticconfused:), too inward looking and an over inflated view of their own worth. Also an electorate who's attitude seems to be well the other lot are worse:(. If FF f**k up but keep being re-elected they certainly are not going to change their ways. As for PR bringing up smaller parties, please remind me how which are the effective choices wrt to the primary governing parties?

Victor

thethedev wrote: »

this is absurd

This is the only part of your post that I understand.

thethedev wrote: »

I personally believe that a coalition government is a threat to democracy.

How is it a threat? Surely the coalition still needs to have at least 50% (stictly speaking a little under 50% if some abstain) of the chamber.

Any party can get in once they buy off another with enough votes,

Can you give examples of this?

ShooterSF

I don't really see an alternative though I do understand the problem. As it is a small percentage of this country support the greens yet they have more power than FG or labour who are more popular. Then again that could just be my increasing dislike for the greens manifesting itself.

thethedev

ShooterSF wrote: »

I don't really see an alternative though I do understand the problem. As it is a small percentage of this country support the greens yet they have more power than FG or labour who are more popular. Then again that could just be my increasing dislike for the greens manifesting itself.

Calling it a threat to democcy is a bit strong, but I still believe there is a problem.
Maybe if we hasd politicians with ideals and not greedy eyes we would be OK

is_that_so

ShooterSF wrote: »

I don't really see an alternative though I do understand the problem. As it is a small percentage of this country support the greens yet they have more power than FG or labour who are more popular. Then again that could just be my increasing dislike for the greens manifesting itself.

It's more down to our STV system which is extremely fair. What we end up with is often,IMO, as a result of people not understanding how their lower preferences can influence the outcome or they just don't look too closely at what is on offer.

Denerick

thethedev wrote: »

Maybe if we hasd politicians with ideals and not greedy eyes we would be OK

This attitude really irritates me. People need to accept that when people get in politics by and large they got in because they are lying, cheating, subhuman scumbags. Politics is the dirtiest of games to get into.

Relying on 'integrity' and other such nonsense does nothing for our civic culture. Instead we need stronger institutions which can tackle corruption head on, quickly, fairly and effectively. The fact that Bertie Ahern got away with corruption scot free is a national disgrace to our integrity as a people and a political system.

A good republic needs a strong and active citizenry - without it we are at the mercy of those scumbags who do nothing but crave power for its own sake.

This is probably one of the reasons why I want Libertas to do well - even though they are objectionable to the point of farce. They'll mix things up and remind governing parties that the voters are not to be fooled any longer. So long as we, as a civic culture lack any real political sophistication then we don't have any grounds to complain about politicians when they invariably f**k up.