Who will win the League of Ireland 1st division.

Lamper.sffc

11 games gone. First phase done. We have all played each other once. Whats your opinion on the teams so far. I guess its quite obvious that the biggest surprise is the run UCD are on. Im extremely impressed with their form. Fair play to them. Waterford have been impressive also.
I guess the teams who need to do better are ourselves and shels although an argument could be made that the start both teams have made are decent but its just the brilliant form of UCD and Waterford that is keeping the favourites off the top.
Our form is up and down. Brilliant one week crap the next. While it seems shels are grinding out results without playing to well (for the full 90 anyway).
So i guess the question is are the favourites still the favourites and will it be a four horse race like it was last year.

VinylJunkie

Ive seen everyone and if UCD can keep players fit they will win it for sure! Fungus I believe will come good towards the end of the season but I still think UCD will have enough.

Shels on the other hand are playing poorly espically in the first half of almost every match.

I predict;

1. UCD
2. Fungus
3. Shelbourne

Gavin "shels"

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=118002 :pac:


I'll give it another month or two to decide, I personnally can't see UCD's young squad keeping up, and we had the same rough start to the season as we did last season iirc.

DSB

The way the sides currently are, I'd probably have Shels to edge it, but I can imagine Fingal buying in another truckload of players in July, which might prove the turning point. Might make things even less stable though. UCD have done well, but I don't see them keeping it up. Waterford I see keeping it up, but losing vital matches to Shels and Fingal which will see them a little bit behind the other 2.

SectionF

DSB wrote: »

The way the sides currently are, I'd probably have Shels to edge it, but I can imagine Fingal buying in another truckload of players in July, which might prove the turning point. Might make things even less stable though. UCD have done well, but I don't see them keeping it up. Waterford I see keeping it up, but losing vital matches to Shels and Fingal which will see them a little bit behind the other 2.

Are you talking about financial instability? Any more on this?

DSB

SectionF wrote: »

Are you talking about financial instability? Any more on this?

No nothing like that, I think thats a while away yet, as long as they're being backed. However, nearly every week I'm reading the opposition fans talking about the players looking like they don't care less, and I've heard stories about unrest at the club. Gary O'Neill being the main 1. Could all just be talk though, they seemed up for it enough, when we played them. But if a new batch of players were brought in when July comes, I'd imagine that could rustle the feathers of some of the current ones. Again, that might be clutching at straws because Fingal do have the spending power to sign a team in July that could destroy us. But I don't think there current side is really that much better than the rest.

Lamper.sffc

Gavin shels wrote: »

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=118002 :pac:


Yeah I know. Im a lazy SH*T. Copy and paste is my friend:p The title is different:)

SectionF

DSB wrote: »

No nothing like that, I think thats a while away yet, as long as they're being backed. However, nearly every week I'm reading the opposition fans talking about the players looking like they don't care less, and I've heard stories about unrest at the club. Gary O'Neill being the main 1. Could all just be talk though, they seemed up for it enough, when we played them. But if a new batch of players were brought in when July comes, I'd imagine that could rustle the feathers of some of the current ones. Again, that might be clutching at straws because Fingal do have the spending power to sign a team in July that could destroy us. But I don't think there current side is really that much better than the rest.

Nightmare for Irish football if they get promoted...

Assuming they have tiny support, how do they work with the salary cost protocal (or does that apply in 1st div?).

_blank_

SectionF wrote: »

Assuming they have tiny support, how do they work with the salary cost protocal (or does that apply in 1st div?).

It applies in the First Division alright (as much as it applies in the Premier I'd assume, some clubs will get away with it, some won't, but that's a side issie), not that many clubs come close to topping it.

Fingal employ the players as litter wardens, community liaison officers and a whole plethora of other things.

It's the playing wages that can't exceed 65%

DSB

Des wrote: »

It applies in the First Division alright (as much as it applies in the Premier I'd assume, some clubs will get away with it, some won't, but that's a side issie), not that many clubs come close to topping it.

Fingal employ the players as litter wardens, community liaison officers and a whole plethora of other things.

It's the playing wages that can't exceed 65%

Rumours that this will be amended next year to include all wages which would be absolutely excellent.

Lamper.sffc

SectionF wrote: »

Nightmare for Irish football if they get promoted...

Assuming they have tiny support, how do they work with the salary cost protocal (or does that apply in 1st div?).

:pac:Right. we are the ones going to be the nightmare for irish football. Dont know if you have noticed but there maybe a few other clubs involved in creating that nightmare. Didnt take long for the bitching i see:rolleyes:

SectionF

Des wrote: »

Fingal employ the players as litter wardens, community liaison officers and a whole plethora of other things.

:eek:

Is that material for a Phoenix story, a hilarious chant, or both?

Are you saying that the club actually has litter wardens, or are they on the council staff?

_blank_

SectionF wrote: »

Are you saying that the club actually has litter wardens, or are they on the council staff?

I was being somewhat facetious.

The players are given "jobs" for which they are paid a wage.

They are then given part time playing contracts, for which they are paid a part time wage.

Yes, they are probably Fingal CC jobs, they might well be Sporting Fingal jobs.

But then again, they might be one and the same.

SectionF

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Didnt take long for the bitching i see:rolleyes:

If you think the opposition to the notion of Sporting Franchise has begun with this thread, then you could do well to look in the archives. I believe you'll find plenty of it on news of your invention, and before your club even kicked a ball.
Fingal FC. Made in Co. Council HQ, 2008.

Quint

DSB wrote: »

Rumours that this will be amended next year to include all wages which would be absolutely excellent.

I'd LOVE IT if that happened. Fingal can go back underneath the rock they crawled from. No offence lamper

DSB

SectionF wrote: »

If you think the opposition to the notion of Sporting Franchise has begun with this thread, then you could do well to look in the archives. I believe you'll find plenty of it on news of your invention, and before your club even kicked a ball.
Fingal FC. Made in Co. Council HQ, 2008.

Haha at least this ends the notion Fingal fans have that its only Shels fans who oppose their existence.

Lamper.sffc

DSB wrote: »

Haha at least this ends the notion Fingal fans have that its only Shels fans who oppose their existence.

Never did, but its shels who shout the loudest and you most of all.

SectionF wrote: »

If you think the opposition to the notion of Sporting Franchise has begun with this thread, then you could do well to look in the archives. I believe you'll find plenty of it on news of your invention, and before your club even kicked a ball.
Fingal FC. Made in Co. Council HQ, 2008.

Eh, believe me i dont believe the opposition started with this thread. The bitching im refering to is not even the fact you mention my club. I just mean it doesnt take long for a thread to do with the League of ireland to descend into a bitching competition just ask DSB he knows all about it.

Those in glass houses people.

Can we get back on topic. Or will we keep on with the club bashing.

thusspakeblixa

I'd agree with DSB in saying that UCD won't last the pace, neither will Waterford. it'll be between ourselves and Franchise

stovelid

Des wrote: »

I was being somewhat facetious.

The players are given "jobs" for which they are paid a wage.

They are then given part time playing contracts, for which they are paid a part time wage.

Yes, they are probably Fingal CC jobs, they might well be Sporting Fingal jobs.

But then again, they might be one and the same.

Is there not rumours that a player or two in the premier division is being paid as a 'coach' and not a player as well.

Personally, I'd like to see Shels end up top, but it's hard to look past SF if the backing continues.

Paulw

I'd say UCD and Fingal will get through this year. UCD are looking very strong, as long as injury doesn't bite.

In relation to clubs, seriously, what is the problem with another club in the league, no matter where the funds come from? Surely having more clubs is better, for football?

All clubs are finding it very hard to finance, look at Cork, Drogheda, etc, etc, etc So what if people want to pump money in to a club?

The main issue with the whole LOI is that there is not enough gate attendance. That even applies to the large clubs.

Now, can we talk about football, and not business?

_blank_

Paulw wrote: »

The main issue with the whole LOI is that there is not enough gate attendance. That even applies to the large clubs.

Apart from Cork City, who's average attendance is ~15,000

LuckyLloyd

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I'd agree with DSB in saying that UCD won't last the pace, neither will Waterford. it'll be between ourselves and Franchise

UCD have Fingal at home on Thursday week. If we can win that game (and beat Limerick this weekend) we will have a seven - ten point gap over them, and the squad will probably feel invincible. Of course, a defeat could spark off a bad run of form.

The question with UCD is what happens when injuries and / or the first bad run of consecutive results come to pass. This is a very young and relatively inexperienced squad. It remains to be seen whether they will be mentally tough enough - they certainly have the talent.

thusspakeblixa

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The question with UCD is what happens when injuries and / or the first bad run of consecutive results come to pass. This is a very young and relatively inexperienced squad. It remains to be seen whether they will be mentally tough enough - they certainly have the talent.

That's exactly my point. Your squad lacks depth and experience. In saying that, UCD are by far the best First Division side we've faced so far. And I include Fingal in that.

DSB

Paulw wrote: »

I'd say UCD and Fingal will get through this year. UCD are looking very strong, as long as injury doesn't bite.

In relation to clubs, seriously, what is the problem with another club in the league, no matter where the funds come from? Surely having more clubs is better, for football?

All clubs are finding it very hard to finance, look at Cork, Drogheda, etc, etc, etc So what if people want to pump money in to a club?

The main issue with the whole LOI is that there is not enough gate attendance. That even applies to the large clubs.

Now, can we talk about football, and not business?

The problem is with the geographical location. Plenty of areas in Ireland need a club, Dublin already had too many. It is akin to a multi billionaire pumping into an already saturated market, that he'll never get the demand for. Sure, he can afford the loss, but whats the point?

Lamper.sffc

DSB wrote: »

The problem is with the geographical location. Plenty of areas in Ireland need a club, Dublin already had too many. It is akin to a multi billionaire pumping into an already saturated market, that he'll never get the demand for. Sure, he can afford the loss, but whats the point?

Attendances are rising this year for us. We already have the second or third highest attendance in the league so its starting to prove that there is an appetite for our club. As pointed out on numerous occasions the population of dublin and the appetite for football far exceeds the majority of other counties especially any counties outside the east coast hence why there are so many clubs in this part of the island. Simple maths really. If the need for football teams elsewhere was strong enough they would exist. Dont get me wrong the league would be better off with a wider spread of clubs but there is a reason that doesnt happen, the interest for soccer in a lot of the country is not there and its not just because of the EPL. How many clubs are there in london compared to other areas in england.

The point of him pumping money into our club as you put it (which he doesnt) is good PR for him and it allows a community such as ours to enjoy our own club. Which we do.

Gannon actually doesnt put any money into the team, He pays for certain facilities lets say;)
The money to pay for everything else comes from sponsorship. Thats the truth but im sure you will believe what you want to believe, sure it gives you something to post about CSF sorry I mean DSB.

DSB

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Attendances are rising this year for us. We already have the second or third highest attendance in the league so its starting to prove that there is an appetite for our club. As pointed out on numerous occasions the population of dublin and the appetite for football far exceeds the majority of other counties especially any counties outside the east coast hence why there are so many clubs in this part of the island. Simple maths really. If the need for football teams elsewhere was strong enough they would exist. Dont get me wrong the league would be better off with a wider spread of clubs but there is a reason that doesnt happen, the interest for soccer in a lot of the country is not there and its not just because of the EPL. How many clubs are there in london compared to other areas in england.

The point of him pumping money into our club as you put it (which he doesnt) His connection lets say with our club is good PR for him and it allows a community such as ours to enjoy our own club. Which we do.

Gannon actually doesnt put any money into the team, He pays for certain facilities lets say;)
The money to pay for everything else comes from sponsorship. Thats the truth but im sure you will believe what you want to believe, sure it gives you something to post about CSF sorry I mean DSB.

OMGZ you know the initials of my band, you fiend. Your wink says it all about Gannon, and whether he puts it in as physical money or other forms of financial input is irrelevant really. The appetite for live football is terrible in Dublin, I don't get where you're coming from is terrible. And having the second or third highest attendances in the First Division is not an achievement, hell, having the highest attendances in the First Division isn't even an achievement, nor is having one of the middle attendances in the Premier, because the fact remains that attendances were already poor for Dublin clubs, and with 5 Dublin clubs already in the league, there was simply no need. Perhaps if some day you absolutely destroy the attendances of every other club in Dublin, then maybe there was a market and a need. But until then, you're just a football team put in for the sake of it, with no history, and no purpose. Wexford Youths may be a team with no history, and some of the teams could be argued have no purpose when playing to 100 people or so, but at least all the others have one or the other. Fingal are just a plaything.

DSB

Also, I'm not debating whether Fingal may become a Premier team and maybe build up to 1000+ attendances or whatever, but my main question is whats the point? The county already had 5 clubs.

themont85

I'd love the 'Franchise' to win just cause it would piss everyone of here. Them or UCD cause they're my local side but the 'enemy' in a sense as im a former Trinity head.

stovelid

themont85 wrote: »

I'd love the 'Franchise' to win just cause it would piss everyone of here. Them or UCD cause they're my local side but the 'enemy' in a sense as im a former Trinity head.

Sterling contribution.

Are you finished?

Lamper.sffc

DSB wrote: »

OMGZ you know the initials of my band, you fiend. Your wink says it all about Gannon, and whether he puts it in as physical money or other forms of financial input is irrelevant really. The appetite for live football is terrible in Dublin, I don't get where you're coming from is terrible. And having the second or third highest attendances in the First Division is not an achievement, hell, having the highest attendances in the First Division isn't even an achievement, nor is having one of the middle attendances in the Premier, because the fact remains that attendances were already poor for Dublin clubs, and with 5 Dublin clubs already in the league, there was simply no need. Perhaps if some day you absolutely destroy the attendances of every other club in Dublin, then maybe there was a market and a need. But until then, you're just a football team put in for the sake of it, with no history, and no purpose. Wexford Youths may be a team with no history, and some of the teams could be argued have no purpose when playing to 100 people or so, but at least all the others have one or the other. Fingal are just a plaything.

Point still stands my angry little friend. Never said our attendances where an achievement and why do we have to destroy all other attendances to prove their is a need for our club. If attendances are so bad for other dublin clubs do you think we are taking away fans from these clubs, dont think so. If we are getting decent crowds for the first division then there is a need for our club as much as there is a need for any club in that division. I dont see how we have created any problem for any other team in the LOI. People want to see us so we are fulfilling a purpose. You get 2 to 300 hundred more than us on average so you deserve to stay in the league because of your history since when is that the criteria.
A team gets to survive because there is a need for that team end of. Time will tell with us and all your bitching and whining wont make a bit of difference.

Nice to see you repeating the same bile iv been listening to for the last year from you just because you have a new audience.

I dont go about trying to attack other fans on here and their clubs unless they attack first. I just want my club to survive. I know we dont go about everything the right way but i will defend my club when people are just trying to tear it down for their own selfish reasons.

Lamper.sffc

DSB wrote: »

Also, I'm not debating whether Fingal may become a Premier team and maybe build up to 1000+ attendances or whatever, but my main question is whats the point? The county already had 5 clubs.

Because you cant.

The point is that people will be watching a club they want to watch whether its 200 or 2000 fans.

We could do this all night. We already have too many times. Your not asking that question to me because you have asked me it so many times before. Your just hoping for others to up your thanks count and for the converted to way in with the same stuff over and over again.

themont85

stovelid wrote: »

Sterling contribution.

Are you finished?

I support franchises, i hope it succeeds.

I went to a couple of UCD games when younger but didn't return for a vareity of reasons. I always thought in a standard like the LoI that UCD and other college teams could do well like in the AIL. They have plenty of players at the right age and plenty of supporters to fill the Bowl. Is the current team largely drawn from the college?

stovelid

themont85 wrote: »

I support franchises, i hope it succeeds.

I would like them to fail, although I don't hate them as much as the others. I can fully understand the dislike of them from the Bohs and Shels lads though. A similar wheeze in a southside constituency would be diabolical.

themont85 wrote: »

and plenty of supporters to fill the Bowl.

John_C

Conan Byrne has a sports management degree and worked part time as promotion officer for UCD. He moved to Fingal, taking a drop from Premier to First Division football, to take up a full time marketing position. I don't know anything about other Fingal players but his job is legit.

Zebra3

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Attendances are rising this year for us. We already have the second or third highest attendance in the league

Well there is a blatant lie.

_blank_

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well there is blatant lie there.

I actually missed that.

WTF lamper, who are you trying to fool?

Or are you talking about the First Division only?

Even at that, Shels have a bigger crowd, a bigger crowd home and away in most cases, than every other team in the Division.

Bohs must be banning people again if your crowds are up :rolleyes:

dfx-

Waterford would be my preference. By all accounts they were impressive last night..albeit against a pretty poor if strong Rovers line-up.

I think Shels will win it though. I thought that last season too..

CiaranC

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well there is a blatant lie.

Theyve been getting 600-700 mosts weeks have they not?

Whos getting more than that?

Zebra3

CiaranC wrote: »

Theyve been getting 600-700 mosts weeks have they not?

Whos getting more than that?

Ourselves and probably everyone in the Premier. :rolleyes:

That leaves them at best with the 12th biggest crowds in the league.

SectionF

With too many clubs in Dublin already, most of them one grumpy revenue official or other creditor away from oblivion, can someone please explain the point and purpose of another?

I can see that it would suit a political agenda for a developer and a council and a few displaced coaches and players. But I can't see any natural case for it, any more than I can see an argument for a Rathdown Rovers. There is no football logic in it; there is no vacuum to be filled; there is no groundswell of football, as in Wexford and Kerry.

Looking at it from a Dublin club and national league perspective, it is no more than opportunistic short-termism that can only split support, skew the league even more geographically, and do long-term damage.

CiaranC

Zebra3 wrote: »

Ourselves and probably everyone in the Premier. :rolleyes:

That leaves them at best with the 12th biggest crowds in the league.

Average crowds so far this season from that UCD geek over on foot, 12th of May:

FIRST DIVISION
Shels - 995
Sporting Fingal - 758
Harps - 600
Athlone - 599
Wexford - 585
Limerick - 564
Waterford - 472
Longford - 448
Mervue - 282
Kildare - 228
UCD - 204
Monaghan - 155

stovelid

Pretty surprised actually. I thought SF had much lower crowds. Not too far off Shels.

DSB

That average would be massively inflated by the massive crowd we bring out there though. 1429 like. Pretty much double their average.

CiaranC

DSB wrote: »

That average would be massively inflated by the massive crowd we bring out there though. 1429 like. Pretty much double their average.

Fair enough. Im no mathematician, but double the crowd one week of ten is not a "massive inflation".

I reckon theyve picked up some refugees from the goon show in Phibsboro.

DSB

CiaranC wrote: »

Fair enough. Im no mathematician, but double the crowd one week of ten is not a "massive inflation".

I reckon theyve picked up some refugees from the goon show in Phibsboro.

Take the Shels game out and their average is 623.

CiaranC

DSB wrote: »

Take the Shels game out and their average is 623.

Surely having a local derby is a natural factor in your crowds.

Its nearer to 700. But anyway, they are second in the Division, which is the point I was making to Zebra3.

DSB

CiaranC wrote: »

Surely having a local derby is a natural factor in your crowds.

Its nearer to 700. But anyway, they are second in the Division, which is the point I was making to Zebra3.

Its not nearer to 700, I think you're calculating on the basis that they play 10 home games instead of 10 in general. And having a derby is a natural factor but its a massive boost to your crowds, when the team who your derby is against are far and away the highest attendances in the league.

Zebra3

CiaranC wrote: »

Surely having a local derby is a natural factor in your crowds.

Its nearer to 700. But anyway, they are second in the Division, which is the point I was making to Zebra3.

It seems neither yourself nor the Franchisee understand the difference between "Division" and "League". :rolleyes:

CiaranC

DSB wrote: »

Its not nearer to 700, I think you're calculating on the basis that they play 10 home games instead of 10 in general.

Yes i was, good point.

Zebra3 wrote: »

It seems neither yourself nor the Franchisee understand the difference between "Division" and "League". :rolleyes:

This is a division one thread. I was speaking in that context. Fingal have the second highest average in the DIVISION then.

(BTW, do you sing "were gonna win the division" at Shels?)

Zebra3

CiaranC wrote: »

This is a division one thread. I was speaking in that context.

So what you are saying is that both yourself and Lamper are wrong?

CiaranC

Zebra3 wrote: »

So what you are saying is that both yourself and Lamper are wrong?

Im saying that Sporting Franchise have the second highest attendances in the First Division. Get off your high horse. Shels are not exactly renowned for spectacular crowds themselves.