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10 Reasons to Get Fianna Fail Out of Power
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It is generally considered by balanced commentators that Ahern was clean but hounded out of office by media.
Well he wasn't hounded far enough. He's still out there somewhere, still trying to crap all over everyone.
I'm against mob rule, but I'd make an exception in his case, if he could be publicly hounded into the stocks.0 -
10 reasons??
http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/69381-fianna-fail-2007-2009-a.html
^^ alot more than 10 reasons listed there :eek:0 -
It is generally considered by balanced commentators that Ahern was clean but hounded out of office by media.
Any links to back up that statement, by any chance ?
In my view, here's what happened :
1. Bertie Ahern asked questions about his finances.
2. He gives an answer that sounded iffy but might have been above board
3. The answer from 2 above is proven to be false
4. Bertie gives a different answer
5. The answer from 4 above is proven to be false
6. Bertie gives a different answer
7. The answer from 6 above is proven to be false
See a pattern ?
And in amongst all this we have to bear in mind that he was Minister for Finance at the time and therefore should have been better at accounting than you or I ?
PLUS he said (and I quote) "I gave them [high-profile, influential] jobs because they were MY FRIENDS".
i.e. NEPOTISM
So whatever about the cash controversies, he WAS dodgy (because nepotism is corruption and stroke-pulling and not good for the country)
So your statement that it was "generally considered by balanced commentators that Ahern was clean but hounded out of office by media" is 100% crap.
On that self-admitted statement ALONE he deserved to be pushed out of office. And that's without any cash anomalies being explained to the satisfaction of the "balanced" public.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »10 reasons??
http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/69381-fianna-fail-2007-2009-a.html
^^ alot more than 10 reasons listed there :eek:
Jesus Christ, I've just opened that link!
HOW can we sell this truth to the public at large, too many of whom will go into the polling booths blind, voting on a whim, or out of some misguided loyalty to the last canvasser to give them a cheesy smile?
HOW do you get it THROUGH to people???
This FF party need to be ANNIHILATED. They have poisoned this country and it's people long enough. They are a cancer. Cut them out. Completely.0 -
As Daithinski pointed out a party political broadcast by a soldier of desentry.
And a long winded one at that, dressed up as supposedly objective thoughts from a green voter :rolleyes:
"(Cowen and Lenihan are both competent and honest)" :rolleyes:
I think over 80 % of the population disagree with that statement, at least the competent portion of it anyway.
The jury is out on the honest portion seening how certain banks have been rescued at great cost to the taxpayer.
I almost gave up reading this tripe after that gem, and finally did after the next party political rant.
Would the balanced commentators include Eoin Harris by any chance :rolleyes:
Nice the way you admit that Huaghey and Lawlor were on the take seen as it is probably indisputable at this point.
PS you forgot to mention the major high ranking jailbird minister RAY BURKE, Councillor Stroke Fahy, Padraig and Bevelry Flynn, Denis Foley, Killarney Mayor Patrick O'Donoghue and God knows how many more that don't reach the news.
The best thing about this post is that you are criticising me as being a FF canvasser in places where you are quoting the original poster, who is obviously a member of the FG party. This is my fault as I could not have been a***d to insert quotes.
I am not a FF canvasser. They need to be benched but when you see such an obvious misleading party political broadcast on behalf of FG without any balanced comment you just have to step in.
Nearly every charge against FF above can be levelled at FG.
I am looking for a Labour led rainbow in the next election as I despise FG but accept that they will have to be there. Please god their smug middle class yuppies such as Hayes and Varadakar will not get in. I've more respect for Bruton and Shatter.0 -
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is_that_so wrote: »So you have no objection to their volte face or the Trevor Sargeant stroke or their impotence in Government or the fact that every "Green" initiative involves Eamon Ryan showing up claiming credit or that John Gormley thinks we're angry and chastises us or even that strange Mary White woman?
Yes this is perennial favourite;the "they're all at it" scattergun approach to measuring relative wrongdoing. Aside from Lawlor and Haughey some real evidence would be good.
Ever read about Gareth Fitzgerald's dealings with AIB?? Ever heard of Michael Lowry?? No didn't think so!! How about FG party paying their employees with cash in hand to assist tax dodging?? No?? Of course notis_that_so wrote: »I suggest some serious denial here if you can't see that B Ahern was doing things he should not have been in his position. I'd also hazard a guess that you would be dubious about Labour anyway despite the fact that your hero saw them as the preferred coalition partners.
The word is slight meaning insult or affront, although the word sleight meaning trick is appropriate to FF and McCreevy.
You see the Govt had it in its power to rein back on the other part of the equation , the humble greedy citizen but chose not to. In fact they encouraged us. Yet again I see nothing concrete in your defence here and it sounds an awful lot like the script FF are reading us at present.
Yes that was a typo. Some of us don't have time to proof read our posts as we are not members of parties and not interested in spending time meticulously putting together propaganda posts such as the original contributor.
Ah I see. Do away with people's disposable income therefore they will not spend, not fuel inflation and we will all be happy. So in reining us in this would of course lead to a drop in consumer confidence and loss of jobs which in turn leads to a higher SW bill, higher taxes etc. etc. In other words we would be exactly where we are now. Have we not minds of our own? Who chose to go out and borrow 400K for a house? I didn't see the Finance Minister putting a gun to anyone's head. EVERYBODY got greedy and this was not down to any govt. It was down to individuals and their failure to control their greed.is_that_so wrote: »Yes your name could be McCreevy. "If I have it I'll spend it". Franco's solution to Spanish unemployment was to create more civil servants. That said it is the injudicious spending that has got us into this mess and large on that list is benchmarking 1 & 2 for which Mr Consensus holds a lot of the blame.
The social partnership has been widely regarded as a success story as it encouraged overseas investment into a country where labour stability reigned and unions were onside. Now the unions, backers of Labour, have lost the run of themselves and hence the collapse of social partnership. This is pure greed.is_that_so wrote: »You really do have a selective memory and this ties into your Stickie comments above. In fact I will use the word rambling. How are Labour behind strikes and the collapse of companies? What have accountants got to do with FG? Who's paralysing anything?
How are Labour behind strikes? Are you aware of the relationship between Labour and the unions? I don't have time to explain this to you. Ever wondered why Labour can criticise other parties on funding? For example, as a SIPTU member a % of your Union subs automatically goes to funding the Labour party like it or not. Neither Labour nor the Union will tell you this but never the less you are contributing to the LP slush fund. The unions are out of control fuelling wages and leading to job losses to cheaper markets. Historically FG were always the party of the middle classes. Unions are paralysing reform in the PS. This is a well known fact. Just look at efforts on health reform, consultants unions block, nurses unions block. no changes of practices without compensation.is_that_so wrote: »Now it's George Lee and economists' fault. Not entirely sure what you are trying to say in this.
His selection as a candidate by FG smacks of opportunism and desperation. Surely their policies are watertight and their candidates will be elected on that basis and not on the basis that this candidate splurged licence payer's money on promoting his own agenda and that of his new found buddies in FG??
You criticise much of what I said, and a lot of what I didn't - no editing of quotes from me in this case - but yet just like the opposition benches you mention no alternatives. Where are the policies?? Who is going to save us, Enda Kenny??? God help us!!
For the record, my original post was to address the obvious FG party political broadcast from the original poster. I obviously tipped the balance in the other direction though. I just hate hypocrites!
Despite my FG/Labour bashing above (because all of the main parties are inept) my preference would be for a rainbow after the next election with Labour the dominant party but with a decent green agenda. I think there is sufficient time before the next election for FF to take back the floaters from FG and this will strengthen Labour's coalition position.0 -
21...Thornton Hall superprison
22. "digouts" "I won it on the horses"
23."co-location"
24.Quangos
25.Botched Lisbon referendum "I didn't read it".0 -
Brian Cowen is on RTE radio right now talking about tough decisions that his party & goverment are making to cure this recession. He stresses this is the reason why the party is so unpopular right now... UNTRUE
I agree.
You lost me on that one.I am actually a big fan of Cowen as the government leader and I believe Lenihan is an extremely polished individual (look at his recent successes in europe).But this party is fundementally flawed and its core network of corrupt and incompetent individuals still exist. At the first opportunity the party needs to be removed from power and kept away from power until the rotten core dies away. This could take a period of 10 - 20 years.
The rotten core dies in irish politics never dies, it is how it works. I say all TD should be fired and never allowed to hold office again. New TD should be limited to 2 terms.1. Fianna Fail is inherently a corrupt party and although the two most prominent members (Cowen and Lenihan are both competent and honest) the party relies on a network of cronyism, corruption and shady dealings through its network of nationwide members. Dont forget this is the party of Haughey, Ahern and Lawlor, three men that are no more than suited gangsters ).
Cowen and Lenihan are both competent and honest? NO.
The rest is right.
You are correct except there was lot of regulation in Ireland. The banks did what the government wanted and lent silly amounts of money for houses that were ot worth it. The government even wanted them to lend money when the banks ran out of money to lend.2. Fianna Fail led the country to its most accute economic downturn in the history of the state, because they had a cosy relationship with property developers and bankers and preside over a country with almost zero regulation. The over reliance on property meant our recession was much more accute than what other countries are experiencing right now.
The action they are taking will make the economy worse not better. They need to take action alot more that 2 years ago.3. They are taking action to resolve the economic crisis two years too late and indeed should have had more prudent policies to preserve growth over the long term and reduce spending DURING the boom times.4. During ten years of incredible economic growth we are still left with a 3rd world health system and transport infrastructure and first world prices. Where did the money all GO?.
There was not 10 years of incredible growth. There was 10 years of borrowing money for over priced houses many that one one ever lived in. The money went the same place all money goes when a pyrmid scheme ends.5. Fianna Fail as a party serves the needs of the rich including the developers, horse breeders, auctioneers and bankers. They do not serve the interests of the common man who pays his taxes and works an honest day. It is now that this backbone of the Irish economy finally deserve to have their interests met by a political party.
What you say about Fianna Fail is partly true. mostly Fianna Fail serves only it on needs. if the common man is waiting for a political party in Ireland to serve his interest then he is wasting his time.6. Compared to the Green Party and Fiana Gael, Fianna Fail have not devised as of yet a long term strategy to deliver jobs and growth to this country and are 100% focused on fire fighting an accute property based recession (and throwing money into a fire regards bank capitilisation and the healthcare system), they lack long term vision..
Fiana Gael, Fianna Fail have vision at all. As for the green party they are opposed to growth in the economy and what it to shrink.7. Ireland needs a fundemental change in attitudes and needs to adopt a more social, conservative, consciencence and prudent model of governance similar to France & Germany. This needs to come from the top down through governmental policy.
Copying the french and Germany is the last thing we need.8. Ireland needs now to invest in infrastructure, health care and green industry to create and sustain growth and in the process create jobs and finally create a lasting legacy in regards health & transport. Instead they are battening down the hatches with higher taxes and increased VAT, reducing spending & destroying consumer confidence.
NO. Ireland need to stop spending money it does not have and pay off it debts. Consumer spending is not what is needed in a country that has no money.9. There is a strong danger Irish people over time will forget how this party have brought us to the brink of bankruptcy and now constantly repeating their message of 'tough decisions'. The reality is these decisions should have been made 5 - 10 years ago.
I agree decisions should have been made 10 years ago or more. people always have a short memory when it come to politics and the economy.10. Fianna Fail to this day has never apolgised or shown any remorse for the situation we find ourselves in. Party members had their pockets lined through cosy jobs (chairing commissions, the seanad, junior ministers etc) and party affiliates also as they got access to easy cash from banks, shady land re-zoning and tax breaks. Where as the common man like you and me are facing reduced job prospects, loss of earning and tax increases..
Fianna Fail are not called the Cute ***** party for nothing.Where to go next? Fiana Gael have devised impressive and focussed plans around health care and transport. This would create jobs and finally give us the transport and health care infrastructure we deserve. I also believe as Fiana Gael have spectated these unparalled time of greed and growth they have learnt through Fianna Fail mistakes how not to govern and they are also closer to the electorate and understand their needs better. For example Fiana Gael introduced the donations policy while seeing the general unrest in the county at Fianna Fails dubious fund raising activities.
Aaah Yes. Tweedle Dumb has learned from Tweedle Dee's mistakes. I do not think so.
Fiana Gael policy are more cazy that finnia fail's.
Only someone as Mashugina as the leader of Fiana Gael could find a way of coming up with policies dumber that Fianna Fail .The Green Party if remaining in power could put this country at the forefront of the green industry which could quite possibly become a long term and sustainble growth industry.
In the Words of the late "General Anthony Clement McAuliffe" when asked to surrender to General Heinrich Freiherr von Lüttwitz at Bastogne. "NUTS"It looks like we wont have a general election any time soon, but I hope for everyones sake we can remember why Fianna Fail need to be removed from power.
some good reasons.
What do we replace them with?
Throwing out Tweedle Dee is a good idea , but replacing him with Tweedle Dumb is not.0 -
What do we replace them with?
Throwing out Tweedle Dee is a good idea , but replacing him with Tweedle Dumb is not.
So we don't do anything? It's this type of ****e that has us stuck with Fianna Fail for so long. I'd happy vote for an inanimate object at this point but Fine Gael will do nicely instead.
And Joxer71 it truly amazes me that people like you are not embarrassed posting directly on behalf of Fianna Fail after they've dragged the entire country into the ****ter.0 -
From todays independent
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-rallies-faithful-with-talk-of-return-to-rapid-growth-1747711.html
For all those who say the independent is biased etc, I am just going to quote Cowen, and none of the commentary that goes along with it
On the possibility that the country may climb out of recession soon:"We are making real progress. We have a way out that is working," he said. "We are positioned to return to growth, even rapid growth, as the world economy turns, as early as next year."
On the opposition's criticisms:"Their hindsight may be clear now, but they were not so sharp eyed when the crisis was only around the corner," Mr Cowen added.
First of all, what on earth is he basing his prediction that Ireland will return to growth next year, when various economic commentators are saying the opposite? A ploy for more votes in the upcoming elections I would think.
The second quote is laughable. He is the one who had his head in the sand while the country was collapsing around him.
There is just one more piece from the article I want to take. Cowen speaking about the opposition parties:Both parties, he claimed, are engaged in "dead-end politics" and using the "cynical politics of blame".
So he's saying "even though we got the country into this mess, nevermind that, blaming us won't solve anything. Just make sure you vote us in again"
Most normal people would resign out of shame had they caused this kind of balls-up in any other occupation. It seems politicians are just a different breed altogether. Or maybe that's just Fianna Fail politicians.0 -
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So we don't do anything? It's this type of ****e that has us stuck with Fianna Fail for so long. I'd happy vote for an inanimate object at this point but Fine Gael will do nicely instead.
And Joxer71 it truly amazes me that people like you are not embarrassed posting directly on behalf of Fianna Fail after they've dragged the entire country into the ****ter.
I did not say do nothing.
I said all TDs should be fired and never allowed to hold office again. New TD should be limited to 2 terms.
As you as an inanimate object would do better that what we have now.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »
OMG :eek:
I've just printed it off and will be handing it to all the FF losers that knock on my door.0 -
FF are a massive retarding force on this country. Economically, socially and politically. We are probably 20 years behind where we would be if they didn't exist. It's long past time that we got rid of them.0
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The best thing about this post is that you are criticising me as being a FF canvasser in places where you are quoting the original poster, who is obviously a member of the FG party. This is my fault as I could not have been a***d to insert quotes.
What are you on about ?
I just quoted your post AFAIK.I am not a FF canvasser. They need to be benched but when you see such an obvious misleading party political broadcast on behalf of FG without any balanced comment you just have to step in.
You might not be a canvasser but you are a damm fine apologist for the shower of useless wa**ers.Nearly every charge against FF above can be levelled at FG.
Right lets see if the charges stack up...
When did FG have a taoiseach that had a private off shore banker, take massive gifts from businessmen, not pay tax on said gifgts loans etc, take from the fund to help his long time "friend" and colleague get a new liver ?
When did FG have a taosieach that admitted he didn't have a bank account whilst acting as a minister of finance and that appeared to have wads of cash in different currencies stuck in his wall safe ?
When did FG have a minister that was found to have taken bribes, in fact had recieved it appears a house as a payoff ?
When did FG have an ex minister serving time in prison for his behaviour at tribunal due to his little corruption adventures ?
BTW AFAIK Lowry got work done on house as part payment for work done for customer, it was tax avoidance which is still bad and thus he was kicked out.
How long did it take for Burke to be kicked out.
When was a FG councilor found not alone guilty of stealing from county council, but also attempting to lay the blame on a member of council staff ?
Oh when did FG have a party member who refused to pay their legal costs to a state body, after they had failed in a legal action ?
When did FG have a party member who had worked for a bank and facilitated tax evasion ?
To go through some of the charges levelled at Lawlor we would be here all day.I am looking for a Labour led rainbow in the next election as I despise FG but accept that they will have to be there. Please god their smug middle class yuppies such as Hayes and Varadakar will not get in. I've more respect for Bruton and Shatter.
There are as much of your despised middle class yuppies in the Labour party.
Or have your forgotten about Ivana ?I am not allowed discuss …
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Ever read about Gareth Fitzgerald's dealings with AIB?? Ever heard of Michael Lowry?? No didn't think so!! How about FG party paying their employees with cash in hand to assist tax dodging?? No?? Of course not
Yes that was a typo. Some of us don't have time to proof read our posts as we are not members of parties and not interested in spending time meticulously putting together propaganda posts such as the original contributor.
Ah I see. Do away with people's disposable income therefore they will not spend, not fuel inflation and we will all be happy. So in reining us in this would of course lead to a drop in consumer confidence and loss of jobs which in turn leads to a higher SW bill, higher taxes etc. etc. In other words we would be exactly where we are now. Have we not minds of our own? Who chose to go out and borrow 400K for a house? I didn't see the Finance Minister putting a gun to anyone's head. EVERYBODY got greedy and this was not down to any govt. It was down to individuals and their failure to control their greed.
The social partnership has been widely regarded as a success story as it encouraged overseas investment into a country where labour stability reigned and unions were onside. Now the unions, backers of Labour, have lost the run of themselves and hence the collapse of social partnership. This is pure greed.
How are Labour behind strikes? Are you aware of the relationship between Labour and the unions? I don't have time to explain this to you. Ever wondered why Labour can criticise other parties on funding? For example, as a SIPTU member a % of your Union subs automatically goes to funding the Labour party like it or not. Neither Labour nor the Union will tell you this but never the less you are contributing to the LP slush fund. The unions are out of control fuelling wages and leading to job losses to cheaper markets. Historically FG were always the party of the middle classes. Unions are paralysing reform in the PS. This is a well known fact. Just look at efforts on health reform, consultants unions block, nurses unions block. no changes of practices without compensation.
His selection as a candidate by FG smacks of opportunism and desperation. Surely their policies are watertight and their candidates will be elected on that basis and not on the basis that this candidate splurged licence payer's money on promoting his own agenda and that of his new found buddies in FG??
You criticise much of what I said, and a lot of what I didn't - no editing of quotes from me in this case - but yet just like the opposition benches you mention no alternatives. Where are the policies?? Who is going to save us, Enda Kenny??? God help us!!
For the record, my original post was to address the obvious FG party political broadcast from the original poster. I obviously tipped the balance in the other direction though. I just hate hypocrites!
Despite my FG/Labour bashing above (because all of the main parties are inept) my preference would be for a rainbow after the next election with Labour the dominant party but with a decent green agenda. I think there is sufficient time before the next election for FF to take back the floaters from FG and this will strengthen Labour's coalition position.
You appear to have issues with unions, political parties, RTE, Labour and any number of other things, along with some bewildering leaps of logic. Much of it strikes me as chat radio and Whineline soundbytes. The only point I take out of this is that FG have no policies. While you criticise me you offer little constructive beyond some Dev-like "comely maidens" vision of a green-tinged Labour future, yet without any of the policies you so badly crave. If you want policies come up with some yourself. Hurling from the ditch is eventually found out for its pointlessness.0 -
is_that_so wrote: »You appear to have issues with unions, political parties, RTE, Labour and any number of other things, along with some bewildering leaps of logic. Much of it strikes me as chat radio and Whineline soundbytes. The only point I take out of this is that FG have no policies. While you criticise me you offer little constructive beyond some Dev-like "comely maidens" vision of a green-tinged Labour future, yet without any of the policies you so badly crave. If you want policies come up with some yourself. Hurling from the ditch is eventually found out for its pointlessness.
Jesus wept. All you have done is disect my posts without offering any constructive opinion yourself. Not once have you nailed your colours to the mast and if you want to talk about hurling from the ditch just look in the mirror. "If you want policies come up with them yourself" A true Irish comment. I'm not paid a TD's salary neither do I receive a TD's allowances and nor will I receive a guaranteed TD's pension when I retire. FG and Labour frontbenchers are paid by me and you to come up with constructive criticism of govt policy in the best of times and strong alternative policy in the worst of times. They have done neither. I hope FF go down but when I look across the house I fear for the alternative.0 -
What are you on about ?
I just quoted your post AFAIK.
You might not be a canvasser but you are a damm fine apologist for the shower of useless wa**ers.
Right lets see if the charges stack up...
When did FG have a taoiseach that had a private off shore banker, take massive gifts from businessmen, not pay tax on said gifgts loans etc, take from the fund to help his long time "friend" and colleague get a new liver ?
When did FG have a taosieach that admitted he didn't have a bank account whilst acting as a minister of finance and that appeared to have wads of cash in different currencies stuck in his wall safe ?
When did FG have a minister that was found to have taken bribes, in fact had recieved it appears a house as a payoff ?
When did FG have an ex minister serving time in prison for his behaviour at tribunal due to his little corruption adventures ?
BTW AFAIK Lowry got work done on house as part payment for work done for customer, it was tax avoidance which is still bad and thus he was kicked out.
How long did it take for Burke to be kicked out.
When was a FG councilor found not alone guilty of stealing from county council, but also attempting to lay the blame on a member of council staff ?
Oh when did FG have a party member who refused to pay their legal costs to a state body, after they had failed in a legal action ?
When did FG have a party member who had worked for a bank and facilitated tax evasion ?
To go through some of the charges levelled at Lawlor we would be here all day.
There are as much of your despised middle class yuppies in the Labour party.
Or have your forgotten about Ivana ?
If you bothered to read my post then you may have seen that I was trying to add some balance to what was obviously a party political broadcast on behalf of the FG party, a party that I have no time for I admit.
I comepletely agree with some of the points you make above but I presume, like I said in my original post, that you would level these accusations at FG also. If you don't then you are a FG apologist or worse still a FG member.
In 1999 the former Taoiseach Garret Fitzgerald admitted that he had £200,000 (in 1993 what would that be worth now? - many times that owed by Ahern I suspect) written off by AIB. Who wrote off this debt? Another FG man Peter Sutherland, chairman of AIB at that time.
Michael Lowry had an extension built onto his house and paid for by Ben Dunne. He also awarded a mobile phone licence to ESAT and Denis O'Brien having apparently received some serious backhanders from the now tax exile. He is also a very close associate of FG Euro election candidate Sean Kelly. Hhhmmm!!
Hugh Coveney (FG) resigned from govt after it was disclosed that he had an unhealthy business relationship with Bord Gais, drilling for family business from them at the time.
Between 1989 and 1998 (9 years in total) FG paid 18 members of staff cash in hand with no deductions for PRSI or PAYE. Not only where FG assisting employees to evade tax, these employees were also members of the party. In this respect FG party members were knowingly dodging tax.
FG councillors are not immune to these lapses in integrity either. It is a known fact that Frank Dunlop was bribing both FG and FF councillors. For example, the late FG councillor, Tom Hand, was bribed by Dunlop to the tune of £3000. Mary Elliott (FG councillor) was "unable to remember" dinner dates with Owen O'Callaghan and Frank Dunlop prior to important council votes. Looks as though Bertie isn't the only one prone to memory loss then. What do you think?? Oh yeah and three other FG members were present at these dinner dates also...Olivia Mitchell, Anne Devitt and Fine Gael Senator Therese Ridge. In Rolys of course....where else??
And of course just like FF there are many more controversies like the Telenor donations affair etc. but we would be here all night if I was to go on.
You see all I am doing is trying to add some balance to the thread. If you seriously think that the shower in govt are less clean than the shower in opposition then think again.0 -
Is it that you don't want to go on, or is it not just that there isn't much more to it than the above? That list isn't a list of guilt, and even at that it has nothing on FF.0
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Is it that you don't want to go on, or is it not just that there isn't much more to it than the above? That list isn't a list of guilt, and even at that it has nothing on FF.
Yeah, Jayzus having £200,000 written off by a bank and a fellow party member who is chairman of that bank is nothing. It happens every day and is perfectly acceptable. Vote these people in as their antics have nothing on FF.0 -
Yeah, Jayzus having £200,000 written off by a bank and a fellow party member who is chairman of that bank is nothing. It happens every day and is perfectly acceptable. Vote these people in as their antics have nothing on FF.
Political parties are not perfect, democracy isn't perfect for that matter but you're living in a different reality to me it appears. Fianna Fail are the masters of the fiddle and always know exactly how to look after Fianna Fail. This reality you appear to be in doesn't seem to have any shame or embarrassment as you seem to be fully backing said Fianna Fail.
I'll never forget the day I watched people pat Bertie on the back as he left Dublin castle after making a mockery of the political and legal systems of this country. I don't live that far from Dublin Castle and I was so angry I was worried I was going to go down there and do some things I'd most definitely get into trouble for. Any party that allows people, especially senior people, to remain in their jobs after some of the shenanigans we've seen deserves nothing but our contempt. We get the government we deserve and we earned this recession by what we allowed to happen. I'm just really really hoping we've learned something.0 -
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Joxer you appear to just gloss off any comments I make when I list FF members that have been proven to be true and launch into a tirade about FG.
That makes me really wonder about your motives and who you really are ?
You claim you post to offer balance, so far you have just targetted FG and made little of any FF misbehaviour.
And can you answer me were there any Labour councillors ever meeting Dunlop ?
FG councillors are linked into Dunlops little meetings and it looks like some of them probably did get "donations".
And I hope that they go to jail like Dunlop himself if they can prove they took money.
BTW the FF councillor I mentioned (and I only mentioned that one and not any of the ones linked to Dunlop) was proven to have acted fruadently, then he laid the blame on some councillor worker but he did go to jail.
You mention Lowry, and I would be very careful what you say becuase the Ben Dunne affair has been proven but the other allegations have not.
Did you notice that Lowry was kicked out and a hell of a lot more promptly than FF did with Lawlor, Burke, Fahy, Flynn etc etc.
FG have had some bad apples, Labour have had some dodgy characters too but FFS FF have barrel fulls of them and they never seem to be dumped.I am not allowed discuss …
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Joxer you appear to just gloss off any comments I make when I list FF members that have been proven to be true and launch into a tirade about FG.
That makes me really wonder about your motives and who you really are ?
You claim you post to offer balance, so far you have just targetted FG and made little of any FF misbehaviour.
And can you answer me were there any Labour councillors ever meeting Dunlop ?
FG councillors are linked into Dunlops little meetings and it looks like some of them probably did get "donations".
And I hope that they go to jail like Dunlop himself if they can prove they took money.
BTW the FF councillor I mentioned (and I only mentioned that one and not any of the ones linked to Dunlop) was proven to have acted fruadently, then he laid the blame on some councillor worker but he did go to jail.
You mention Lowry, and I would be very careful what you say becuase the Ben Dunne affair has been proven but the other allegations have not.
Did you notice that Lowry was kicked out and a hell of a lot more promptly than FF did with Lawlor, Burke, Fahy, Flynn etc etc.
FG have had some bad apples, Labour have had some dodgy characters too but FFS FF have barrel fulls of them and they never seem to be dumped.
JMAYO I bring you back to my first mail and it's purpose. Your statements above just reenforce my point. They are all at it!! Thanks0 -
FF now disclose their funding as do Labour, the Greens, SF and the socialist party. Check SIPO, this was in response to the findings of the tribunals in order to show who they were beholden to.0
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truebluedub wrote: »FF now disclose their funding as do Labour, the Greens, SF and the socialist party. Check SIPO, this was in response to the findings of the tribunals in order to show who they were beholden to.
So what about the story that appeared a couple of weeks ago where some FF memebrs had not in fact released information about their funding and that is was more than previously admitted ?
BTW are you on about bertie telling us all who he was beholden to and thus giving them seats on state boards/quangoes :rolleyes:I am not allowed discuss …
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So what about the story that appeared a couple of weeks ago where some FF memebrs had not in fact released information about their funding and that is was more than previously admitted ?
BTW are you on about bertie telling us all who he was beholden to and thus giving them seats on state boards/quangoes :rolleyes:
I said "party" not individual politician.0 -
truebluedub wrote: »I said "party" not individual politician.
To most people the party also means the elected members of said party.
They represent the party.
It's a bit like saying bertie, charlie, ray etc were dodgy, but the FF party was as clean as the driven snow :rolleyes:I am not allowed discuss …
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So what about the story that appeared a couple of weeks ago where some FF memebrs had not in fact released information about their funding and that is was more than previously admitted ?
BTW are you on about bertie telling us all who he was beholden to and thus giving them seats on state boards/quangoes :rolleyes:
Exactly I can't believe they got away with that TBH. The media should have stirred up a sh**storm over that.
What a joke our media is that they'd rather run more stories on public sector wages than highlight the corruption in the system.
If it was Britain, everyone would be running away from the political party but its Ireland so for some reason this behavior is acceptable.0 -
JMAYO I bring you back to my first mail and it's purpose. Your statements above just reenforce my point. They are all at it!! Thanks
Members of all political party's have been found to be involved in corruption, no doubt about that. However Fianna Fail are the masters of the fiddle so when I vote I won't be choosing the most corrupt bunch that's for sure.0 -
Political parities which have been in power for 12 years which is normally three election cycles are rarely re-elected simply because long periods of power invariably corrupt politicians and produce a cynical electorate. The most recent example is John Howard in Australia who managed to lose his fourth election despite presiding over 12 years of consistent growth and outspending the opposition Labour Party. Fianna Fail will be blamed for the recession. This is fair enough given that they would have claimed for the boom even though most of the factors that drive the economic cycle are dependent on world conditions and not under their control. So we don’t really need 10 reasons when one will do? The interesting question is how the other political parties will shake up in an alternative coalition. Sinn Fein is the dark horse. Will their vote hold up? Will the other parties touch them?. Chances are they will. What’s good for the Unionists is good or the gander.0
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SirHenryGrattan wrote: »Political parities which have been in power for 12 years which is normally three election cycles are rarely re-elected simply because long periods of power invariably corrupt politicians and produce a cynical electorate. The most recent example is John Howard in Australia who managed to lose his fourth election despite presiding over 12 years of consistent growth and outspending the opposition Labour Party. Fianna Fail will be blamed for the recession. This is fair enough given that they would have claimed for the boom even though most of the factors that drive the economic cycle are dependent on world conditions and not under their control. So we don’t really need 10 reasons when one will do? The interesting question is how the other political parties will shake up in an alternative coalition. Sinn Fein is the dark horse. Will their vote hold up? Will the other parties touch them?. Chances are they will. What’s good for the Unionists is good or the gander.
interesting perspective... but was John Howards party inherently corrupt? My OP was simply a statement of fustration, that the people in political power did not represent me or my values, but use the recession as part of their smoke and mirrors act, once it cures themselves, hey presto, they are back in power & everything is rosy
in summary not only are the government IMO inherently corrupt and incompetent, but do no represent the views & interests of tax compliant & honest hard working citizens
Ultimately its the electorate that decide if these values are acceptable or not, if they vote this government back in the people of Ireland are saying YES to corruption, greed and cronyism0
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