To grass or not to grass

MonicaBing

oh well , okay wrote: »

The OP's son was the one caught with the joint and seems to be familiar enough with drug culture considering he's visiting head shops and making home made bongs for himself so I doubt he's innocent in the whole episode . He only brought the chap up the road into it once he was caught so I'd be wary of going to the guards on the word of a 14 yr old who's trying to get himself out of trouble . For all we know he blurted out this lads name because he knew he'd been in trouble before and therefore would make a believable villain .

Accusing a 15 yr old boy of drug dealing is a huge step to be taking and I'd want more proof than has been furnished on here to do it.

I'd deal with your son as you see fit then talk to the other chaps mother and see how that goes before taking things any further .

Ok an update for you all, my kid is under extreme house arrest, all priviledges revoked, bedroom door taken down, basically left him with his bed in his room, all PSP, Phone, etc taken from him and i've sold them to my friend for her kid.
He was supposed to go away for a week to Spain with his mates family and ive cancelled that.

I showed him some stuff on the internet regarding use of hash and its long term effects and he's basically laughed at me and told me i'm over reacting, so i'm gonna wait for test results to come back next week and get the doc to help me speak to him. As far as other kids concerned, i happened to bump into her at ATM this morn and asked how she was coping with her guy as its public knowledge the trouble he was in earlier in the year, she nearly cries with relief as to how well he's settling back in at home with her and he's keeping out of trouble??????????????

Zangetsu

As many have said it wouldn't be the best idea getting the gaurds involved. You'll be messing around with the lives of the other kid and especially your own.

Kid gets caught with weed, kid selling weed gets picked up from anonymous tip, 1+1=2 etc etc... Its a silly idea that will cause even more problems for you and your son...

I'm not gonna tell you how to raise your kid but it would be worth putting yourself in his position and sit down and talk with him.

"Ah its just a bit of hash"
"My friends do it"
"Its fun"

MonicaBing wrote: »

I showed him some stuff on the internet regarding use of hash and its long term effects and he's basically laughed at me and told me i'm over reacting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbsBj8NRufw

No offence but I'd laugh too... Do you have any experiance with the drug yourself?

MonicaBing

Zangetsu wrote: »

As many have said it wouldn't be the best idea getting the gaurds involved. You'll be messing around with the lives of the other kid and especially your own.

Kid gets caught with weed, kid selling weed gets picked up from anonymous tip, 1+1=2 etc etc... Its a silly idea that will cause even more problems for you and your son...

I'm not gonna tell you how to raise your kid but it would be worth putting yourself in his position and sit down and talk with him.

"Ah its just a bit of hash"
"My friends do it"
"Its fun"

I'm beginning to think i may not say anything as i've found out that the supplier of the other kid is a well know nasty piece of work pavee from the next estate over and i do not want any trouble from him. He seems to have 9 lives hes' escaped that much trouble from the guards. So if he was to find out i had anything to do with him being pursued? Jesus its like a bad episode of Fair City im living in here. I figure this kids got himself in trouble in the past without me, he'll do it again.

goodmum

ebmma wrote: »

That really means nothing I have family members who did it since that age and still do it on occasion and are fully functional human beings with 3rd level education, jobs and families.

does it prove anything? No. People are just different

One of them happens to be an identical twin. Interstingly enough, the other twin doesn't smoke at all and is (as you describe) a fully functional human being with a 3rd level education, job and family. I think that's proof enough.

the_god_swan

goodmum wrote: »

One of them happens to be an identical twin. Interstingly enough, the other twin doesn't smoke at all and is (as you describe) a fully functional human being with a 3rd level education, job and family. I think that's proof enough.

ha ha... oh wow you really won that argument :rolleyes:
Continue the good fight of the 'war on drugs', tis a fine job your doing... the United States have been raping 2nd world countries since the sixies under that slogan... wow and all they had to do was contact you eh!

same goes for you too hallelujajordan, absolute mindless advice for the OP's situation...

OP i believe your current thoughts on the subject is the wise route to take. Your sons story reminds me of my friends and I as young teenagers, convinced we were only people on the planet that had smoked a joint, knew someone that was 'dealing'.. and although people got involved at different levels no lives were harmed during the learning experience.

goodmum

the_god_swan wrote: »

ha ha... oh wow you really won that argument :rolleyes:
Continue the good fight of the 'war on drugs', tis a fine job your doing...

Funny your reply has such a sarcastic tone. It's the same tone my brother used with me, when I tackled him on his 18year habit.

luckat

Hm.

MonicaBling, your son has told you that another child supplies him; I'm sure you believe your son, but he may not necessarily be telling you the truth.

Your reaction is sensible - he's looking for boundaries, and you're giving them to him.

Of course he won't believe the stuff you show him from the internet, any more than we did in our time as we laughed at Reefer Madness.

But if he'd listen to my own experience, here it is. I was never bothered about dope of any sort, but had various nice, funny, intelligent friends who smoked a lot. Invariably it robbed them of years of their lives - they spent all their time planning a wonderful future, but doing nothing about it. The dope just made them lassitudinous and dull.

And that was the dope of the 1960s. Since then, cannabis has become the most genetically engineered plant on the planet, engineered to make a massive increase in the amount of THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), the component that causes the high.

If you'd like to read about this, Michael Pollan's book Botany of Desire has a fascinating essay about it.

I hope things go well for you and your son and he gets into a sounder way of life, more focused on sensible things like study and sport and work and friendship.

ebmma

goodmum wrote: »

One of them happens to be an identical twin. Interstingly enough, the other twin doesn't smoke at all and is (as you describe) a fully functional human being with a 3rd level education, job and family. I think that's proof enough.

For you maybe. But as a study of effects of hash on people it's pretty feeble, sorry.

hallelujajordan

the_god_swan wrote: »

ha ha... oh wow you really won that argument :rolleyes:
Continue the good fight of the 'war on drugs', tis a fine job your doing... the United States have been raping 2nd world countries since the sixies under that slogan... wow and all they had to do was contact you eh!

same goes for you too hallelujajordan, absolute mindless advice for the OP's situation...

OP i believe your current thoughts on the subject is the wise route to take. Your sons story reminds me of my friends and I as young teenagers, convinced we were only people on the planet that had smoked a joint, knew someone that was 'dealing'.. and although people got involved at different levels no lives were harmed during the learning experience.

The only 'wisdom' in OP's current route is the wisdom of protecting your own ass which I can fully understand. . However, if everyone took this approach we would live in a completely lawless society.

For the record, I have no problem with dope. . . In the greater scheme of things I don't think it is any more harmful than alcohol or tobacco and I would fully support it being legalised. However, I do have a problem with organised crime. . It's only a couple of steps up the chain from the 15 yr old youngfella who is supplying the kids to the thugs who are going around shooting each other but oe cannot operate without the other. .

Also, these guys don't limit themselves to selling hash and its not a huge step from smoking a spliff to snorting a line of coke. .

bullpost

ebmma wrote: »

For you maybe. But as a study of effects of hash on people it's pretty feeble, sorry.

Something a bit more scientific:

Depression

A study following 1600 Australian school-children, aged 14 to 15 for seven years, found that while children who use cannabis regularly have a significantly higher risk of depression, the opposite was not the case - children who already suffered from depression were not more likely than anyone else to use cannabis. However, adolescents who used cannabis daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life.



Schizophrenia

Three major studies followed large numbers of people over several years, and showed that those people who use cannabis have a higher than average risk of developing schizophrenia. If you start smoking it before the age of 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic disorder by the time you are 26. They found no evidence of self-medication. It seemed that, the more cannabis someone used, the more likely they were to develop symptoms.



Why should teenagers be particularly vulnerable to the use of cannabis? No one knows for certain, but it may be something to do with brain development. The brain is still developing in the teenage years – up to the age of around 20, in fact. A massive process of ‘neural pruning’ is going on. This is rather like streamlining a tangled jumble of circuits so they can work more effectively. Any experience, or substance, that affects this process has the potential to produce long-term psychological effects.

Source : http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

di11on

I don't frequent this forum at all, just saw the thread title on the main page and wandered in.

The amount of misinformation, knee-jerk reactionism and downright foolishness that has been posted as "advice" in this thread worries me. Greatly.

Where to start....

di11on wrote: »

The guy is supplying illegal drugs. It's not a minor criminal offence. I don't see why the guards shouldn't be involved and why the guy in question shouldn't be given the fright of his life. Your future gets effected when you sell drugs to other people. That is so society can function properly.

You don't know that. The OP's son has said it, but this doesn't make it true. It is a huge leap from that to start accusing a teenager of being a drug dealer.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Nonsense . . anyone can make an anonymous call and tip the Gardai off .

I've only quoted one of your posts, but i disagree with all of them. The one quoted above is the worst possible path the OP could choose. Think about it for a second.......

* Your son gets expelled for having/smoking grass
* everyone of the kids in the school/neighbourhood are aware of this
* x number of weeks later, the person who sold it to him gets arrested
* everyone of the kids in the school/neighbourhood are aware of this, too
* It's now plainly obvious who was the 'rat' and the minimum (and i do mean minimum) that happens to your son is that he gets ostracised by all his peers, whether they agree with what you did on his behalf or not.
* This other kid then either gives your kid a hiding, or, even worse, passes his name on to whoever he got the grass from in the first place

goodmum wrote: »

I have two close family members who both smoked pot from 15. Both are now in their 30's, still smoking it and are, to coin phrase 'cabbages'. No jobs, no interest in anything and general apathy towards everything and everybody.

This doesn't mean anything. I have 10+ friends in their 30's who have all been smoking for years and are still healthy people in well-paid employment and have more enthusiasm for life than most. How many 'cabbages' or wasters do you know who don't smoke it?

goodmum wrote: »

........I think that's proof enough

Sorry, but you're wrong, it isn't.

goodmum wrote: »

........I'm sure you're doing a great job. The very fact that you came on here looking for help confirms that. I'm sure the 15yr olds mother is looking for help for him, for which she should be ashamed.

What? Is this a typo or just plain hypocrisy?

The OP should be applauded for trying to help her son, but the other kids mother should be ashamed for trying to help hers? Please tell me i'm reading this wrongly.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

its not a huge step from smoking a spliff to snorting a line of coke

More misinformation. It is a huuuuuuuuuuuge step. The OP is worried enough without this kind of scaremongering nagging away at her. You said yourself that you have no problem with dope, does this mean that you have no problem with coke? Without any first hand experience, I find you are underqualified to make the above statement.


OP:
Ignore the other kid and his mother completely. Are you even 100% sure that what your son told you is the truth?Going down that path will only lead to misery for you and your son. You two are the only people you should be concerned about. The last thing you want is the other kids' mother taking you to court for accusing her lil' angel of being a scumbag.

I don't know what or who a pavee is (traveller?), but this other character is obviously bad news. Ignore that aspect, save to tell your kid to stop hanging around with the 'dealer'. He might find this difficult, in fact he might even refuse, but come September he'll hopefully have a new school, new friends and his Jr. Cert on his plate.

Remember: This is not the end of the world. If he was hanging around with the wrong crowd, this might be a blessing in disguise. Hell, it might even be the making of him.

hallelujajordan

First up, as I have been pretty clear; I think the principle of not informing the Gardai that a kid is dealing drugs for fear of the personal consequences is the wrong thing to do and if we were all to behave like that we would live in a completely lawless society. .

Assuming OP is correct and the 15 yr OLD is dealing to lots of kids, he will get caught eventually . . Hell, according to OP he is already known to the Gardai so it won't be unusual if he is picked up. I'm quite sure the Gards can manage the situation discretely. .

Deleted User wrote: »

More misinformation. It is a huuuuuuuuuuuge step. The OP is worried enough without this kind of scaremongering nagging away at her. You said yourself that you have no problem with dope, does this mean that you have no problem with coke? Without any first hand experience, I find you are underqualified to make the above statement.

You have no idea what my experience or my qualifications are !! And no the fact that I equate dope from a medical / scientific perspective with tobacco or alcohol does not mean that I feel the same about coke .. where did I imply that ?

My point has nothing to do with the dangers of dope but rather the fact that because of the laws of the land the primary source of dope in Ireland is organised crime . . the same source that provides coke, ecstasy and whatever else you fancy ! the same source that goes around shooting one another. I believe that it makes a lot of sense to remove the 15 yr old (and anyone else that we can) from this dangerous supply chain.

The last thing you want is the other kids' mother taking you to court for accusing her lil' angel of being a scumbag.

You talk to me about scaremongering ? ? Do you really believe that by going to the Gards and reporting someone she suspects of dealing drugs she is opening herself up to potential litigation . . Nobody advised her to publish her claims on the front page of The Sun y'know.

Zangetsu

Deleted User wrote: »

Think about it for a second.......

* Your son gets expelled for having/smoking grass
* everyone of the kids in the school/neighbourhood are aware of this
* x number of weeks later, the person who sold it to him gets arrested
* everyone of the kids in the school/neighbourhood are aware of this, too
* It's now plainly obvious who was the 'rat' and the minimum (and i do mean minimum) that happens to your son is that he gets ostracised by all his peers, whether they agree with what you did on his behalf or not.
* This other kid then either gives your kid a hiding, or, even worse, passes his name on to whoever he got the grass from in the first place

Just incase you missed it the first/second time hallelujajordan...

Fighting Irish

also be glad he's not doing coke

hallelujajordan

Zangetsu wrote: »

Just incase you missed it the first/second time hallelujajordan...

Thank you but I didn't miss it . . repost it as often as you like and I still will not agree. . Frankly, I think the melodramatic scaremongering is a little bit silly. .

luckat

Anyway. Returning to the question, MonicaBling, may I respectfully suggest that this is something you could get some professional help with?

I'm not really envisaging your son (or his friend, I hope) turning into hopeless, derelict drug fiends. But the life of the dedicated stoner isn't something you'd want for anyone you cared about.

Maybe you should go to your GP and ask for a referral to the excellent counselling services for young people?

ntlbell

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The only 'wisdom' in OP's current route is the wisdom of protecting your own ass which I can fully understand. . However, if everyone took this approach we would live in a completely lawless society.

There's a large group of people paid to in force the law, you might have noticed them in bright colored cars

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Also, these guys don't limit themselves to selling hash and its not a huge step from smoking a spliff to snorting a line of coke. .

This is absolute rubbish, it's the equivalent of saying a cup of tea leads to snorting coke as most coke heads have drank tea...absolute tosh.

goodmum

'This doesn't mean anything. I have 10+ friends in their 30's who have all been smoking for years'

My point exactly. Those who smoke it, or who have 10+ friends who have been smoking it for years, never have a bad word to say about it! The rest of society is wrong. Hash is great, blah blah blah. It's illegal for a reason. It wrecks lives. I've seen it happen in front of my eyes.


What? Is this a typo or just plain hypocrisy?

It was a typo. I meant the other mother didn't care, sorry.

JC 2K3

My name is URL wrote: »

It (weed) is such a widespread issue in Ireland today that it's surprising that parents and teachers don't have a more understanding view of it.

QFT.

The approach should be more "wait until your older" than "drugs are bad, mmk?".

You won't get anywhere by demonising drugs.

hallelujajordan

ntlbell wrote: »

There's a large group of people paid to in force the law, you might have noticed them in bright colored cars

You may also have noticed that the bright cars have a telephone number on the side of them and an encouragement for the general public to provide information that may help the people in the bright coloured cars do their jobs.

This is absolute rubbish, it's the equivalent of saying a cup of tea leads to snorting coke as most coke heads have drank tea...absolute tosh.

No it isn't. . I can buy tea in the supermarket . . However I can buy my dope and coke from my neighbourhood drug dealer.

JC 2K3

IME the same dealers don't sell both weed and coke. They usually stick to one drug.

CiaranC

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No it isn't. . I can buy tea in the supermarket . . However I can buy my dope and coke from my neighbourhood drug dealer.

Because it naturally follows that if something is legal its not harmful...

If you take the "drugs are bad" line with kids, you will get exactly nowhere. Teenagers are not stupid (mostly). If you preach that cannabis is evil and "drug dealers" are the devil incarnate, then they go smoke some they bought of an easygoing childhood friend (who you probably know and think is a nice kid) and have a pleasant time, then they are going to dismiss most of the rest of what you say as nonsense also.

You should certainly educate them as to the harmful effects of cannabis in young people, you cant stress that enough. But its a health issue, not a moral one.

ntlbell

hallelujajordan wrote: »

You may also have noticed that the bright cars have a telephone number on the side of them and an encouragement for the general public to provide information that may help the people in the bright coloured cars do their jobs.

When your son is "attached" to that information and your familiy could be directly affected in making that call you have to weigh up the pros and cons and do as you see fit, if that's calling the number so be it.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No it isn't. . I can buy tea in the supermarket . . However I can buy my dope and coke from my neighbourhood drug dealer.

your point is hash leads to coke that's utter nonsense.

it's the same as tea leads to coke as most coke start out on tea the fact you can buy the tea in a shop is irrelvant.

you can buy cigs legally in shops do most heroin addicts not start off smoke? sigh..

you can buy hash in a shop depending on what country you live in.

do people in holland not move on to coke because they bought the hash in a shop?

that argument doesn't hold any water i'm afraid and it's something that's thrown about "hash is a gateway drug".

nonsense.

hallelujajordan

ntlbell wrote: »

your point is hash leads to coke that's utter nonsense.

it's the same as tea leads to coke as most coke start out on tea the fact you can buy the tea in a shop is irrelvant.

you can buy cigs legally in shops do most heroin addicts not start off smoke? sigh..

you can buy hash in a shop depending on what country you live in.

do people in holland not move on to coke because they bought the hash in a shop?

that argument doesn't hold any water i'm afraid and it's something that's thrown about "hash is a gateway drug".

nonsense.

Actually, that's not my point at all . . I've said already that I have no particular problem with hash and whether or not people move from hash to coke isn't really relevant. .

The point I am making is in response to those who believe it is "no big deal" for a 15 year old to be supplying hash to other kids . . that in somehow it would be unfair to involve the law. .

I think there is a much bigger issue here in that the hash is brought into the country by significant, organised criminals . . the same criminals who provide coke, heroine and whatever else you fancy . . the sam criminals who have been going around shooting each other (and the odd innocent who gets caught in the crossfire). . In this context, I see the 15 year old hash dealer as an important link in a supply chain and a link that is worth removing regardless of how serious or dangerous you consider the drug to be. .

Jenrobbri

I feel for you. It's bad enough having your problem without all the "Holier than thou" idiots you get on this forum.
Leave the kid alone.
It's a bit of weed, most teenagers do it.
Going to the Garda is the worst thing you could do, if your son comes to the attention of the Garda they will never leave him alone.

ntlbell

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Actually, that's not my point at all . . I've said already that I have no particular problem with hash and whether or not people move from hash to coke isn't really relevant. .

The point I am making is in response to those who believe it is "no big deal" for a 15 year old to be supplying hash to other kids . . that in somehow it would be unfair to involve the law. .

Strange I thought you wrote the following

Originally Posted by hallelujajordan
Also, these guys don't limit themselves to selling hash and its not a huge step from smoking a spliff to snorting a line of coke.

hallelujajordan

ntlbell wrote: »

Strange I thought you wrote the following

Originally Posted by hallelujajordan
Also, these guys don't limit themselves to selling hash and its not a huge step from smoking a spliff to snorting a line of coke.

I did write that, but I never made it the fundamental of my argument . . I wrote a lot more about organised crime which you are happy to ignore. . . .


Look, I'm not really interested in debating the dangers of hash or the likelihood of someone moving from hash to more dangerous drugs. . . To me the fundamental issue is more significant. . . OP raised a question about whether or not she should inform the Gardai that a 15 year old aquaintance of her son is dealing hash to lots of other teenagers . . I believe she has an obligation to inform the Gardai for the reasons outlined below . .

hallelujahjordan wrote:

I think there is a much bigger issue here in that the hash is brought into the country by significant, organised criminals . . the same criminals who provide coke, heroine and whatever else you fancy . . the sam criminals who have been going around shooting each other (and the odd innocent who gets caught in the crossfire). . In this context, I see the 15 year old hash dealer as an important link in a supply chain and a link that is worth removing regardless of how serious or dangerous you consider the drug to be. .

seanybiker

dealers dont take it lightly if they find out who grassed on em. If the young fella finds out it was your son it could turn out worse for your son.
Keep an eye on your son and try to make him stay away from the other little fella. Hopefully it will just pass over.

hallelujajordan

Jenrobbri wrote: »

I feel for you. It's bad enough having your problem without all the "Holier than thou" idiots you get on this forum.
Leave the kid alone.
It's a bit of weed, most teenagers do it.
Going to the Garda is the worst thing you could do, if your son comes to the attention of the Garda they will never leave him alone.

The point isn't the "wee bit of weed" . . the point is the criminal structure that provides the weed, the other activities it engages in and the need to dismantle it piece by piece . .

hallelujajordan

seanybiker wrote: »

dealers dont take it lightly if they find out who grassed on em. If the young fella finds out it was your son it could turn out worse for your son.
Keep an eye on your son and try to make him stay away from the other little fella. Hopefully it will just pass over.

Again with the scaremongering . . . Here, how about we all just let these guys do what they want . . . .

move along now, no trouble here !