Frank Dunlop - jail or not

VO

Dunlops Lawyers have pleaded for him not to be imprisoned as they claim he has suffered enough.

In my opinion he needs to be made an example of and sent down for at least five years in order put an end once and for all to the bribery and poiltical corruption that has been rampant for so many years now in Ireland.It is the only sentence that will go a long wayto deter future potential bribery.

Dunlop knew well taht what he was doing was illegal and continued to do so because he thought he was above the law. he should be sent to prison along with some of the politicians he bribed.

bmaxi

Why only some of the politicians? I see he is developing "Ernest Saunders syndrome", I'm a sick man, please don't jail me, no doubt to stage a miraculous recovery as soon as the heat's off.
White collar crime is treated far too leniently in the courts, there is no such thing as victimless crime and Dunlop and his accomplices should face the full rigours of the law. Perhaps we should divert some of the Gardaí, currently tormenting the little man for not being able to afford his NCT or car tax, yet still having to get to work to pay for public sector pensions and political f**k ups, to the CAB to go after the real criminals.

Nodin

VO wrote: »

Dunlops Lawyers have pleaded for him not to be imprisoned as they claim he has suffered enough.

In my opinion he needs to be made an example of and sent down for at least five years in order put an end once and for all to the bribery and poiltical corruption that has been rampant for so many years now in Ireland.It is the only sentence that will go a long wayto deter future potential bribery.

Dunlop knew well taht what he was doing was illegal and continued to do so because he thought he was above the law. he should be sent to prison along with some of the politicians he bribed.

The ones he both bribed for and bribed have done relatively little - if any - jail time and have not co-operated with the various inquiries to the extent he has. Therefore it would be unfair to treat him more harshly.

Theres nothing feigned about his illness, IMO. He's a bad heart condition.

r0nanf

I don't see how he has suffered at all, never mind "suffered enough". A bad name is no penalty for his level of corruption. Off to jail with him, and make an example - I fail to see how his bad heart should have anything to do with it.

It's not like he'll be hanging around the yard in the Joy or anything...

SEPT 23 1989

what about the health of those people who had to live in badly designed,zero amenity and congested kips of housing estates?

is he worrying about them?

jail him bad health or not

bijapos

Sparing the rod...............

He will have an easy time of it in prison, have 2 close relatives who work in prisons, thats what they reckon.

He is NOT a social pariah or a social outcast, still does plenty of socialising with his circle from what I heard.

And 7 years max sentence is too lenient for what he did.

Joey the lips

Jail him.... an example is badly needed. Although its funny I always remember being thought in school you were as guilty for accepting stolen goods as you were for stealing. Its just a shame the law does not apply the same context to the people he bribed. The jails would fill fairly quick!

bonzos

Jail for life he should get!The only thing that he has respect for is money...his picture should be on the front page of every newspaper being draged away in handcuffs!

Rebelheart

I think he should be jailed, if more people are jailed along with him.

I've known Frank all my life and he is a good man. He was never the same after his 15 year-old son, Cathal (named after Charlie Haughey), died. He used to be a big cigar smoker and heavy. The cigars went and the weight dropped off him after that. He is a loyal man, and has always been a very generous man. He did not forget people when they were down on their luck, and that stands to him as far as I, and other people, are concerned. I remember as a kid walking down the street and Frank walked across to me just to talk and ask how school was and so forth. At that stage he was at the height of his political power and I was aware of that. He loved people, and he was interested in everybody. He was a showman and a rogue at parties, and he'd love a good fight about politics. Even his (really pompous) accent entertained people as he made a passionate defence of Fianna Fáil-The Republican Party, sort of Martin Mansergh with much more divilment and plámás. All these things must be said in his defence.

The reason he is here today and other people who have committed similar crimes are not is that despite his enormous social intelligence -absolutely amazing - he was foolish enough to admit his crimes outside of the Tribunal. He is basically been prosecuted on a technicality, and you can be sure this is one of the greatest mistakes of his very active life. Very, very importantly, he was cooperating with the Tribunal years before he came out and hung himself by his comments to a journalist.

He has broken the law, and he admits it. That is a mitigating factor. Other significant mitigating factors are that he co-operated extensively with the Tribunal from the day Fergus Flood told him to go back, think about his evidence, and come in tomorrow and start afresh. From that date in April 2000, Frank Dunlop became a social pariah. He became, in informer terms, a supergrass revealing the bribes he paid, and to whom they were paid, on behalf of his clients. He indicted an enormous amount of successful people. Overnight he became a huge threat to a great deal of people. Knowing what some of these people were capable of, and the money they had, brought fears for his safety. Nobody would touch him, nobody could trust him. He lost his client base overnight, and was understandably shunned by practically everybody as a distrustful and unemployable man. He personifies planning corruption of the svengalian variety. He is a crook, he has confessed to it and has co-operated extensively with the state in uncovering fellow criminals. He also has no prior record. I find it highly unlikely that he will be given a custodial sentence.

Personally, I would like to see him and all the people he has bribed jailed. I have no sympathy for any of them. They have destroyed so much of the community space around Dublin and been critical in making atrocious planning decisions. I have nothing but revilement for these people, and the politics which they represent. The Aherns, the Burkes, the Lawlors, the Haugheys and all the rest of them.

To jail Frank Dunlop and not the rest of them, who let us remember were elected public representatives and therefore had a greater duty to us, does not seem right.

Nodin

bonzos wrote: »

Jail for life he should get!The only thing that he has respect for is money...his picture should be on the front page of every newspaper being draged away in handcuffs!

....which would be unjust, as why should the middleman alone bear the full brunt of the law?

getcover

Bit like shooting the messenger, Dunlop was surely just the bagman.

Where there is a "briber", there must be a "bribee".
Dunlop might have paid the money, but those who accepted it did the actual damage, and they deserve jail far more than he does.
I'd prefer if he hanged the lot of them in return for a suspended sentence, because I'd like to see the smirk wiped off the faces of some of those gurriers.
If he could produce some hard evidence against Ahern, I'd be in favour of giving him the Freedom of the City!;)

Darsad

Good Post Rebel but I am surprised you are asking for him to be jailed ! I personally dont see any merit in Jailing him, corruption was rife in Ireland in the 70's 80's and no doubt some of if not a lot of the 90's. It was the society we lived in and the pitch these boys played on he just happened to be the Ronaldo of his era. Whats done is done lets learn from our mistakes and greed and legislate for heavy custodial sentences for anyone caught for similar crimes in the future

bijapos

[I personally dont see any merit in Jailing him, corruption was rife in Ireland in the 70's 80's and no doubt some of if not a lot of the 90's. It was the society we lived in and the pitch these boys played on he just happened to be the Ronaldo of his era. Whats done is done lets learn from our mistakes and greed and legislate for heavy custodial sentences for anyone caught for similar crimes in the future[/quote]


So what are you saying? Let all of them off and anyone involved in corruption from now on gets prison?

Dunlop, call him what you will, "middleman" or "bagman" is the tip of the iceberg, jail him first then the others, he hasn't told 5% of what he knows IMO. If he were to become a supergrass then maybe some form of leniency but only if the whole truth were to come out (which I sincerley doubt).

Sad fact is 10, 30 or 50 years from now we will be still looking at the scars they left on this great country, we let Haughey off and look how we regretted it, we should not make the same mistakes again.

SeanW

Dunlop was the whistle blower and AFAIK he's the only one of that whole bunch that's looking at a jail sentence, except maybe George Redmond?

I haven't really been following it but AFAIK if the developers and politicians he was involved with have all or mostly escaped jail, it would send out a very bad signal IMHO to send him there.

marcsignal

VO wrote: »

Dunlops Lawyers have pleaded for him not to be imprisoned as they claim he has suffered enough.

He hasn't nearly suffered enough. As someone else has already said, we let Haughey away with it, and more recently Sean Fitzpatrick was given a golden handshake for his escapades.

This country is a pressure cooker waiting to blow up. If any more of these white collar criminals avoid getting what they deserve, I couldn't blame the populace for rioting in the streets. It would be completely understandable, in my opinion.

Kintarō Hattori

We're far too lenient in this country, he's in the public eye and so he should go to jail as should anyone else connected with this case who's found guilty.

jmayo

Darsad wrote: »

Good Post Rebel but I am surprised you are asking for him to be jailed ! I personally dont see any merit in Jailing him, corruption was rife in Ireland in the 70's 80's and no doubt some of if not a lot of the 90's. It was the society we lived in and the pitch these boys played on he just happened to be the Ronaldo of his era. Whats done is done lets learn from our mistakes and greed and legislate for heavy custodial sentences for anyone caught for similar crimes in the future

FFS must be a soldier of desentry with a mindset like that ?

So nobody is ever punished for the sh** they have pulled.
Thus they get to walk away with their ill gotten gains, while whole generations have to suffer the social problems and abject planning that they corruptly obtained ?

Have you ever heard that if you break the law you should be punished and prison acting as a detterent ?

Perhaps we should now have a moratorium on muggings for a few years, since after all times are hard and unemployment is rife ?

SeanW wrote: »

Dunlop was the whistle blower and AFAIK he's the only one of that whole bunch that's looking at a jail sentence, except maybe George Redmond?

I haven't really been following it but AFAIK if the developers and politicians he was involved with have all or mostly escaped jail, it would send out a very bad signal IMHO to send him there.

He wasn't exactly the whistle blower you might make him out to be, he didn't voluntarily suddently turn up one day and start talking.
He was already getting grilled for his involvement in a lot of dodgy deals.
Finally he came clean after some prodding.

bijapos wrote: »

Dunlop, call him what you will, "middleman" or "bagman" is the tip of the iceberg, jail him first then the others, he hasn't told 5% of what he knows IMO. If he were to become a supergrass then maybe some form of leniency but only if the whole truth were to come out (which I sincerley doubt).

Sad fact is 10, 30 or 50 years from now we will be still looking at the scars they left on this great country, we let Haughey off and look how we regretted it, we should not make the same mistakes again.

Exactly he spills the beans in return for some leniency.
Instead of 7 years you give him 6 months, but he has to roll over and sing like a canary down a mineshaft.
Either way he shoudl see the inside of a prison even if for just a few months.

Maybe our DPP and Judicary should watch a few episodes of Law & Order to get the idea.

We need to see the developers, politicans and planners get the perp walk.
That way finally we might make these scum that have twisted the planning process to suit their own ends and pockets, all the while consigning thousands to ill thought out ghettos realise that the law and the will of the people catches up to them someday.

How about enacting a law that allows CAB convescation the proceeds of any activities that stemmed form corruptly obtained zoning and planning.
That way they cough off their profits which can be used to help repair some of the damage they have inflicted.

Cool Mo D

He should go to jail, but I'd prefer if he could bring down some some big names in return for leniency - there'd be a lot more justice in seeing ex-ministers and lord mayors in chains.

marcsignal

Cool Mo D wrote: »

He should go to jail, but I'd prefer if he could bring down some some big names in return for leniency - there'd be a lot more justice in seeing ex-ministers and lord mayors in chains.

True, and I'd like to see that too, but leniency like '5 years instead of 7' for Dunlop himself, provided he sings.