Smods Thread.

iDontReallyCare

Buy vBulletin and you can see the inner workings for yourself Boston

My question...

Do the new admins now have access to the Admins forum?

:pac:

Gordon

iDontReallyCare wrote: »

Buy vBulletin and you can see the inner workings for yourself Boston

My question...

Do the new admins now have access to the Admins forum?

:pac:

Which one? If you mean the old one that the founders used, we did but we network-braned the option to not have access. So we don't. But we do have access to the Admin forum and use that to talk about trivial stuff like Blue Nun and April Fools pranks.

RoundyMooney

RoundyMooney wrote: »

There's a difference between modding a forum or two and taking on an admin role on one of the biggest (*the* biggest?) sites in the country.

Seamus' post has clarified things somewhat, but I wouldn't like to put individuals wriggling on a pin, as it's not entirely fair.

It's not so much the role or the commitment, as the responsibility.

Theres actually no difference other than scale.
Most mods shape the fora they mod which is a microcosm of what the new admins are doing.

This concept has no adverse impact on the user.

As regards who the new admins are and how they evolved into their current roles-thats a whole non story.
They are doing a job somebody has to do.I've described it like Gordon as no different to what mods do only for scale.
Boards for years has been a model dependent on volunteers who do the job of moderating because they enjoy it.
It's a bit of crack like.

Theres only a small amount of admins needed at present,the candidates evolved out of what they were already doing on the site and of course because they were willing and able and trusted and largely liked.
There are more people on this site willing to do the same and equally qualified thankfully should they be needed.
Long may that continue imho.

The Sweeper

Random wrote: »

What are your motives for devoting so much time to this website as an "equal" to the guys who are (ultimately) gonna make a mint out of it without any of the (financial) reward?

For the last eight years, I have spent a lot of time on boards.ie. I'm pretty much online every day, unless I'm on holidays or somewhere that doesn't have internet access.

I use boards for information and for recreation, for chat and for opinions. In this way, for me, it's like a more interactive Google or Wikipedia. It's a valuable source of information for me and I'd like it to stay that way.

Subsequently it makes sense to me to assist on a voluntary basis in maintaining the integrity of the site. It's also very interesting to me personally to be involved in the "network brane" element of decision making.

And for the record - I don't spend as much time and invest as much effort in this site as the founder admins or the paid staff. The fact that there is now a relatively large number of administrators means I can take time away from screen and leave things for the others to catch - and they can do the same with me.

It's not my responsibility to interact with outside agencies - that's the job of the community managers. When someone outside boards.ie protests how they've been discussed online, while the community managers may ask the network brane for input and opinions, it's ultimately their job to get back to the external person, return phone calls, hold meetings, so on.

The additional permissions I've been given as an administrator make one main difference - I no longer have to wait for a decision, process or action to be taken after I refer something upwards because I can't do it myself.

I am also happy that, if this all gets too much, I can say "Guys, this is taking up too much of my life" and step back with no hard feelings, continue to use the website and be happy that while I had the time and inclination, I could help out.

It's a community. That's what you do in a community.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Beruthiel wrote: »

We are the Borg.

Ha ha ha, that's a good one Beruthiel. It's a good thing there aren't any parallels between the Borg and the Admins, becuase that would be scary
stuff.


Oh wait...



/prepares for assimilation.

5starpool

I'm probably way off the mark here, and apologies if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that RoundyMooney is effectively saying "What's in it for you guys?".

Sully

5starpool wrote: »

I'm probably way off the mark here, and apologies if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that RoundyMooney is effectively saying "What's in it for you guys?".

I think that was answered earlier, nothing new.

RoundyMooney

Nope, not at all 5star:)

Nor am I looking for people to come along and justify themselves.

Nor do I have a problem with all this. In one sense it may even be a positive development, as the active smods (the likes of gordon, seamus, beru etc.) are people with the trust of the whole site.

I assume the OP started this thread because he felt miffed at the lack of communication. I know I did, and do, as per the other thread.

I'll be honest in that I wouldn't take on an admin role, free gratis and for nowt. And not because I'm lazy or workshy etc., but because no matter how altruistic I or someone else may be, there's no way in hell I'd take on an admin responsibility on a site which is in effect, a business entity (note the word responsibility-not workload). Empowerment is one thing, but that's as an employee, not a volunteer.

There are no doubt rewards, something as simple as a PM from someone that you've helped can make your whole day, believe it or not. But there is also a helluva lot of grief. In my experience, that was alleviated somewhat by the constant presence of an admin that contentious stuff could be referred to (at the time, that was Vexorg mainly). You guys may, as I say be empowered as a group, but the buck will also be stopping squarely at your door.

I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing you the best of luck going forward.

sceptre

Random wrote: »

What are your motives for devoting so much time to this website as an "equal" to the guys who are (ultimately) gonna make a mint out of it without any of the (financial) reward?

MAJD said it very well so I'm not going to just repeat her points so I'll be brief (and, unfortunately, very simple simon).

I like boards. I like the people who run it, the people who give their time to helping it tick over and the people that use it. It's a good thing and I like that people who use it also think of it as a good thing. Responsibility is easy. Not ****ing up is hopefully not too hard.

I could do a complicated developed version of the above with comments about guided community-driven communications platforms but what's there is close enough.

RoundyMooney

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Nope, not at all 5star:)

I'll be honest in that I wouldn't take on an admin role, free gratis and for nowt. And not because I'm lazy or workshy etc., but because no matter how altruistic I or someone else may be, there's no way in hell I'd take on an admin responsibility on a site which is in effect, a business entity (note the word responsibility-not workload). Empowerment is one thing, but that's as an employee, not a volunteer.

To be brutally frank with you,I don't believe you at all there.
The under current of your posts here is making me believe you are jealous of the new admins and thats sad.

seamus

Couple of minor things to refer to.

Sully wrote: »

They were given this roll because people were getting pissed at having to wait around for the Admins, who were up the wall, getting around to requests such as forums and mods.

Sully wrote: »

But they have been doing it for donkey years. Its probably been more of a headache for them going back and forth waiting for answers. Now they can actually sort out what needs to be done much easier and its a lot less stressful.

Yes, what we now do is made a whole lot easier that we have the resources to do it. For the last two years or so, the admin(s) have basically being doing what we asked them to because the moderators and the community in turn have been asking us to ask the admins. So why not cut out the middleman?

One other thing which started to become a major headache for me (not sure about the others) was the blurred line. For a long time, we were not the "moderators' moderators", we were simply people with sitewide access who could act in an advisory capacity. However, quite naturally the users and the moderators began to assume that we occupied a higher rung in the ladder and were eventually asking us to make rulings and decisions above the moderator station. Which we didn't actually occupy and we didn't feel comfortable being asked to overrule moderators, since we didn't really have any authority to.
In addition, there was always the, "I want to speak to an admin" defence. This made the Help Desk such an utterly demoralising experience sometimes. That no matter how clear you made it to the user, they could still ignore what you were saying and "demand" to go above your head. Which kind of negates the whole point of giving the Help Desk to the Smods.

Now, that blurred line is gone and the role is whole heap simpler and less stressful.

I'll be honest in that I wouldn't take on an admin role, free gratis and for nowt. And not because I'm lazy or workshy etc., but because no matter how altruistic I or someone else may be, there's no way in hell I'd take on an admin responsibility on a site which is in effect, a business entity (note the word responsibility-not workload). Empowerment is one thing, but that's as an employee, not a volunteer.

The one thing you're missing is that this is not your typical business model. The whole site lives or dies by the moderators. This is not about lining anyone's pockets, it's about keeping the site alive because we love it. If the admins were to turn around and screw all their volunteers over, the volunteers would leave and boards.ie would be boned. Not alone because of the clean-up they do, but the 400 moderators are also incidentally 400 of the most active posters on the site.
If they are to suddenly leave, the site would be in trouble.

The top 300 posters, for example, make up nearly 25% of the posts on the site. They're not all mods, but the majority of them are.

You guys may, as I say be empowered as a group, but the buck will also be stopping squarely at your door.

Great. There's nothing worse than having someone else who has to account for your own actions.

Boston

Sully wrote: »

I cant get my head around why its being made a big deal though

I asked some questions, I got some answers, it was all very straight forward and not a big deal.

iDontReallyCare wrote: »

Buy vBulletin and you can see the inner workings for yourself Boston

My question...

Do the new admins now have access to the Admins forum?

:pac:

Point == missed.

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

For the last eight years, I have spent a lot of time on boards.ie. I'm pretty much online every day, unless I'm on holidays or somewhere that doesn't have internet access.
...

I am also happy that, if this all gets too much, I can say "Guys, this is taking up too much of my life" and step back with no hard feelings, continue to use the website and be happy that while I had the time and inclination, I could help out.

It's a community. That's what you do in a community.

Well Said.

seamus wrote: »

In addition, there was always the, "I want to speak to an admin" defence. This made the Help Desk such an utterly demoralising experience sometimes. That no matter how clear you made it to the user, they could still ignore what you were saying and "demand" to go above your head. Which kind of negates the whole point of giving the Help Desk to the Smods.

Now, that blurred line is gone and the role is whole heap simpler and less stressful.
The one thing you're missing is that this is not your typical business model. The whole site lives or dies by the moderators. This is not about lining anyone's pockets, it's about keeping the site alive because we love it. If the admins were to turn around and screw all their volunteers over, the volunteers would leave and boards.ie would be boned. Not alone because of the clean-up they do, but the 400 moderators are also incidentally 400 of the most active posters on the site.
If they are to suddenly leave, the site would be in trouble.

This is more or less one of the points I was trying to get at. Are you now "watching the watchers" so to speak?

seamus

Boston wrote: »

This is more or less one of the points I was trying to get at. Are you now "watching the watchers" so to speak?

Insofar as the admins have ever previously "watched the watchers". If someone required a demodding or a smackdown, yes that falls under our remit. But then that's been our remit for quite some time now, the only difference previously was that we didn't have the power to demod.

You're seeing the word "network brain" a lot around recently. DeV seemed to have coined that, and it suits perfectly the way that we perceive our actions. We're not a number of individuals given a mandate to act autonomously. We're "arms" of a single entity - this "network brain" - which is consulted when the answer isn't immediately obvious or doesn't require urgent attention.
Most of the usual day-to-day stuff can be done without consulting the group. But the "contentious" stuff you mentioned earlier which previously just had a single admin trying to deal with it, now has the benefit of a group being able to react to these issues and decide how to deal with them, far far quicker than one horrifically overworked admin could possibly ever have.

DeVore

I coined the phrase "network brain" because Seamus has clearly stolen mine and is saying what I'm thinking.

Other then that, yeah... what he said.

DeV.

RoundyMooney

Deleted User wrote: »

To be brutally frank with you,I don't believe you at all there.
The under current of your posts here is making me believe you are jealous of the new admins and thats sad.

Utter bollocks tbh.

If you want to find a stick to beat me, find one with the word "truth" written on it. Take your petty sniping out of what has become a very constructive and informative read.

Seamus (and others), thanks for some thought provoking stuff. It's always constructive to read what others views are. Rest assured that like you I don't see boards as a business at all, however it is always worth remembering that there is a hefty capital stake tied up here now.

In summary, before some other private forum jockey puts words in my mouth, I think that introducing a form of democracy to proceedings is Good. I think the fact that we mere peons were not told about it sooner, is Not Good. I think that committing to such a role (yes people can step down, and more can step up) is Brave. Not on the part of the "founder admins", as let's face it, you couldn't put the place in safer hands then the "new" admins, but brave in regard to those who take on the role.

Those are my opinions, they won't change, nor will anything else. I'm glad this got brought up, and would start it all off again in the morning to generate much needed discussion if I felt it necessary. I don't give two hoots if people think I'm making a big deal of it or not, or if people think I have ulterior motives, or not.

Jealous? Open a window FFS, real life beckons.

I thought you'd deny it alright.
Don't blame me for calling things as I see them though.
I'm not convinced.

Oh and name calling me after one comment probably ever about you [sniping is plural] just proves my case to be honest.

p.s I've been around here a lot longer than you and hey I'm not bitter

RoundyMooney

Newsflash.

Nobody cares :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Utter bollocks tbh.

If you want to find a stick to beat me, find one with the word "truth" written on it. Take your petty sniping out of what has become a very constructive and informative read.

Seamus (and others), thanks for some thought provoking stuff. It's always constructive to read what others views are. Rest assured that like you I don't see boards as a business at all, however it is always worth remembering that there is a hefty capital stake tied up here now.

In summary, before some other private forum jockey puts words in my mouth, I think that introducing a form of democracy to proceedings is Good. I think the fact that we mere peons were not told about it sooner, is Not Good. I think that committing to such a role (yes people can step down, and more can step up) is Brave. Not on the part of the "founder admins", as let's face it, you couldn't put the place in safer hands then the "new" admins, but brave in regard to those who take on the role.

Those are my opinions, they won't change, nor will anything else. I'm glad this got brought up, and would start it all off again in the morning to generate much needed discussion if I felt it necessary. I don't give two hoots if people think I'm making a big deal of it or not, or if people think I have ulterior motives, or not.

Jealous? Open a window FFS, real life beckons.

Hmm, care to expand on these comments posted by you elsewhere on the internet?

I'd be inclined to take your posts on feedback over the past few days with liberal handfuls of salt tbh.

Boston

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmm, care to expand on these comments posted by you elsewhere on the internet?

I'd be inclined to take your posts on feedback over the past few days with liberal handfuls of salt tbh.

Roundy, get the **** out of my thread.

Agent Smith

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmm, care to expand on these comments posted by you elsewhere on the internet?

I'd be inclined to take your posts on feedback over the past few days with liberal handfuls of salt tbh.

:pac:

RoundyMooney

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Newsflash.

Nobody cares :rolleyes:

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time

Abraham Lincoln

Wibbs

So the upshot is a small change in nomenclature and a small change in powers occurred. The latter needed for the site to grow and seamus put it well. This was not announced before it happened. Maybe it needed to be, maybe it didn't. Maybe things like this should be announced ahead of time in the future, depending on how much it actually affects the running of the place and the users. I would be on board with that.

Cool, but now we get to the handbags at dawn guff. If there isn't a circlejerk forum where this can be diverted to, there should be.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Wibbs wrote: »

Cool, but now we get to the handbags at dawn guff. If there isn't a circlejerk forum where this can be diverted to, there should be.

Indeed. Perhaps what this thread needs is a lovely song, to cheer everyone up and to stop all the hootin' and the hollerin'.

Beruthiel

And with that, me thinks this thread is done.

/dances out of thread.