Quick Infrared filter strength question

.Longshanks.

I'm going to buy a IR filter off ebay to see what fun i can have with it. The cheapest start of around €10-12 so they are worth a try! Anyways, would a noob like me be better off with the 720 NM or 850 NM version?

I think I understand that the 850 one will block more visible light than the 720- so which would be better to get started?

melekalikimaka

what film ya using?? i'd go for 850 with some proper ir film, if its only near ir film drop it down a bit or you wont get much

.Longshanks.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

what film ya using?? i'd go for 850 with some proper ir film, if its only near ir film drop it down a bit or you wont get much

Film?? Whats that? :pac:
Its for my DSLR. I intend to give a tutorial from the FAQ section a go!

trishw78

I assume you've checked that you're camera can take IR shots. If so....

I have the Hoya R72 which I use the most and the Tiffen 87 filter... I plan on using the Tiffen this summer.

.Longshanks.

trishw78 wrote: »

I assume you've checked that you're camera can take IR shots. If so....

I have the Hoya R72 which I use the most and the Tiffen 87 filter... I plan on using the Tiffen this summer.

.....:o good point. Haven't a clue. Its a canon 1000d. It can go on adverts.ie if the camera can't take IR shots

trishw78

just point your remote control at the camera if you can see a purple or pink light when you press the buttons you're in business

.Longshanks.

trishw78 wrote: »

just point your remote control at the camera if you can see a purple or pink light when you press the buttons you're in business

Thanks. I'll have a look at that when get home this evening.
A quick google revealed this. It may need mod'ed and if so i'll pass.....

Duchovny

Be aware as well that Canon have issues working with IR, I shoot with a 40D and works fine but all the shoots need to be long exposure.

.Longshanks.

Duchovny wrote: »

Be aware as well that Canon have issues working with IR, I shoot with a 40D and works fine but all the shoots need to be long exposure.

**noob alert****

When you say issues – in what sense? From my very limited knowledge I understand that (if it works at all) I will have to use long exposures for IR pics as the filter blocks out most of the light visible to the eye…. Im not expecting to be able to take high / normal speed pics……if you get what I mean?
Or will putting an IR filter on my 1000d mean I get no pic at all?

Thanks....!

Duchovny

If you had a Nikon D60 for example you could take pictures with like a 1s long exposure when in canon you need 30s... something like that.

In my 40D it works and in Ireland i always do no less then 30s at F3.5

.Longshanks.

Perfect - thats what i thought. For €10-12 i think i'll give it a try to see how it goes

sasar

I had both 720 & 850 nm filters, used them on 400d and 40D.

I have to say 850nm was of no use, it doesn't let through enough light, so exposure had to be 30sec or more on a sunny day. 720nm is a lot better, you can get away with 10-15sec.

thefizz

melekalikimaka wrote: »

what film ya using?? i'd go for 850 with some proper ir film, if its only near ir film drop it down a bit or you wont get much

I know the OP is not using IR film but just to let anyone know who may want to try it, a 850nm filter will not work on any of the current IR films on the market.

Duchovny

sasar wrote: »

I had both 720 & 850 nm filters, used them on 400d and 40D.

I have to say 850nm was of no use, it doesn't let through enough light, so exposure had to be 30sec or more on a sunny day. 720nm is a lot better, you can get away with 10-15sec.

I use the Hoya R72 and less then 30s needs to be a really really sunny day and well we live in Ireland... I didnt try yet with the 24-70 F2.8 but i will when i will have the chance.

melekalikimaka

from my understanding... the glowing effect from ir comes not from the image being IR but from the anti-halation layer missing in the IR film causing the blooming... on digi what happens? do folk just add diffused glow?

.Longshanks.

I arrived home this evening to my 720nm filter from China Anyways, i have a very quick go at trying it out.


18mm f3.5 ISO 200 on the kit lens


With the filter, 16 second exposure


Some quick processing


More practice me thinks. Anybody got a links to in depth tutorials for when the sun next comes out?

TheNorthBank

Here's a couple of links I had saved in my favourites, don't know if they'll be much use to you but have a look.
I was using a Hoya R72 filter when I experimented with IR photography last year, I didn't do too well at it and I don't think my 400D was really cut out for it either. When I eventually upgrade my camera I'll have another crack at it.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ir.htm

http://dpfwiw.com/ir.htm#87x

.Longshanks.

^ Thanks for those link, i'm about to have a look into them

A second attempt after setting the WB to the a pic of bright grass with the filter on -used a 15 sec exposure. Then took a random pic in the back garden, again with 15 sec exposure. Into to PS and auto levels, auto contrast and reversed the blue and red colour channels.
Getting the funny colours i was after but still a long way to go

bernard0368

This is one I got with a 400d and Hoyar72 filter. If I am right I am sure the exposure was 2-3mins. I must try this on the 40d.

O'Coonassa

bernard0368 wrote: »

This is one I got with a 400d and Hoyar72 filter. If I am right I am sure the exposure was 2-3mins. I must try this on the 40d.

Did you photoshop that shot Bernard or was that how it was straight from the camera?

.Longshanks.

bernard0368 wrote: »

This is one I got with a 400d and Hoyar72 filter. If I am right I am sure the exposure was 2-3mins. I must try this on the 40d.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2763577440_5225017a5d.jpg

That’s totally stunning and exactly the effect I am hoping to get….but realise I’ve a long wat to go yet! Is there any chance you could post a brief step by step guide of how to set this shot up? From what I understand, setting up the custum white balance with the filter on is a very important step……but what setting should I have to do this? How long should the exposure be on this shot? …..so many possible questions
Im aware that my 1000d camera simply mightn’t be able to do this, but I really want to give it a try

thanks in advance

bernard0368

This was taken a while ago. I will try my best to explain how this was done. I just tried a quick test with a 40d and it didnt work( i Think I have set the white balance wrong using Av rather than M will have a look again at lunch I am getting a green cast as opposed to a red one .)

First I took a shot using manual of a dense tree (you could use grass) with the filter on. I then set this as the custom white balance.

Exposure was 2-4mins I am not 100% sure. on a 400d.

In photoshop I changed the channel mixer:
Red channel - red to 0, blue to 100
Blue Channel red to 100, blue to 0.

The I just messed around with the hue and saturation till I was happy.

look here as well

www.stevencastle.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/tips-for-infrared-shooting-on-a-d-slr

or
http://www.pbase.com/dlarson2/ir_work_flow

or
http://www.dphotojournal.com/photoshop-tutorial-adjusting-white-balance-in-ir-photos/

.Longshanks.

Thanks a million of that. I’ll have a good look into those links this evening after work.

Just another (!!) quick question – should the grass be red or white in the first shot that you base your new custom WB on? I had originally guessed red, but if it is suppose to be white when I was totally on wrong track!
I think I know what I’m at in PS about switching the red and blue channels….but didn’t go near curves or anything else just yet in my IR attempts.

Hopefully there is still a bit of sun this evening!

Thirdfox

Here's one taken with the R72 and a Nikon D40



Exposure time was quite short - 1-2 sec (at f8) it was a bright and sunny day though.

I've never really mastered the pseudo colour images - just converted to monochrome.

.Longshanks.

Thats a lovely shot. From wat i can gather your camera can handle infrared better so you can get away with a 1 second exposure but my canon needs a much longer exposure to get the same effect

bernard0368

Longshanks, to take the original image for the w/b use manual setting take a photograph of the grass as you would normally but with the filter on. In playback it will be black use this as to set the custom white balance.

Mycroft H

Theres an excellent article on ir and how to in this months what digital camera. I picked it up in tescos for 4 euro

.Longshanks.

Cheers for all the help people! Will swing past newsagent this evening as well as lookin at those links posted above

bernard0368

A quick one taken at lunch just to check on the previous post.

.Longshanks.

First of all thanks for all the help so far people!

So i had another go at a IR shot this evening. Its still not there so maybe somebody could point me in the right direction. I had a few attempts but this is the best i got before it started to cloud over and got.

1) Pic i used to set my custom WB. Taken with filter on, pic deliberately out of focus of some grass in sunshine to avoid reduce highlights in grass. 10 sec exposure at f3.5

Was this too orange and not red enough?


2) original from camera. Not in focus (ingore that and crap scenery ). It was a 60sec exposure again at f3.5.

Look too grey?

3) Best edit i could come up with without blowing out the darker colours. The greens should be white...any ideas where i'm going wrong?


Hope to try a 2-3 min shot tomorrow - weather depending.

TheNorthBank

TheNorthBank wrote: »

I was using a Hoya R72 filter when I experimented with IR photography last year, I didn't do too well at it and I don't think my 400D was really cut out for it either.

bernard0368 wrote: »

This is one I got with a 400d and Hoyar72 filter. If I am right I am sure the exposure was 2-3mins. I must try this on the 40d.

Oops, it certainly wasn't the 400D so! Thats a fantastic shot Bernard.

bernard0368

Longshanks, The image that you are using for the custom w/b is wrong.

Focus on the grass better if you have a tripod. Set the exposure manually with the filter fitted. The settings will be very close to the same as if the filter was not fitted. 10sec is too long. The image will appear black though. (basically as if you are taking a normal photograph) Set this as custom w/b, now make sure that you change the white balance on the camera to custom. Compose the image with the filter off, put the filter back on. Using the M setting set the shutter speed to bulb the f-stop at 5.6. Using a remote take the snap leave it going for 2mins next one at 3min and final one at 4min. Then see which works best. on the playback these images will have a reddish tint.

.Longshanks.

bernard0368 wrote: »

Longshanks, The image that you are using for the custom w/b is wrong.

Focus on the grass better if you have a tripod. Set the exposure manually with the filter fitted. The settings will be very close to the same as if the filter was not fitted. 10sec is too long. The image will appear black though. (basically as if you are taking a normal photograph) Set this as custom w/b, now make sure that you change the white balance on the camera to custom. Compose the image with the filter off, put the filter back on. Using the M setting set the shutter speed to bulb the f-stop at 5.6. Using a remote take the snap leave it going for 2mins next one at 3min and final one at 4min. Then see which works best. on the playback these images will have a reddish tint.

Thanks for the above.....now i need to apologise in advance as i must be getting annoying now..... but i'm still having trouble. I set the WB exactly as above and got the black image i needed.

The used this custom WB, framed the shot, reattached filter. The first pic below was for 4 minutes, but they all came out a green colour.

NB it was bright but overcast when i took these (i don't have patient to wait for the next sunny day with nice clouds )

All pics at f5.6 and ISO 100

Original after 4 min exposure


Auto levels and auto contrast


Revered reds and blues


Any suggestions?


Thanks,
Kevin

melekalikimaka

set the wb after you take the shot???

.Longshanks.

Yep - set up the custom WB as described above. Then turn it on and took 4 min exposure that turned out green....?

bernard0368

You are on the right track here. Sun Is important in taking Infared. I found with the 40d I was getting a green image as well. When I Used auto w/b on the image in raw processing it would give the red I was used to before. I had a qiuck look at the image you took.

.Longshanks.

Good to know im moving in the right direction! I'll have another go at this next week when get back from a trip that cameras aint allowed (a stag do ). Maybe i should be shooting raw?

melekalikimaka

yes in raw, wb correction is impossible without raw

CabanSail

+1 for RAW.

I was wondering why there was all this carry on about WB when if you shoot RAW then you just select the WB you want in PP

.Longshanks.

The penny dropped when bernard0368 & melekalikimaka mentioned raw. Changing the custom WB again in the raw converter gave the pink/red look i need before going anything else in PS. Before this i though setting the custom WB on the camera was enough but this made all images initially come out green

Anyways, finally some success. Need better subject but at least now i know what to start doing before trecking off the local lake or hillside

Cheers again guys for all your help.

Now to figure out how to get more colour into the final pic...!

Click for larger version on flickr

TheNorthBank

Longshanks100 wrote: »

The penny dropped when bernard0368 & melekalikimaka mentioned raw. Changing the custom WB again in the raw converter gave the pink/red look i need before going anything else in PS. Before this i though setting the custom WB on the camera was enough but this made all images initially come out green

Anyways, finally some success. Need better subject but at least now i know what to start doing before trecking off the local lake or hillside

Cheers again guys for all your help.

Now to figure out how to get more colour into the final pic...!

Click for larger version on flickr

Excellent stuff. Looking forward to seeing some more of your IR stuff now!