Ireland Squad Announced

Spud83

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Gibson's done ok for us overall when he's played, and he has spent the season training with great players and coaches - and has made 13 appearances for a team that may yet do a treble. I think that, right now at this moment, his selection is justifiable. If he dropped down to a Championship side / lower Premiership side and started week in, week out it may be the making of him.

All I said was Ferguson doesn't seem to have that much faith in him. Never said anything about him being in the squad or team. The reasons you have for him being in the team are fine, using Ferguson faith as a reason is not.

Drummerboy2

I'm delighted that Sean St Ledger and Liam Lawrence are included. Surprised to see Best there but worth a look. Think its time now to select Kevin Foley who had another great season for Wolves. He is well worth a start against Nigeria. I'm a little disappointed that McCarthy and Garvan are not included. Can't understand why Miller is still in the squad, his career has totally nose-dived. I still have high hopes for Keogh. Don't know where previous poster got his information about him having a nightmare season, he finished off with some great goals and performances in vital games. And for anybody to suggest Alan (open the gates) O’Brien should be in the squad is notion only Stan would consider. The only reason he ever got capped was because a certain Pat Devlin was his agent and on Stans staff.

Vokes

For the Nigeria game would like to see (assuming Doyle won't make it)...

---

Given

---

Foley -- Dunne -- O'Shea -- Kilbane
McGeady - Whelan - Andrews - Duff

---

Folan --- Keane

---

I expect McShane will start tho at RB. and possibly even Keogh upfront instead of Folan.

Mikeyt086

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

No surprise. He's quite simply, not good enough IMO.

That is totally outrageous. If the guy was 28 then, maybe you could judge him. But he is not. He is so young.

Darron Gibson went out on loan at Wolves last season, played great from what i was told and then Fergie told him to stay at United for the year after his exellent pre-season.

He was good in the Carling Cup final. And any time he has come into the United team he has looked comfortable.

He has the ablilty to score from anywhere at any time. Anyone who has watched him in the reserves will have seen his incredible knack for great goals.

He is 23. Give him a chance. He might well grow into the Irish CM spot in the next few years.

Drummerboy2

Vokes wrote: »

For the Nigeria game would like to see (assuming Doyle won't make it)...

---

Given

---

Foley -- Dunne -- O'Shea -- Kilbane
McGeady - Whelan - Andrews - Duff

---

Folan --- Keane

---

I expect McShane will start tho at RB. and possibly even Keogh upfront instead of Folan.

O’Shea won't play as he is playing in CL final on Wednesday

LuckyLloyd

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

I still have high hopes for Keogh. Don't know where previous poster got his information about him having a nightmare season, he finished off with some great goals and performances in vital games.

In the run up to the Southampton game at home he had being getting booed by the Wolves fans, correct? I watched that game in full and he was woeful, looked totally out of sorts.

dogpile

Can't say I've seen enough of Gibson at Man Utd to comment but from his early appearances for Ireland I'd have said send him back to the North....my view slightly changed when he came on against Italy, looked assured and looked like he can play, there's certainly potential there.....needs a move to a decent club to be playing regular 1st team games

Dublin_Gunner

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

That is totally outrageous. If the guy was 28 then, maybe you could judge him. But he is not. He is so young.

Darron Gibson went out on loan at Wolves last season, played great from what i was told and then Fergie told him to stay at United for the year after his exellent pre-season.

He was good in the Carling Cup final. And any time he has come into the United team he has looked comfortable.

He has the ablilty to score from anywhere at any time. Anyone who has watched him in the reserves will have seen his incredible knack for great goals.

If you look at my previous post, I explained my reasons for not believing he's good enough at the moment. I'd be far from criticising a player who's been played out of his depth through no fault of his own.

He is 23. Give him a chance. He might well grow into the Irish CM spot in the next few years.

But to add to your statement - a competitive International is not the breeding ground for a rookie. We need points.

eirebhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

JCos wrote:

You're right. It''s the worst squad we have had since the early 80's

Look again. The squads we were putting out in the early eighties were far superior to this one in terms of talent on paper. They were soft as ****e collectively though - which isn't something you could accuse the below group of being.

I think we've definitely got a better bunch of players to pick from then when Kerr took over.

The only thing Gibson is missing is the confidence to demand possession and dictate a game. He obviously does it for the reserves but seems happy enough to leave it to the others at senior level and keep things as simple as possible. I was impressed with him against Italy though. He looked determined.

I don't expect any changes to the midfield for Nigeria game. McShane will come in at centre half for O'Shea with Foley at right back. Then I think O'Shea will come in for Foley at right back vs Bulgaria. The same defence that Trap started off with until McShane's injury. Up front Folan looks certain to come in for Doyle as the only other change.

Drummerboy2

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In the run up to the Southampton game at home he had being getting booed by the Wolves fans, correct? I watched that game in full and he was woeful, looked totally out of sorts.

Being booed by Wolves fans is no reflection of his form. They are the most cantankerous, fickle fans anywhere in England. A bunch of malcontents.

Stevecw

eirebhoy wrote: »

I think we've definitely got a better bunch of players to pick from then when Kerr took over.

The only thing Gibson is missing is the confidence to demand possession and dictate a game. He obviously does it for the reserves but seems happy enough to leave it to the others at senior level and keep things as simple as possible. I was impressed with him against Italy though. He looked determined.

I don't expect any changes to the midfield for Nigeria game. McShane will come in at centre half for O'Shea with Foley at right back. Then I think O'Shea will come in for Foley at right back vs Bulgaria. The same defence that Trap started off with until McShane's injury. Up front Folan looks certain to come in for Doyle as the only other change.

That is the part that really bothers me, McShane at centre half. I cannot trust him there at all. I'd much prefer Foley start at rb in Bulgaria game too and leave O'Shea & Dunne together.
I really like what i've seen of Foley anytime ive seen Wolves. Give him the 90 mins there v Nigeria, and if he looks solid leave him there for Bulgaria game too.

McShane is way too high a risk at cb for a game as vital as this.

Mr.Nice Guy

There's not much chance of McShane being preferred to O'Shea at centre-back for the Bulgaria game. O'Shea and Dunne have been the defensive partnership all the way through the group and have performed well.

I do think O'Shea will be rested for the Nigeria friendly due to it looking likely he'll be involved in the Champions League final, and McShane will surely fill in at centre-back, but I would be absolutely gobsmacked (and scared out of my wits) if McShane stayed there for the Bulgaria game.

Ideally, Foley will put in a stirring display at right-back against Nigeria which will see him dislodge McShane for the position. Then against Bulgaria we can have a back four of:

Foley

---

O'Shea

---

Dunne

---

Kilbane

I have this awful vision of Martin Petrov running at full pace against McShane in Sofia and absolutely slaughtering the guy. I don't want McShane anywhere near the starting XI.

eirebhoy

When Trap took over McShane and Dunne was his first partnership.

McShane made a critical mistake against Serbia in an otherwise untroubled game and O'Shea was available for the next game against Colombia.

McShane played centre half against Colombia with O'Shea at right back. He our motm along with Kiely.

I'm positive Trap would have stuck with that partnership (we all know by now that he rates McShane) but McShane got injured and O'Shea played the next game and has been there ever since.

Against Italy, Trap obviously felt he needed a change at right back. Instead of bringing Foley on for McShane he swapped McShane and O'Shea around. The defence was much better in the 2nd half.

I can't see Foley starting against Bulgaria no matter how he performs against Bulgaria. Trap will stick with the defence that ended the Italy game. I hope he does because McShane is our best centre half for marking Berbatov imo.

eagle eye

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

That is totally outrageous. If the guy was 28 then, maybe you could judge him. But he is not. He is so young.

Just to further this point, Keith Andrews was playing league two football at 27 years of age. Look at him now and he is 28.

Stevecw

eirebhoy wrote: »

When Trap took over McShane and Dunne was his first partnership.

McShane made a critical mistake against Serbia in an otherwise untroubled game and O'Shea was available for the next game against Colombia.

McShane played centre half against Colombia with O'Shea at right back. He our motm along with Kiely.

I'm positive Trap would have stuck with that partnership (we all know by now that he rates McShane) but McShane got injured and O'Shea played the next game and has been there ever since.

Against Italy, Trap obviously felt he needed a change at right back. Instead of bringing Foley on for McShane he swapped McShane and O'Shea around. The defence was much better in the 2nd half.

I can't see Foley starting against Bulgaria no matter how he performs against Bulgaria. Trap will stick with the defence that ended the Italy game. I hope he does because McShane is our best centre half for marking Berbatov imo.

Not too sure many will agree with you on that. I agree with "Mr Nice Guy" above who says he'd be scared out of his wits with McShane at cb!

I'd love to know why you think McShane of all people would be better than Dunne or O'Shea (who im sure is marking him all the time in training) in handling Berbatov? I just don't see it at all.

Mr.Nice Guy

eirebhoy wrote: »

When Trap took over McShane and Dunne was his first partnership.

McShane made a critical mistake against Serbia in an otherwise untroubled game and O'Shea was available for the next game against Colombia.

McShane played centre half against Colombia with O'Shea at right back. He our motm along with Kiely.

I'm positive Trap would have stuck with that partnership (we all know by now that he rates McShane) but McShane got injured and O'Shea played the next game and has been there ever since.

Against Italy, Trap obviously felt he needed a change at right back. Instead of bringing Foley on for McShane he swapped McShane and O'Shea around. The defence was much better in the 2nd half.

I can't see Foley starting against Bulgaria no matter how he performs against Bulgaria. Trap will stick with the defence that ended the Italy game. I hope he does because McShane is our best centre half for marking Berbatov imo.

The first choice back four hasn't featured McShane. Finnan was preferred at right-back when fit with O'Shea and Dunne in the centre and Kilbane on the left.

This was the back four that started in the opening games in the group against Georgia and Montenegro. When Finnan is fit, McShane doesn't get a look in and you could argue when he came on for Finnan in the opening game against Georgia that he was to blame for the goal conceded. That's my view anyway.

The Italy game was a game where we were playing against ten men and needing a goal so I wouldn't read a whole lot into that particular evening.

Do you honestly think McShane is better qualified to handle Berbatov at centre-half than John O'Shea? I can't understand that and I doubt McShane will play in that role. If he does we are in big trouble.

eirebhoy

Stevecw wrote: »

I'd love to know why you think McShane of all people would be better than Dunne or O'Shea (who im sure is marking him all the time in training) in handling Berbatov? I just don't see it at all.

McShane is a very dominant player. He might struggle when someone runs at him or be fooled by a trick but he loves to play against a physical striker that lacks pace. He was brilliant on his debut against Koller. Won man of the match on his premiership debut against Berbatov. And probably his best for in his time at Sunderland was back to back games against Kevin Davies and Santa Cruz. He played 2 games at centre half for Hull and they kept clean sheets in both games. A rarity for Hull. He was POTY for Brighton in the ultra physical Championship.

Berbatov has some strike rate for Bulgaria and I think McShane can stop him.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The first choice back four hasn't featured McShane. Finnan was preferred at right-back when fit with O'Shea and Dunne in the centre and Kilbane on the left.

If McShane didn't injur himself he would have played against Norway. Of course he would after the clean sheet against Colombia. And then depending on how that went would have played in Mainz.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Do you honestly think McShane is better qualified to handle Berbatov at centre-half than John O'Shea?

Without a shadow of a doubt. O'Shea is definitely not as dominant as McShane and I think O'Shea would let Berbatov get onto a lot more balls than McShane would allow him. That's the thing. Do people say Richard Dunne was at fault for Georgia's goal in Dublin because he didn't win the high ball? I certainly don't hear them. McShane's faults tend to be pretty obvious but he deserves credit for the amount of balls he wins.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

and you could argue when he came on for Finnan in the opening game against Georgia that he was to blame for the goal conceded.

That's ridiculous in fairness. The ball is thrown in by Georgia. Kilbane is marking the guy with the ball. The Georgian is allowed turn and get a low ball into the box. O'Shea is marking the guy that receives it. He plays a quick pass to Kenia who is left free in the box. McShane is over the other side of the goal marking his man. He tries to block the shot as it goes past Given. Zero fault of McShane.

Mr.Nice Guy

eirebhoy wrote: »

McShane is a very dominant player. He might struggle when someone runs at him or be fooled by a trick but he loves to play against a physical striker that lacks pace. He was brilliant on his debut against Koller. Won man of the match on his premiership debut against Berbatov. And probably his best for in his time at Sunderland was back to back games against Kevin Davies and Santa Cruz. He played 2 games at centre half for Hull and they kept clean sheets in both games. A rarity for Hull. He was POTY for Brighton in the ultra physical Championship.

McShane is an accident waiting to happen. His performance against Everton was one of the worst displays by a defender I've seen and I'm sure others would agree. He was absolutely hopeless and has shown a tendency to be error-prone.

At the top level being fooled by a trick as you say can mean all the difference.

This guy who you hype up to the high heavens can't get a game for Sunderland at the minute, a team fighting for its Premiership life and whose defence has been a shambles of late. Says it all about how McShane is regarded.

eirebhoy wrote:

Berbatov has some strike rate for Bulgaria and I think McShane can stop him.

He's not trusted enough to stop John Utaka and you think he can stop Berbatov? He can't even make right-back for Sunderland ahead of Phil Bardsley.

eirebhoy wrote:

If McShane didn't injur himself he would have played against Norway. Of course he would after the clean sheet against Colombia. And then depending on how that went would have played in Mainz.

These are friendly games you are citing. Damien Delaney played against Colombia and he hasn't even made the recent squad. Liam Miller also started that game which shows it was hardly a big compliment to have made that game.

The reality is with Finnan fit McShane doesn't get in the side. You must accept this surely?

eirebhoy wrote:

Without a shadow of a doubt. O'Shea is definitely not as dominant as McShane and I think O'Shea would let Berbatov get onto a lot more balls than McShane would allow him. That's the thing. Do people say Richard Dunne was at fault for Georgia's goal in Dublin because he didn't win the high ball? I certainly don't hear them. McShane's faults tend to be pretty obvious but he deserves credit for the amount of balls he wins.

John O'Shea, a guy who featured in several games in United's clean sheet record run, is not as dominant as Paul McShane, a guy who can't make the Sunderland first-team? You've got to be joking me.

McShane would get more credit if he didn't miss a high ball for every five headers he does win. That's the thing. He's always liekly to have a lapse.

eirebhoy wrote:

That's ridiculous in fairness. The ball is thrown in by Georgia. Kilbane is marking the guy with the ball. The Georgian is allowed turn and get a low ball into the box. O'Shea is marking the guy that receives it. He plays a quick pass to Kenia who is left free in the box. McShane is over the other side of the goal marking his man. He tries to block the shot as it goes past Given. Zero fault of McShane.

Nope don't think it's ridiculous at all. He came on for Finnan with the score at 2-0 and I remember thinking they would get one back. Sure enough they did.

I also recall him being at fault in the Italy game, a game you earlier praised him for. Check out his role in their opening goal at 0:56 where he goes to sleep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeUmvNslboo

As I said before, just one mistake is needed to end our hopes and if anyone's going to provide it, it's McShane.

eirebhoy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

At the top level being fooled by a trick as you say can mean all the difference.

And being beaten to a header can certainly make all the difference too. I could see Berbatov getting the better of O'Shea in a battle. I think McShane would get the better of Berbatov as he has done before.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

He's not trusted enough to stop John Utaka and you think he can stop Berbatov? He can't even make right-back for Sunderland ahead of Phil Bardsley.

1. I wouldn't trust McShane against Utaka (how many times do I have to say that I think he's a terrible right back?). 2. Utaka isn't even in the Nigeria squad and you're talking about someone not trusting McShane against him.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

These are friendly games you are citing. Damien Delaney played against Colombia and he hasn't even made the recent squad. Liam Miller also started that game which shows it was hardly a big compliment to have made that game.

McShane would have played against Norway and depending on that would have played against Georgia imo. That's all I'm saying.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

John O'Shea, a guy who featured in several games in United's clean sheet record run, is not as dominant as Paul McShane, a guy who can't make the Sunderland first-team? You've got to be joking me.

If McShane was as dominant as O'Shea and as error prone as he is now I certainly wouldn't rate him and he wouldn't be playing near the premiership. He's much more dominant than O'Shea.

=Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

McShane would get more credit if he didn't miss a high ball for every five headers he does win.

Completely disagree there. McShane wins the vast majority of headers he goes up for.

Check out his role in their opening goal at 0:56 where he goes to sleep:

You genuinely think McShane was the one going to sleep in that incident? He was at fault for letting the cross in, as any full back is for letting a cross in, but he certainly didn't lose concentration in that incident. He was tracking his man. Brighi. The player playing on the left wing.

LeeroyJones

McShane just isn't good enough. I am impressed with his attitude and work-rate but you can't give caps for just that, he lacks the required talent... I too would like to see Foley given a go at right-back at least against Nigeria and see how he gets on... anyone know whats up with Steve Finnan?

Ekels

Stephen Ward would surely have been a viable option due to his versatility. Stick him in there for left full, no? He starts there for the top side in the Championship. Delaney did well last year against Colombia.

In the middle of the park Owen Garvan, Chris McCann and Keith Fahey offer much more than Miller.
Jay Tabb could have been looked at, as well as James McCarthy.

Up front, Leon Best has come from nowhere. I think he has about 4 league goals to his name for the year. Morrison is surely a better player like. He obviously has no interest in Daryl Murphy.

Ekels

I'm heading to the Nigeria game actually. Happened to be going to London anyway, bought the tickets straight away when I heard it was in Craven Cottage.

eirebhoy

A few comments on Whelan from Stoke fans:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A51745557

Ekels

Regarding Sean Scannell and James McCarthy, two clearly talented players, both well capable of playing at under 19 and in McCarthy's case probably senior level, for their own nations. Why did they claim for Ireland, does anyone know? I know McGeady's circumstances (the clash between playing for Celtic youths and Scotland schools) but I don't understand why either of these guys claimed (similarly, Terry Dixon).
Scannell is of Northern Irish and Jamaican descent and is surely good enough for England under 19s. McCarthy is claiming for Ireland due to a grandfather who was born here. Neither have very direct links with the country. We'll take them though!

Looking further at strikers who are surely more worthy of a place than Leon Best, Stephen Elliott has done okay for Preston.

Also noted there that Billy Clarke was released by Keano at Ipswich. Big call on the kid who has had his chances at Ipswich but never took them. Also from Cork, making the call tougher.

keane2097

eirebhoy wrote: »

And being beaten to a header can certainly make all the difference too. I could see Berbatov getting the better of O'Shea in a battle. I think McShane would get the better of Berbatov as he has done before.


1. I wouldn't trust McShane against Utaka (how many times do I have to say that I think he's a terrible right back?). 2. Utaka isn't even in the Nigeria squad and you're talking about someone not trusting McShane against him.


McShane would have played against Norway and depending on that would have played against Georgia imo. That's all I'm saying.


If McShane was as dominant as O'Shea and as error prone as he is now I certainly wouldn't rate him and he wouldn't be playing near the premiership. He's much more dominant than O'Shea.


Completely disagree there. McShane wins the vast majority of headers he goes up for.


You genuinely think McShane was the one going to sleep in that incident? He was at fault for letting the cross in, as any full back is for letting a cross in, but he certainly didn't lose concentration in that incident. He was tracking his man. Brighi. The player playing on the left wing.

Man you're gas! You've made a series of well-framed, coherent arguments and fair play to you.

The problem is that they're simply based on a reality that only exists in your mind - Paul McShane is a TERRIBLE player.

eirebhoy

keane2097 wrote: »

The problem is that they're simply based on a reality that only exists in your mind

And the mind of Trapattoni. That'll do for me.

population

eirebhoy wrote: »

In midfield Whelan is in brilliant form in the premiership and was motm against Italy.

Sorry I must have missed Whelans motm performance against Italy because as far as I saw only Andy Keogh prevented Whelan from being the worst performer on the pitch.

Poor player who managed to string together a few acceptable performances for Stoke this season, but expect that to be the exception rather than the rule. Tries hard but none the less a poor player

eirebhoy

population wrote: »

Sorry I must have missed Whelans motm performance against Italy because as far as I saw only Andy Keogh prevented Whelan from being the worst performer on the pitch.

I gave Whelan a huge 9/10 for that performance. He controlled that game for us in what I thought was our best passing performance in a long time. I know it was against 10 men but an attacker getting sent off just meant Italy were going to sit back, it didn't make them defend worse or lose their ability to hold onto the ball.

If we gave the ball away a few times that day Italy would have grew in confidence and started to get into the game. We just didn't give them the ball. When they did get it the pressurising of our players forced them into mistakes and giving the ball back to us. If they were able to get the ball off us they would have. They sat back but they certainly would have wanted more than 34% of the ball.

We've all seen teams play against 10 men but can still look dreadful. I came away from the Italy game thinking we actually looked like a decent team. We played the way you'd expect a really good team to play in those circumstances. The passing was short and quick. For me Whelan was the main reason for that. He played 70 passes which was almost 20 more passes than anyone on the pitch and just really impressed me.

Maybe you thought it was a poor performance from Ireland. My brother did. But we're obviously looking for different things.

population

We definatley saw different games

eirebhoy

Well this was my opinion straight after the game.

Whelan: 9 - This fella was brilliant. Long passing, short passing, constantly showing for the ball. He dominated the game for us. Italy going down to 10 men changed them psychologically. It didn't change their ability to defend and Whelan ran the show. He looks really suited to the Italian game.