Anti Social Behaviour in Dublin

pushpop

Hi all,

I was driving to a christening in the Pro-Cathedral in Dublin yesterday afternoon, and stopped at lights on Gardiner st. I watched in utter amazement as a taxi took a corner at the same time as gang of what looked like 15 year olds in typical skanger attire were jaywalking. The taxi proceeded to beep at them to get them to move, so one of them proceeds to flip out and throw his uneaten ice cream cone at the taxi.

Yes that's right, he threw an ice cream cone (99 from the look of it). He missed but that's hardly the point. I genuinely thought he would pick it up and hurl at the car I was in, in which case I would've gotten out and ran after the little s**t. As a Dub, I see this sort of thing all over the city every day - Kids being forcibly ejected from arcades, shops etc., then vandalising it and running away; little kids walking up to tourists or passers-by and making faces at them or trying to intimidate them, or asking for money and hurling abuse when they dont get it; young lads openly dealing drugs on street corners and boardwalks; drinking, smoking and taking drugs on the backs of buses while hurling abuse at passengers and drivers when they confront them etc. etc. etc..

It got me thinking about how in Ireland, and Dublin particularly, there seems to be a very visible and very nasty antisocial youth subculture which shows no respect for anyone or anything. I would consider it visible enough that if I were a tourist visiting Dublin, it would give me second thoughts about re-visiting. I appreciate every big city always has a crime problem and that a lot of these kids are the product of disadvantaged or abusive backgrounds, but at the same time, I think it's fair to expect the average citizen to be able to conduct their daily lives without having to concern themselves with the chance of being intimidated or abused.

I'd love to know other peoples' opinions, as I think this is something that concerns a lot of people in Dublin.

Rb

We have a social welfare system, paid for by the taxpayer who've very little say in it, that allows young, single mothers to choose to never work a day in their life and still have the same money as someone doing an entry level job along with free housing.

If these young, single mothers didn't have this option at hand, I doubt as many of them would be breeding in the numbers they are. Not to mention those who breed specifically to avail of said options.

Until this changes, or we bring in a form of forced sterilisation, the problem just will not go away.

Jay D

I myself grew up in the North Strand and have always known little runts, who from a very young age were abusive to others, completely hateful, for no real reason it appeared at the time.

I was brought up to see people in a positive light and my mother taught me respect and manners where as others are constantly hearing f'ing Byrne, Smith, wanker Mr whoever. Don't get my wrong my parents cursed a lot like, not good either but I feel the fact they wouldn't give negative energy regarding everything made a difference. All but one really out of our group growing up were the same. One has since been to prison, turned to drugs etc etc...

Looking back now, of allthe people around me who did end up in trouble, they did so because they were the kids that were allowed curse, go more overboard than anyone else, do things and not get punished.

I am also seeing it now with certain people I know who will try to convince you that a fúcking 11 year old is just 'out of control' and if they don't leave him to it it will make things 10 times worse. That is complete dunce talk at it's finest and people saying this are just bad parents, plain and simple.

One of my firm beliefs as far as respecting others is concerned is that so many parents do not teach their children manners. I do get pissed off at times listening to how some kids demand stuff, or whatever and never ask nicely and never say thanks, goes a long way in the end.

lightening

pushpop wrote: »

I'd love to know other peoples' opinions, as I think this is something that concerns a lot of people in Dublin.

Jaywalking and ice cream throwing? I have seen much much worse in Dublin, Athlone, Cork, Limerick, Paris, Birmingham... etc... (you get the picture)

Jaywalking is part of Dublin, that's just the culture, I know in the likes of Berlin and Sydney people will wait for the green man with no traffic in sight. Dubliners don't do this.

I don't feel intimidated or abused on the streets of Dublin as you do.

However, I do agree with you, it is a concern, teen angst along with no schooling and bad parenting turns out disastrous, I don't think it's as bad as you think it is, certain pockets are worse than others. I do think it's a by product of big cities along with social issues, substance abuse, mental issues and no town city doesn't have it.

WillieCocker

Not the worst of stories i've heard.
But yes, Dublin at times can be Skanger Fest!!!!

poisonated

hey
just to say that its not people from poor backgrounds that are like this.I know people who are very wealthy and they are genuinely nice guys but when they were younger they used to act the sh.t.They would mess in the cinema and egg the dart and that type of thing.I know myself that I used to mess in the cinema.Im not proud of it...in fact looking back at it I feel pretty guilty.My point is that its a phase that people go through.Some people go through it worse than others.There is really no excuse but they need to be shown that its not tolerated.If the parents arent doing anything.... its time for you to say something,they dont stop because they know that people arent going to do anything either way.
by the way Im an upstanding citizen now:p

Anto McC

Jaysus, if only this was the worst of it.

orestes

poisonated wrote: »

hey
just to say that its not people from poor backgrounds that are like this.I know people who are very wealthy and they are genuinely nice guys but when they were younger they used to act the sh.t.They would mess in the cinema and egg the dart and that type of thing.I know myself that I used to mess in the cinema.Im not proud of it...in fact looking back at it I feel pretty guilty.My point is that its a phase that people go through.Some people go through it worse than others.There is really no excuse but they need to be shown that its not tolerated.If the parents arent doing anything.... its time for you to say something,they dont stop because they know that people arent going to do anything either way.
by the way Im an upstanding citizen now:p

There is a big difference in being a regular kid (I would classify messing in the cinema/egging the dart and that kind of low level mischief normal for kids of a certain age to be honest, and most of it is ultimitely harmless as they grow out of it) and being the kind of right little cnut who is gonna grow into a nasty bastard who is gonna contribute nothing to society and end up in prison or something somewhere down the line. Think Butters compared to Eric Cartman

mickoneill30

I used to work in Dublin City Centre. Every day I'd be asked several times for money and when you refuse some of those guys can turn nasty. The Luas stops are great for that. Frequently you'd see people walking around off their faces on drugs or drunk. The boardwalk is a handy spot for that too. About once or twice a month you get to see a punch up when the skangars go at each other. A couple of weeks ago I saw a couple of guys at around 5:30pm in O'Connell St. beating the living s**t out of each other. Drunk off their heads. You'd think that there might be a Gard or two on the main street of a capital city. Nah. Sure they were probably off catching speeding motorists that'd give them no hassle.

As a city that relies on its tourists as much as any city it's not a great image to be sending abroad. I've lived and worked in other capital cities and I'm sure they have problems too but at least they don't seem to have it on their main streets that thousands of people are on every day.

Wishbone Ash

pushpop wrote:

The taxi proceeded to beep at them to get them to move........ ..........I would've gotten out and ran after the little s**t

The taxi driver did exactly what the skangers wanted - he reacted to them. In that situation, I would have waited patiently and then have continued on my way. One must also remember that, for safety reasons, a pedestrian has right of way at all times, regardless of whether they are right or wrong.

Again, to run after them would have been idiotic and playing straight into their hands.

As a Dub, I see this sort of thing all over the city every day

Which makes me wonder why you watched in "utter amazement".

lightening wrote: »

Jaywalking and ice cream throwing? I have seen much much worse in Dublin, Athlone, Cork, Limerick, Paris, Birmingham... etc... (you get the picture)

100% agree.

lightening wrote:

I don't feel intimidated or abused on the streets of Dublin as you do.

Neither do I. I have never been abused, intimidated, pick-pocketed, mugged etc. in Dublin streets. I park on-street all the time and often where it is free (i.e. considered undesireable areas) and I have never had my car damaged or contents stolen.

I sometimes thank that there is a 'victim' culture out there. Is it a state of mind? The same people seem to feel intimidated and victimised all the time regardless of where they are.

lightening

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I sometimes thank that there is a 'victim' culture out there. Is it a state of mind? The same people seem to feel intimidated and victimised all the time regardless of where they are.

I don't know, maybe a lack of streetwiseness if that's a word? I have lived in the inner city for twelve years and socialised and knocked around the city every weekend for years and years. I have got in to hassle twice and got myself out of it fairly quick. I am not a big fella, I am fit and confident, maybe that's what it is about, a lack of confidence in the gait, the body language and eyes, making the wrong kind of eye contact... I have never been robbed, never been pickpocketed, never had my bike stolen, car broken in to, I never ever get stopped by chuggers, I often get asked for change by all forms of beggers, but never get abused if I refuse, I refuse with a smile and a word, "not today" or " I don't have any left"...

BraziliaNZ

Ok first of all you can't say anything bad about Dublin with Lightening in a thread. You tell him the weather's bad here he'll disagree.
I don't feel intimidated or threatened at all in Dublin, but i've lived here most of my life, and am used to it. The stuff you see on the streets here is not normal, I work near motor tax office and between here and liffey st i see junkie after junkie after scumbag getting up to all sorts when i go out for coffee or lunch. Fighting, walking around completely out of it, drinking on the streets monday mornings, beating their kids around, you name it you see it all here. The Garda completely ignore them. There was a junkie lying in his own piss and vomit outside the Bridewell last week for the WHOLE DAY and not one Garda did anything, probably 100 garda would have walked by him, and tonnes of tourists too.
Also - the other day on the LUAS the machine was broken and i couldn't buy a ticket - so when the inspector asked and i explained he was radioing HQ etc finding out if this was true and making a big deal. Everytime i'm on the LUAS i see junkies and scumbags with no tickets, they just tell them to get off at the next stop, no tickets or nothing - so it's one rule for scum and one rule for ordinary decent folk, what's that all about?
J-walking fair enough, we all do it, but they do it in the UK too and in Australia actually. Must be an anglo-irish thing.

lightening

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Ok first of all you can't say anything bad about Dublin with Lightening in a thread. You tell him the weather's bad here he'll disagree.

It's lovely out now.

I just feel some of the moaning on the forum is petty and silly, that's all, I do a lot in Dublin and enjoy it. Your points are valid, and I certainly do wear the rose tinted glasses! But it's easy for me, I live in an alright area that is near to the city and the sea, I don't have much of a commute, I use Dublin bay among a lot of the cities amenities. I do understand that people have it tougher in the city. I did have it bad at one stage, but still managed to have a good time and I don't concentrate on the negative.

gurramok

BraziliaNZ, you work beside the courts, what do you expect?!

The same of what you witness every day will happen beside every court complex of any major city in Europe.

Sure, i went to the Motor tax office a couple of weeks ago and noticed some dodgy characters hanging around nearby, guess what it was...the Childrens Court!

R.D. aka MR.D

i think the problem is that these people seem to like to hang out in the city centre. in other european cities there are less people lving in the city centre area that might be involved in such things.

it exists everywhere but unfortunatly it happens in front of most of our tourists.

i tend to agree with people saying that some people appear more vulnerable to these people.
i'm a girl and before i moved to dublin from a rural area. i was told never look anyone in the street in the eye!and its saved me a mountain of trouble. i have loads of friends who get shouted at and threated and it was because they were staring or making their presence known.

i think they think if you ignore them its because you've seen it all before and aren't worth their attention because they won't get a rise out of you.

its all about confidence.

i've said it before and i'll say it again the gards have left us to fend for ourselves. why would they risk hassle (i.e the job they signed up for :rolleyes:) to make our lives easier/make us feel safer.

BraziliaNZ

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

i've said it before and i'll say it again the gards have left us to fend for ourselves. why would they risk hassle (i.e the job they signed up for :rolleyes:) to make our lives easier/make us feel safer.

I'm not sure if they are lazy or just afraid of them. The guards here look like clowns, not in the least bit intimidating, take a look at the police in germany or spain and they look like hard bastards, their dress is military-like, our ones look like f*cking muppets, stupid thick dumb ass culchies, why would you recognise them as authority? They need a revamp, and to harden the f*ck up.

Wishbone Ash

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

The stuff you see on the streets here is not normal

I'd argue that it is normal as it happens everyday and in most other cities.

BraziliaNZ wrote:

I work near motor tax office and between here and liffey st

That's a very large area (from Queen Street to Liffey Street) making it more likely that you'll see undesireables.

BraziliaNZ wrote:

Fighting, walking around completely out of it, drinking on the streets monday mornings, beating their kids around, you name it you see it all here. The Garda completely ignore them. There was a junkie lying in his own piss and vomit outside the Bridewell last week for the WHOLE DAY and not one Garda did anything, probably 100 garda would have walked by him, and tonnes of tourists too

Personally I don't find that intimidating. The junkies and winos are usually fighting among themselves and are usually too spaced out to cause any damage. There's probably not much that the Gardai can do as we have a 'revolving door' custodial system.

I pulled at traffic lights in the north inner city this morning. There was a large group of junkies standing beside the lights staggering about scalding themselves with take-away coffee as they fumbled for cigarettes. All around me other drivers were raising their windows, taking jackets from hooks, placing stuff in the passenger footwells etc. afraid of a crowd of junkies who could barely stand up never mind do a 'snatch and grab'.

The junkies that they should be more afraid of are the ones that they don't notice, i.e. the 'ordinary' looking ones who carry out most of the crime.

BraziliaNZ

fair enough but i still think doing heroin in public and walking around off your face in the city centre is anti-social behaviour, is it not?

mickoneill30

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

fair enough but i still think doing heroin in public and walking around off your face in the city centre is anti-social behaviour, is it not?

Absolutely. A lot of the posters here seem to think that this behaviour is OK as long as they're not intimidated.

I don't think the OP was talking about being intimidated. Anti social behaviour can still be anti social if you're not intimidated. That doesn't make it OK. Saying it happens in other cities doesn't make it OK either even if that's true (and it's certainly not true of all capital cities).

I'd prefer to try to be like the cities where it doesn't happen on the main streets of the capital rather than compare Dublin to crapholes and say "sure it happens there too".

Maybe it's just a few people that would like to not have to avoid the boardwalk to avoid bums, would prefer to get change out of Luas machine without have some geezer wander up looking for some change, doesn't find it amusing to see a couple of skangers having a scrap on O'Connell St. and doesn't find it acceptable that guys are wandering around injecting nearby and stoned off their faces.

markopantelic

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I'm not sure if they are lazy or just afraid of them. The guards here look like clowns, not in the least bit intimidating, take a look at the police in germany or spain and they look like hard bastards, their dress is military-like, our ones look like f*cking muppets, stupid thick dumb ass culchies, why would you recognise them as authority? They need a revamp, and to harden the f*ck up.

best poster on here by a mile lmao. so true, all guards should be forced to undergo 6 months of intense MMA training.

a change in uniform is vital as well imo, needs to be an all dark blue uniform and not these navy slacks they wear here with big goofy shoes.

lightening

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Absolutely. A lot of the posters here seem to think that this behaviour is OK as long as they're not intimidated

Guilty. Good points, you too BraziliaNZ, you are right in a way, it is unacceptable. What are you going to do about it? Smashing away on your keyboard isn't going to sort it out. I have been part of an inner city youth group I helped out for two years, every single weekend. I genuinely feel I helped.

BraziliaNZ

Well I'm not doing anything about it, I pay tax and behave myself I don't see why others can't, and i'm sure there's all sorts of people employed to help these people, they are just in a totally different mindframe to everyone else and nothing will change them. I don't want to help them, I look down at them, as scum of the earth, I'd rather they just all died of AIDS or something to be honest.

lightening

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Well I'm not doing anything about it, I pay tax

That's the attitude!

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't want to help them, I look down at them, as scum of the earth, I'd rather they just all died of AIDS or something to be honest.

Fair enough, I suggest you move somewhere else.

BraziliaNZ

But how am i supposed to feel any sympathy for these eyesores?

lightening

It's not a case of sympathy.

I know, it's hard, but sometimes instead of just complaining about it all the time action needs to be taken. Sitting at your PC ranting and raving at us will get you nowhere.

You are right though, it's a pain in the ass, they are bullies in groups (easy thing to be!).

This is obviously bothering you, do you take action? Do you call the gardai? If they are called enough times they will do something, I have experience with this, when I said I was going to do something about a problem if they didn't they took action. Also, it's election time, make your voice heard.

lenovoguy

Wow, lot's of responses! Where to start....

i'm a girl and before i moved to dublin from a rural area. i was told never look anyone in the street in the eye!and its saved me a mountain of trouble. i have loads of friends who get shouted at and threated and it was because they were staring or making their presence known.

Do you not see how utterly absurd that is ? You shouldn't have to "not look anyone in the street in the eye," walking around like a scared child. You seem to treat the threat of being shouted at and threatened as an inevitable fact of life. It's not, and the ubiquity of this attitude is part of the problem.

I am not a big fella, I am fit and confident, maybe that's what it is about, a lack of confidence in the gait, the body language and eyes, making the wrong kind of eye contact...

Same applies there I have to say.

The guards here look like clowns, not in the least bit intimidating, take a look at the police in germany or spain and they look like hard bastards, their dress is military-like, our ones look like f*cking muppets, stupid thick dumb ass culchies, why would you recognise them as authority? They need a revamp, and to harden the f*ck up.

I concur - the guards' appearance gives them a buffoonish, sloppy and unprofessional aura about them. It depresses me when I look at continental policemen and women, who resemble soldiers more than cops, armed to the teeth and clearly well trained, and then you look at our shambles, who resemble Dad's army more than anything else. They'll happily set up speed traps at a moment's notice on motorways, but are nowhere to be found in council estates where boy racers and skangers intimidate locals by screeching around at twice or three times the speed limit - i.e. tackling the broader social issues at hand.

Everytime i'm on the LUAS i see junkies and scumbags with no tickets, they just tell them to get off at the next stop, no tickets or nothing - so it's one rule for scum and one rule for ordinary decent folk, what's that all about?

Totally agree - it's ridiculous. As one poster says, system of social welfare/housing which effectively incentivises and rewards laziness, cheating and truancy. I heard a great statement once that said in Ireland, the better your work ethic, the harder you'll have to work for your money.

As a city that relies on its tourists as much as any city it's not a great image to be sending abroad. I've lived and worked in other capital cities and I'm sure they have problems too but at least they don't seem to have it on their main streets that thousands of people are on every day.

Agree with this also. It's not being intimidated I find as the problem, it's the sheer ubiquity of this drug-addled, violent, anti-social and apathetic subculture in Dublin and the utter inability of our police force to motivate themselves to deal with it.

I have never been abused, intimidated, pick-pocketed, mugged etc. in Dublin streets.

Neither have I, incidentally, but I know plenty of people who have. One of my best friends got punched in the face after being asked for a cigarette which he didn't have. Another friend got asked for the time on Bachelor's walk boardwalk and when he looked down at his watch he was kicked in the chest and had his phone stolen. I've seen it first hand as regards abuse and intimidation. On one occasion I drew a Guard's attention to it but I'm not sure what they did about it.

I sometimes thank that there is a 'victim' culture out there. Is it a state of mind? The same people seem to feel intimidated and victimised all the time regardless of where they are.

I don't think that's true really, I think there are plenty of well-meaning people who try to go about their daily lives but nonetheless become the subject of abuse or threats.

lightening

lenovoguy wrote: »

walking around like a scared child

I think you misread her post. She just got streetwise, that's all. Cities can be dangerous. And the same doesn't apply to me at all.

lenovoguy wrote: »

but I know plenty of people who have....

We all have our anecdotes and stories... People get punched in the face in every city every minute. I don't mean it's acceptable, its just the way it is, there are violent a88holes everywhere.

Hey, BraziliaNZ, your gripe was highlighed on the news last night, druggies dealing and using on the streets, so you are right in that way, it is a major and a growing problem. They were going on about them doing it in front of tourists... I wonder are RTE researchers reading this thread? Some of the reporting was very close to what has been said here!

Franky_1965

I have lived in 3 different continents, large cities, small villages. Some uppity places and some really shady places. Sure I got some "foreigner abuse" here and there (mostly in the uppity places), not due to race, but just having a different nationality. I always managed to blend in, adapt to the culture and my my taxes as a good citizen. Being 47 years old, I have seen enough of the world to know what it out there and have been safe and out of trouble for that time.
That was until yesterday, when on eastwall road, a group of about 10 of those lovely tracksuit fellows in their 20's passed me on the side walk and one of them just pushed me on the road.

Most will say "oh just walk away from it", but when you find yourself surrounded by a group of thugs, which direction can you walk? It was evident that they were looking to just beat up on someone, anyone would do.

Now with the 10 of them they were real brave, not really coming at you but distract you so their mates can come up from behind. I know enough to know that once you are worked down to the ground, you end up in hospital with broken bones (if your lucky)

The one thing they didn't put in their calculation is that I had the sense to put my back to a wall and that I haven't forgotten my unarmed combat training from when I was in the Royal Dutch marines.

Now instead of making this a great war story to tell, it ended with them taking off, when someone called the Gardai (which never arrived) and the 10 of them weren't enough to bring me down.

Just ask yourself, would the average 47 year of walk away from this situation unscathed?

The only reason these scumbags do it, is because they get away with it. The only way to stop this behavior is not to build more youth centers, hold their hands and being understanding of their upbringing.

I grew up in a rough area, and I done my share of mischief, but one thing I didn't do was randomly beat up on passersby-er in the street for the simple reason that I would have, my arse handed to me by the community who would have come out of their houses with a 2x4 end of wood instead of just peering through the curtain.

Its a community problem for sure. It needs to be fixed by the community