The biggest underachiever in Premiership history...

kinaldo

I propoes that it is clearly Mark Viduka.

There can be no argument that he is a footballing genius, with more ability in his little toe than many other Premiership footballers could ever hope to possess (Shola Ameobi).

He has a good and consistent strike rate at every club he's been at with the exception of Newcastle, where he's still been our most effective player when fit (and without him our 4-3-3 formation simply just does not work).

I reckon he's easily talented enough to have played for any Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea or Man Utd team. Certainly a better overall player (albeit somewhat less influential) than Cantona.

- brilliant finisher
- great in the air
- amazing first touch and awareness of players around him
- as strong as Drogba, holds the ball up well and brings others into the game
- as clever as Bergkamp
- rarely loses the ball
- doesn't go missing in big games

The only thing he lacks is workrate and pace, yet that can be said of a lot of great players, and he defied the workrate criticism levelled against him last week with his man of the match performance against Boro.

His epic 4 goal haul for Leeds against Liverpool is a perfect example of all of his attributes.

Yet despite all this he's somehow won sweet f-all.

In one word, tragic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4wYEhoW9cc

Super-Rush

Without a shadow of a doubt it has to be Matt Le Tisser. Southamptons top scorer for what seemed like every single season. Great touch, wonderful passing ability, probably the greatest scorer (quality & amount) of long range goals ever and the way he set up some of his goals were amazing. He stayed at The Dell for his entire carreer without a trophy and only won a handful of England caps. He did have his down sides most notably being one of the laziest players i have ever seen.

Enjoy

Johnny Utah

LOL, are you serious? Comparing Viduka to the likes of Cantona, Bergkamp and Drogba. You're wrong kinaldo, very wrong. Viduka is an alright striker for a mid-table team (Leeds, Boro, Newcastle etc), not the top 4, and he's coming to the end of his career now. Most players find their right level anyway.

Joey Barton could have been really good if he was more focused and wasnt more a scumbag,had/has a lot of talent.

Dont know about the top but hes worth a mention imo.

Bubs101

Veron

Lock thread

Mr.Nice Guy

Shay Given.

I win. :cool:

hussey

Alan Shearer

kinaldo

Johnny Utah wrote: »

LOL, are you serious? Comparing Viduka to the likes of Cantona, Bergkamp and Drogba. You're wrong kinaldo, very wrong. Viduka is an alright striker for a mid-table team (Leeds, Boro, Newcastle etc), not the top 4, and he's coming to the end of his career now. Most players find their right level anyway.

Yes I am comparing him to those players, because he has all of their attributes. On pure talent, he can match almost anyone. That's what is so vexing.

Anelka for example is playing for Chelsea and has also played for Arsenal, Pool and Madrid, with mixed results. He's certainly a very different player, and an effective one, but not a better footballer than Viduka, no way. Neither was Cantona.

That Viduka didn't find his level is what I find so tragic, although Leeds did sign him when they were amongst the top 4.

I should also say that he certainly hasn't done enough at Newcastle to justify his wages or a new contract. Sadly he's now become far too injury prone.

However, I will be sad to see him leave because he's simply great to watch.

kinaldo

hussey wrote: »

Alan Shearer

Hardly. Almost single-handedly won the Premiership for Blackburn up against Ferguson's Manchester United, as well as numerous golden boots and player of the year awards. All fantastic achivements.

Viduka has far more footballing ability than Shearer had, but perhaps Shearer had the will and determination.

Bubs101

kinaldo wrote: »

Yes I am comparing him to those players, because he has all of their attributes. On pure talent, he can match almost anyone. That's what is so vexing.

Anelka for example is playing for Chelsea and has also played for Arsenal, Pool and Madrid, with mixed results. He's certainly a very different player, and an effective one, but not a better footballer than Viduka, no way.

Viduka is nowhere near as good as Anelka. SPL and midtable were his levels

kinaldo

Bubs101 wrote: »

Viduka is nowhere near as good as Anelka. SPL and midtable were his levels

I'm not going to repeat my arguments, but Viduka at his best is as good as anyone. Liverpool can attest to that.

newballsplease

yea Viduka has scored loads in the past few years...:rolleyes:


the op is crazy! theres no way he is up in the same category as bergkamp/cantona

yerayeah

Le Tiss seems a much better shout than Viduka alright. He was a bit before my time but I remember watching a MotD video when I was a youngun and just being in awe at the goals he was scoring!!

imo saying the words Viduka and Cantona/Bergkamp in the same breath is blasphemy...

kinaldo

newballsplease wrote: »

yea Viduka has scored loads in the past few years...:rolleyes:


the op is crazy! theres no way he is up in the same category as bergkamp/cantona

I'm not talking about the last few years, I'm talking about since the beginning of the Premiership.

And anyway, the season before last, with Boro, he scored well over 20 goals. Since then he's been mostly injured, and as I've already said, has still been Newcastle's most effective player (when fit).

Way to miss the point.

hussey

kinaldo wrote: »

Hardly. Almost single-handedly won the Premiership for Blackburn up against Ferguson's Manchester United, as well as numerous golden boots and player of the year awards. All fantastic achivements.

Viduka has far more footballing ability than Shearer had, but perhaps Shearer had the will and determination.

He was an unbelievable player - and I believe he should have won more than one medal

kinaldo

yerayeah wrote: »

imo saying the words Viduka and Cantona/Bergkamp in the same breath is blasphemy...

Cantona is one of the most overrated players ever. Even the odd Man Utd fan will now admit this.

Bergkamp was world class, sure. So is Viduka.

Anelka has spent most of his career floating around at clubs like Bolton, Man City, PSG and Fenerbache. Failed in Madrid, average at best at Liverpool.

Chelsea gambled on him though, and he's done well.

God knows why Viduka went to Boro when he did, but had he gone to a big club like Anelka did I'm sure he'd have done just as well if not better.

newballsplease

Viduka is NOT 'world class'

Frankie Lee

What the OP is trying to say is that he had the attributes to be a top top player, but he underachieved.

Highsider

Harry Kewell

Tony EH

super-rush wrote: »

Without a shadow of a doubt it has to be Matt Le Tisser. Southamptons top scorer for what seemed like every single season. Great touch, wonderful passing ability, probably the greatest scorer (quality & amount) of long range goals ever and the way he set up some of his goals were amazing. He stayed at The Dell for his entire carreer without a trophy and only won a handful of England caps. He did have his down sides most notably being one of the laziest players i have ever seen.

I wouldn't call Tiss lazy as such. I think, like all strikers, he had periods when the ball just wasn't near him. A fault with the support, more than anything else.

Also, didn't he stay with the Saints because he loved the club? I think he had plenty of chances to move away if he wished.

Frisbee

kinaldo wrote: »

Certainly a better overall player (albeit somewhat less influential) than Cantona.

- as strong as Drogba,

- as clever as Bergkamp

tomred1

Tony EH wrote: »

I wouldn't call Tiss lazy as such. I think, like all strikers, he had periods when the ball just wasn't near him. A fault with the support, more than anything else.

Also, didn't he stay with the Saints because he loved the club? I think he had plenty of chances to move away if he wished.

Isn't Le tisser known as one of the lazist players ever.He would never train at Southpamton and thats why he didn't get many England caps and why he never went to a bigger club.

Boggles

tomred1 wrote: »

Isn't Le tisser known as one of the lazist players ever.

He was lazy, but when he can shoot and score from 40-50 yards it more than made up for it.

tomred1 wrote: »

He would never train at Southpamton and thats why he didn't get many England caps and why he never went to a bigger club.

I don't know about this but I would like to put it down to Loyalty and not greed for not moving clubs, also Hoddle was responsible for him not getting more England caps when he was arguable at his peak.

He should have been picked solely for his penos 47/48 is some record. :eek:

2nd Goal is one of my favs of all time.

3rd one is from the same match.

PiE

Frankie Lee wrote: »

What the OP is trying to say is that he had the attributes to be a top top player, but he underachieved.

That's my take on it too. The "lolz r u serious?!?" replies are frankly embarassing.

Personally I think he's right - Viduka could have done a job for any of the top 4 at various stages over the last few years but it seemed to be his mentality that let him down.

Mr Alan

if Liverpool were skint i'd take him as back up tbh.

ShooterSF

My first thought was Le Tiss. Looking at that clip have the keepers improved in the league or when them long range shots really unstoppable?

Daysha

What defines underachiever anyway? Are we talking about top, top players that just spend their lives playing for mid table clubs and never won anything?

If that's the case, then it has to be Le Tissier. But to say that Viduka is a better player than Cantona and just as clever as Bergkamp is bordering on insanity.

Boggles

ShooterSF wrote: »

My first thought was Le Tiss. Looking at that clip have the keepers improved in the league or when them long range shots really unstoppable?

2 of the goals are against the Great Dane and Flowers, 2 of the best keepers I have ever seen.

Mr Alan

Viduka is better than Cantona.

Not Bergkamp though. Hell no.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Viduka is better than Cantona.

Consistently Hilarious Alan.

What is this Vidukas 3rd relegation scrap?

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

Viduka is better than Cantona.

lolz

hussey

Mr Alan wrote: »

Viduka is better than Cantona.

You would seriously rather Mark Viduka in your Team than Eric Cantona?

Boggles

Alan was 8 when Cantona was plying his trade, children get confused sometimes. :pac:

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

Viduka is better than Cantona.

Not Bergkamp though. Hell no.

fishing

bullpost

PiE wrote: »

That's my take on it too. The "lolz r u serious?!?" replies are frankly embarassing.

Personally I think he's right - Viduka could have done a job for any of the top 4 at various stages over the last few years but it seemed to be his mentality that let him down.

Mentality is so vital that without it you cannot be compared to any of the achievers mentioned. Roy Keane is the most shining example of this.

Mr Alan

not fishing.

most non-utd fans see Cantona for what he was, important signing for Utds success, but among the most over-rated players ever to play in England.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

not fishing.

most non-utd fans see Cantona for what he was, important signing for Utds success, but among the most over-rated players ever to play in England.

So you are saying he is over rated because of Man Uniteds success but by your own admition he was key to that success?

I'm very confused Alan, could you explain a bit more, I'm intrigued.

Mr Alan

no problem boggles.

I'm saying he is over-rated by Utd fans.

he was a key signing for Utd at a very important time. similar to the carrick signing being vital to Utds success in the last couple of years.....however Michael Carrick is not one of the best ever players in the PL. And nor is Cantona.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

no problem boggles.

I'm saying he is over-rated by Utd fans.

he was a key signing for Utd at a very important time. similar to the carrick signing being vital to Utds success in the last couple of years.....however Michael Carrick is not one of the best ever players in the PL. And nor is Cantona.

Ah but Alan, there is a difference, Cantona was the catalyst to Uniteds success.

Honest question, how many games would you have seen Cantona play given you were quite young when he was about?

Also lets just deal with this

Viduka is better than Cantona

How do you quantify this?

eZe^

Cantona was good, but imo was the most overrated player ever to live, the amount of people who put him up with Cryuff, Maradonna, Pele, Zidane, Maldini, Ronaldo is kinda ridiculous. Although most of them are Utd fans... Still better than Viduka though...

astrofool

It sounds like Mr. Cantona caused a lot of childhood trauma in the Alan's house.

Viduka was wanted by Utd a few seasons ago (possibly the season before they got Smith), I think he would have been a great signing for them, however, I'm not sure about biggest underachiever (i'd disregard Le Tiss as he never moved club, which was vital if he wanted to achieve more, small pond and all that).

Newcastle as a team underachieved for a good portion of the 90's, as said, Shay Given could probably have given a top 4 team that extra dimension needed to win more trophies. Stevie G has definitely underachieved so far, as has Torres (at least they'll get the chances to put that right).

Boggles

eZe^ wrote: »

the amount of people who put him up with Cryuff, Maradonna, Pele, Zidane, Maldini, Ronaldo is kinda ridiculous.

Agreed, who are these people that said that to you?

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

Agreed, who are these people that said that to you?

Most of the my mates who are Utd supporters, I think it's because they were in their formative idol searching years when he was performing in cocky manner, so kids instantly loved him. Kind of how C. Ronaldo will probably go down as one of the greats in 10 years time.

Boggles

eZe^ wrote: »

Most of the my mates who are Utd supporters, I think it's because they were in their formative idol searching years when he was performing in cocky manner, so kids instantly loved him. Kind of how C. Ronaldo will probably go down as one of the greats in 10 years time.

The same could be said about Zidane,etc in fairness.

All talented players. But all over rated.

redzerdrog

astrofool wrote: »

Stevie G has definitely underachieved so far

are you on drugs?

1 champions league
2 FA cups
2 leauge cups
2 charity shield;)
1 uefa cup
2 uefa super cups

not to mention the other personal awards

you think he underachevied:rolleyes:

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

The same could be said about Zidane,etc in fairness.

All talented players. But all over rated.

Zidane was on a different planet to Cantona to be fair.

redzerdrog

eZe^ wrote: »

Most of the my mates who are Utd supporters, I think it's because they were in their formative idol searching years when he was performing in cocky manner, so kids instantly loved him. Kind of how C. Ronaldo will probably go down as one of the greats in 10 years time.

only thing is ronaldo is a far far far far better player than cantona was

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Honest question, how many games would you have seen Cantona play given you were quite young when he was about?

I honestly don't know. I'm 24 years of age. I've always watched football as long as i can remeber with varying degrees of interest at various points in my life. I saw & remember a lot of Cantona.

Does my age stop me rating players like Best, Dalglish, Charlton, Neal despite never having watched them in my life? Or is that allowed? its a silly can of worms to open Boggles especially when you take into account that a lot of Itd fans who will tell you of the wonders of Cantona are a similar age to myself.

Lets just accept that i hold a view a lot of people (non Utd fans) agree with, but one you disagree with, and leave it at that.

Boggles wrote: »

Also lets just deal with this



How do you quantify this?

Ok, lets say they are both on equal footing, both excellent players with a lot of natural ability who are just below what is required to be regarded as genuinely world class. that better?

Boggles

eZe^ wrote: »

Zidane was on a different planet to Cantona to be fair.

I don't think a different planet, both were exceptionally gifted, personally I think Zidane was more natural.

But both are over rated, but both are still better than Viduka. :pac:

corcaigh07

back on topic, id suggest Diouf, he had an unreal world cup, started well for liverpool but then just threw it away by acting like a muppet and more interested living the "gangsta" lifestyle.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

I honestly don't know. I'm 24 years of age. I've always watched football as long as i can remeber with varying degrees of interest at various points in my life. I saw & remember a lot of Cantona.

Does my age stop me rating players like Best, Dalglish, Charlton, Neal despite never having watched them in my life? Or is that allowed? its a silly can of worms to open Boggles especially when you take into account that a lot of Itd fans who will tell you of the wonders of Cantona are a similar age to myself.

Lets just accept that i hold a view a lot of people (non Utd fans) agree with, but one you disagree with, and leave it at that.



Ok, lets say they are both on equal footing, both excellent players with a lot of natural ability who are just below what is required to be regarded as genuinely world class. that better?

Not opening a can of worms Alan, and I'm not discusing anyones opinion but yours, it was an honest question how you were quantifing Viduka better than Cantona?

Question still stands by the way.