Is the cost of living really that high in 2009 ?

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

how on earth have you managed to decide I dont like him or his airline?

I do not care if you do or not, you do not have to fly with him or pay him ! His pay is none of your concern, and is easily found through ryanair plc. It is no big secret. Good luck to him, he deserves it. If you want that pay, there is nothing to stop you setting up and expanding a business as successful. You cannot gripe about his salary because you do not have to pay it. The taxpayers of this country, however, do have to fund the government and their employees. Why mention O'Leary + gripe about his salary ?

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

jimmmy, I think you know well you could have sought a discussion on such matters without mentioning the public sector average gross wage and to pretend that it was anything more than a dig at public sector is a joke

Tell me the average private sector wage so, as any figures produced on same are not to the satisfaction of the public sector people. As some public sector people think the private sector is even paid more than the public sector, is it not unreasonable to use the public sector figure as the basis for the buying power of a weeks wages ? The cso has no other definite figure on a group of 300,000 plus diversified people.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

Tell me the average private sector wage so, as any figures produced on same are not to the satisfaction of the public sector people. ...

Would you settle for the average income (public + private sector combined)? In 2006, it was €45,580 pa. Source: http://www.finfacts.ie/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm

Time taken to find the data: about 40 seconds. You're not very good at doing your own research, jimmmy, are you?

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Would you settle for the average income (public + private sector combined)? In 2006, it was €45,580 pa. Source: http://www.finfacts.ie/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm

Time taken to find the data: about 40 seconds. You're not very good at doing your own research, jimmmy, are you?

That source was produced before and discredited by others. The source says in 2005 it was € 41140, and in 2006 it was 45580, an increase of almost 11% Do you think the average increase workers got between 06 and o05 was 11 % ? Does that figure include overtime ? Getting figures for the whole country and diving them by the population is not a very accurate way of getting statistics. Do not forget the vast amounts some multinationals "launder" through Ireland in order to avail of our very low corporation tax rate ....we are seen as an offshore tax haven by many American companies, for example. Some turn over hundreds of millions and employ a handful of staff. Finally, the figure you refer to is 2006, the peak of the celtic tiger. While public sector pay has increased since, what do you think has happened to many people in the private sector ?

To get back on topic, when else in history could a weeks gross pay packet buy 966 hamburgers, or a round the world flight ? Times are not as bad as you think.

Riskymove

The taxpayers of this country, however, do have to fund the government and their employees.

what's this got to do with the cost of living jimmmy?:rolleyes:

Why mention O'Leary + gripe about his salary

gripe about his salary? where?

making things up again jimmmy?:rolleyes:

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

To get back on topic, when else in history could a weeks gross pay packet buy 966 hamburgers, or a round the world flight ? Times are not as bad as you think.

You think times are not as bad as we think....fair enough...thanks.....close thread please mods

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

That source was produced before and discredited by others.

Where? Was it convincingly discredited?

The source says in 2005 it was € 41140, and in 2006 it was 45580, an increase of almost 11%

That was the sort of level of growth that we were told the Celtic Tiger was yielding.

Do you think the average increase workers got between 06 and o05 was 11 % ? Does that figure include overtime ?

I italicised the word income in the hope you would notice what I was giving you. It's not a wage index. Overtime is part of income, as are interest, profits, etc.

Getting figures for the whole country and diving them by the population is not a very accurate way of getting statistics.

It's a very good way of getting averages. You like averages, don't you?

Do not forget the vast amounts some multinationals "launder" through Ireland in order to avail of our very low corporation tax rate ....we are seen as an offshore tax haven by many American companies, for example. Some turn over hundreds of millions and employ a handful of staff.

From the link referenced: "GNI ... measures the total domestic and foreign value added claimed by residents." [emphasis added.]

Finally, the figure you refer to is 2006, the peak of the celtic tiger. While public sector pay has increased since, what do you think has happened to many people in the private sector ?

Do you remember writing "This is not a public sector bashing thread, heavens no"?

To get back on topic, when else in history could a weeks gross pay packet buy 966 hamburgers, or a round the world flight ? Times are not as bad as you think.

Try to be honest, jimmmy: you are a one-trick pony; if you are not bashing the public sector, you are doing nothing.

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

gripe about his salary? where?

making things up again jimmmy?:rolleyes:

I never made things up, riskymove

It was you who brought up Michael O'Leary + his pay eg you wrote " I (as well as the CSO) have no idea how many people earn what Michael O'Leary does and indeed how much many others in the private sector earns "

I put it to you Mr. OLearys earnings are well documented and open to public scrutiny from Ryanair plc.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

It was you who brought up Michael O'Leary + his pay eg you wrote " I (as well as the CSO) have no idea how many people earn what Michael O'Leary does and indeed how much many others in the private sector earns "

and you reckon thats me "griping" about his salary?

I said I didn't know how many people earned his salary as I did not know what that salary was as such info was not available...now if I am wrong and its available...fair enough...I, unlike others, am big enough to admit so...

...but I maintain I never "griped" about his salary

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

I said I didn't know how many people earned his salary as I did not know what that salary was as such info was not available...now if I am wrong and its available...fair enough...I, unlike others, am big enough to admit so...

...but I maintain I never "griped" about his salary

Why bring up his name so, and query his salary in different posts....eg elsewhere you wrote " how many burgers can Michael O'Leary or a Bank CEO buy on a weeks wages? "


To get back on topic, I think the cost of living has come down in real terms, because people can afford more purchases ( things which were not plentiful decades ago ) now. Not just working people, but unemployed or retired people too. I wonder what the purchasing power of the average retired person is like ? I asked the c.s.o. for average pension in the country but they do not know. Average public sector pension must surely exceed 25k per year if the average salary is 50 k per year....its probably a fair bit higher because the average salary that people are on at retirement age ( upon which pension is based ) is higher than the average salary spread across all age groups, due to promotion, wage increases etc. Average private sector pension is anyones guess, but because of lower income pre retirement, the collapse of investment markets etc it must be pitiful by comparison ( averaged across the 1,800,000 people ). Lets say the average national pension is 15 k per year / 300 euro per week ( income to include old age pension where appropriate, topped up by income from other sources )....this still buys 365 litres of milk per week, 300 mcD burgers per week , etc etc....not a fortune but still good by international and historical comparisons ?

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Why bring up his name so, and query his salary in different posts....eg elsewhere you wrote " how many burgers can Michael O'Leary or a Bank CEO buy on a weeks wages? "

I'll try...once more...to explain why I did...perhaps you might finally get it...

My point was that this thread seems to be about what you could buy if you had €966 a week

I think its pretty pointless and you might as well start a thread asking what could Michael O'Leary buy with a weeks wages....or a Bank CEO....or an unemployed person etc

I believe you started the thread simply to imply that public servants don't really need to worry about cost of living

hopefully thats clear enough!

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Average public sector pension must surely exceed 25k per year if the average salary is 50 k per year....its probably a fair bit higher because the average salary that people are on at retirement age ( upon which pension is based ) is higher than the average salary spread across all age groups, due to promotion, wage increases etc.

SURELY it must be if you say so jimmmy:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

the neck you must have jimmmy to demand stats and evidence from others:rolleyes:

jimmmy

As a taxpayer, I tried to find out from the c.s.o. the average pension in the country but they do not know. As we can do is work from the figures which are available. If you know average pension in this country - public or private or both - perhaps you would enlighten us?

As I said, lets say the average national pension is 15 k per year / 300 euro per week ( income to include old age pension where appropriate, topped up by income from other sources )....this still buys 365 litres of milk per week, 300 mcD burgers per week , etc etc....not a fortune but still good by international and historical comparisons ? Do you think so.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

As a taxpayer, I tried to find out from the c.s.o. the average pension in the country but they do not know. As we can do is work from the figures which are available. If you know average pension in this country - public or private or both - perhaps you would enlighten us?

As I said, lets say the average national pension is 15 k per year / 300 euro per week ( income to include old age pension where appropriate, topped up by income from other sources )....this still buys 365 litres of milk per week, 300 mcD burgers per week , etc etc....not a fortune but still good by international and historical comparisons ? Do you think so.

No jimmmy, I don't know what the average pension is so i wont simply make up a theoretical position in order to have a pointless conversation about how many litres of fecking milk that theoretical amount might buy...

...can you not see the pointlessness of such a discussion?

if your general question is are people better off now than in the past (with regard to the general ability to live comfortably) then I think most would agree we are...people who have small or indeed no salary buy SW could still probably afford to live a comfortable existence....but thats not worries people

what worries people is not being able to afford the house they live in while also not being able to sell due to negative equity..

or that they wont be able to afford a lifestyle like they did up to now...

bonkey

jimmmy wrote: »

I think the cost of living has come down in real terms, because people can afford more purchases ( things which were not plentiful decades ago ) now.

Would it not make more sense to look at hwo cost of living is normally define, particularly by those surveys which claim it has gone up, and then look at whether or not:

a) You agree with the definition
and
b) you agree with the conclusion that it has gone up.

Riskymove

bonkey wrote: »

Would it not make more sense to look at hwo cost of living is normally define, particularly by those surveys which claim it has gone up, and then look at whether or not:

a) You agree with the definition
and
b) you agree with the conclusion that it has gone up.

It would be a far better idea....

but it would be much harder for him to put in comments bashing the public sector about wages, pensions, etc

looking at the Household Budget Survey, CPI etc is the way to discuss changing cost of living

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

if your general question is are people better off now than in the past (with regard to the general ability to live comfortably) then I think most would agree we are
...

Thats decided so.

Riskymove wrote: »

what worries people is not being able to afford the house they live in while also not being able to sell due to negative equity..

or that they wont be able to afford a lifestyle like they did up to now...

Precisely. Indeed many people in the country have had a dramatic reduction in lifestyle due to redundancy .....or being on a 3 day week ....or being self-employed with now little or no income....or being a salesman with little commission....or being a pensioner with a much reduced pension fund due to the collapse in both equity and property markets etc etc. Not everyone in the country has a guaranteed gross income greater than anyone in a similar job in any other country in the world.;)......indeed I am glad you acknowledge there are people worried about not being able to afford the house they live in while also not being able to sell due to negative equity. Thank you.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

... Not everyone in the country has a guaranteed gross income greater than anyone in a similar job in any other country in the world.;)...

Remember writing this, jimmmy?

...This is not a public sector bashing thread, heavens no...

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Thats decided so.


indeed I am glad you acknowledge there are people worried about not being able to afford the house they live in while also not being able to sell due to negative equity. Thank you.

I suppose in the little world of jimmmy...no one in the public sector falls into this category?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

I suppose in the little world of jimmmy...no one in the public sector falls into this category?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I did not mention , exclude or include the public sector in that point or paragraph, specifically because this is not a public sector bashing thread, as highlighted by your comrade PBreathnach !

"Precisely. Indeed many people in the country have had a dramatic reduction in lifestyle due to redundancy .....or being on a 3 day week ....or being self-employed with now little or no income....or being a salesman with little commission....or being a pensioner with a much reduced pension fund due to the collapse in both equity and property markets etc etc. Not everyone in the country has a guaranteed gross income greater than anyone in a similar job in any other country in the world.......indeed I am glad you acknowledge there are people worried about not being able to afford the house they live in while also not being able to sell due to negative equity. Thank you. "

Do get back to the thread topic, do you think this current cost of living relative to income ratio can continue ?

Hasschu

The cost of living for most people relative to their income has increased substantially. Alcohol sales down 13.5% in the first quarter of 09 in Ireland. Whats next, the Pope is reducing his intake of communion wine. Skilled trades down the country are working for 50% of what they were getting in 2007. Hotels are discounting room rates 40 to 60 % and cutting staff time by a similar amount. Unemployment is rising monthly, government tax revenues are declining. The deficit is ballooning, as the government goes to the ECB and the bond market in an attempt to stay afloat. Taxes will increase since the piper must be paid thereby reducing net incomes and further increasing the cost of living. The country is spiraling into poverty as the gov't puts out cost of living and growth figures that bear little resemblance to reality.

jimmmy

Hasschu wrote: »

Skilled trades down the country are working for 50% of what they were getting in 2007. Hotels are discounting room rates 40 to 60 % and cutting staff time by a similar amount. Unemployment is rising monthly, government tax revenues are declining.

Agreed Hasschu, and skilled trades / hotels are not the only ones suffering. I know many self-employed and business people who are struggling and working for nothing after paying their overheads etc. They do not qualify for the dole. Salespeople and people on commission are also affected big time. Not to mention people just retired who have found half ( or more ) their pension / investments have disappeared with the drop in the markets etc.