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Childcare Abuse Inquiry Results

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,193 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    For the majority of sexual abuse there were no witnesses, or if there were then they were also abused, and probably obtained money for their testimony when the matter was being investigated.
    Most of these crimes happened over 30 years ago, so memories are hazy, dates get mixed up etc. Any half-assed solicitor could rip that evidence to shreds.

    As been said they are still prosecuting Nazi's 70 years on.
    Does anyone know if the Statute of Limitations applies to these crimes?
    That might be another reason.

    There is no Statute of Limitation for murder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,700 ✭✭✭✭holly1


    It does not matter what age they are now,they are still responsible for their dark dark deeds,seek them out and jail them.They were not always old.
    So many lives ruined and ended because of these sickos!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Liber8or


    To be perfectly honest, if nothing is done to even attempt to bring these perpetrators to justice then the whole report was a farce. Furthermore, it is a prime example of how to not manage a travesty in society.

    Two big problems have hit this country in 2009;
    1 - The Banking Crisis.
    2 - Child Abuse Report.

    One of which, we have control to change, the other we can not. And right now, this report appears to have been more disasterous to this nation.

    Not only have we failed to seek justice for the thousands of victims, we have gone and ratified our ignorance and incompetence to the World by keeping these abusers anonymous and unpunishiable.
    Seems to me, that if you establish an institution and commit sexual/physical abuse as a collective group, you get off scot-free, because it is too far reaching and wide to fully analyse and persecute.

    There were millions of soldiers in the German Army, many of whom were stationed in the Death Camps and they can be brought to justice. Much more far reaching and harder to track down, considering the time frame, this country could do it as well. But, we don't, probably costs too much money...


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,193 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The Abuse report cost 61 million, they would have been better off giving it to the victims, not worth the paper it's written on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    I'm not sure if this is old news, but talk about adding insult (upon insult, upon insult..) to injury:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0521/abuse.html
    When asked about the contents of the report from the Child Abuse Commission, he described it as distressing and disturbing but said it had taken courage for members of the clergy to face up to the facts in their past.

    He said that the report should not overshadow all of the good that these clergy members had also done.

    This is the incoming leader of the Catholic church in England and Wales.

    Is it me or is this not simply an echo of the exact same self-service and self-protection and attitude that these reports outlined in the first place?

    It's disgusting. He should be removed immediately from his position if the Church does indeed take this matter seriously.

    To draw comparison with another recent Church 'issue', holocaust denial, the Pope forced a returning member of the clergy to recant his views on the holocaust.

    Yet here with THEIR OWN SCANDAL, their own abuse and torture of children in this country, we have senior members of the clergy saying that the perpetrators were courageous for cooperating with the investigation, and that their abuses should not overshadow their work elsewhere.

    Could you imagine if someone in his position said the same thing about Nazi guards?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    See previous page :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,193 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    LookingFor wrote: »
    Yet here with THEIR OWN SCANDAL, their own abuse and torture of children in this country, we have senior members of the clergy saying that the perpetrators were courageous for cooperating with the investigation, and that their abuses should not overshadow their work elsewhere.

    Tis like a very bad Father Ted episode.

    "Yes he repeatedly anally raped a dozen children, but ahh he said a lovely mass"

    I know I am being smart, but it's actually not that far from what was said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    Boggles wrote: »
    Tis like a very bad Father Ted episode.

    "Yes he repeatedly anally raped a dozen children, but ahh he said a lovely mass"

    I know I am being smart, but it's actually not that far from what was said.

    It is pretty much exactly what he's saying.

    I don't think people should just let this slip past. This should be causing at least as much outrage as holocaust denying bishops do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Liber8or


    Boggles wrote: »
    Tis like a very bad Father Ted episode.

    "Yes he repeatedly anally raped a dozen children, but ahh he said a lovely mass"

    I know I am being smart, but it's actually not that far from what was said.

    I agree and you shouldn't be surprised by the reaction of the Catholic Church or the government.

    This country continually refuses to ask questions about things in this country. Everything seems to have a stigmatisation attached to it.

    In North Kildare, there have been four suicides in the last 2 months by girls aged less than 15, one as young as 12. We don't hear about this on the radio or T.V, suicide is bad. Suicide puts you in hell, the Church doesn't want us hearing about such blasphemous acts.
    We ignored the abuse for decades within the Schools and Christian Brothers etc.
    We ignored questions about why Ireland was the new Celtic Tiger, why could such a small country like this have access to so much money? Is anyone checking up on those who give out the money?

    And the answer? Don't turn on the lights, roam around in the dark until something goes wrong and when it does, THEN we will deal with it.

    Ofcourse people will say things like, oh well the government is to blame, they are the ones in charge. Ram it - I say. The onus of responsibility falls on each other.

    Those people who knew things were going on, did nothing.
    People want to ignore the thoughts of suicide and assume the people around them are happy etc.
    Those people all drive massive 4x4 tanks on the roads, getting further and further into debt.

    But when the happy act all comes crashing down on the proverbial stage, thats when people look for others to blame. So when this country wakes up and realises that we are all at fault, then we can hunt down those who bare more responsibility.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    far be it from me to be reactionary.

    but we should get liam neeson (in his role from taken) after them.

    he will find them.
    he will kill them.

    that would be awesome.


    but on a kinda more serious note... this is a very very dark day for our country.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Barry Andrews (some functionary junior Minister) sounded positively supine in the rte lunchtime news. Wrong tone, wrong words.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    There are a number of points I would like to comment on regarding this report and indeed our fine state.

    The way this report's publication was handled is the final slap in the face to the victims from the state.
    Why were victims, victim representative groups barred from the presentation of this report to the public yesterday ?
    Who was responsible for that decision ?
    Yet another faceless person I bet.

    This report is yet another excercise in fact finding with yet again nobody ever being held responsible.
    Why aren't the perpetrators named, the department of education officals who were informed of abuses named, the dept officals who were responsible for overseeing the schools and institutions named ?
    Nobody of course in little old Ireland is ever responsible.
    This country is doomed to repeating it's crimes as long as that is the mentality.

    We Irish are fond of spouting how we are not responsible for any evil perpetrated in the world, unlike some other nations, but this report just highlights how bad our society was that we allowed the weak, the innocent, the young be so badly ill treated not just by our supposed moral guardians - the church, but by the apparatus of the state itself.

    As for the church they should immediately come out and state they are going to contribute more than the pitance amount of 135 million to the fund for the victims.
    If they don't, then the over generous agreement reached by one Michael Woods should be immediately torn up.
    The state also has a liability in this and it should not be seen as passing the buck.
    Also the church should immediately disband what is left of that dispicable organisation, the christian brothers, and all their assets stripped.

    For the future the worrying thing is that the state are still passing the buck in relation to child care.
    If they hire and pay the salary of teachers, then they are responsible for them.

    The church needs to be removed from having an input into childcare.
    Looking at this report, and the report into the Wexford social services case, the state aren't any better at it.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    Here's what I'd like to see happen - the Irish government to seek massive, and I mean, billions, of compensation from the Vatican. The Vatican has plenty of riches, both earned, and "archived".
    This money is then used to fund the school system while the church is entirely removed.

    Secondly, all church lands in Ireland are seized by the government. Active churches can remain, but they pay a lease hold every year.

    Thirdly, a fully secular state.

    Finally, for those moron apologists out there that still believe that the catholic church in Ireland represent God, to finally cop on and stop going to mass.

    Hmm, I wonder if there will be pickets outside churches over this...?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    Somebody needs to charge the Irish Catholic Church with crimes against humanity.

    Had a look through the report , and it is stomach wrenching.

    And then to compound matters , it turns out that us taxpayers are going to a liable for future damages. 120 mill ceiling for the ****ers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Vatian city would say to the government if you had done your job then the abuse would have been curtailed much sooner...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    Vatican City KNOWINGLY moved KNOWN paedophiles from one parish to another, instead of turning them in to the law and de-frocking them, as they should have. That's gross negligence at the very least and they should be made to pay.

    Also, any reports of abuse to the police/government that were not investigate/followed up/pushed under the carpet should also be reopened, with the offenders and anyone else complicit (i.e. any other Guard/etc. who knew of abuse but failed to report it) should also be punished. THat one would be harder to prove though, unfortunately for the victims.

    Oh yeah, and thank Bertie Ahern for the church only having to pay €120 million while we foot the rest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    mike65 wrote: »
    Vatian city would say to the government if you had done your job then the abuse would have been curtailed much sooner...

    so explain to me why the current Pope was up to his neck in covering up for padeos in the Church?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭futurehope


    VICAR OF CHRIST - papal title - The Pope

    VICAR - "one who acts in place of"

    ANTIchrist - "in place of CHRIST" (Greek translation)

    ANTICHRIST - "vicar of Christ"


    Pope = ANTICHRIST


    Suffer Little Children...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    gotta stop reading the report... i'm getting SERIOUSLY angry...

    i wasnt abused , and i didnt go to one of those schools - but my parents know folks who did.

    getting flashbacks from my childhood (1970s) though - about how nearly everyone had phrases about priests like "he's a bit funny, make sure you keep away from him"


    a bit "funny"... e.g. a f**king paedo abuser...


    christ. we lived in something like the Islamic Republic of F**king Iran...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    futurehope wrote: »
    VICAR OF CHRIST - papal title - The Pope

    VICAR - "one who acts in place of"

    ANTIchrist - "in place of CHRIST" (Greek translation)

    ANTICHRIST - "vicar of Christ"


    Pope = ANTICHRIST


    Suffer Little Children...


    and remember how we all laughed at Ian Paisley when he called the Pope that in the EU Parliament a few years ago?



    WE'RE NOT LAUGHING NOW ARE WE?????


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    Whatever about the ordinary decent clerics in the RC church - the ones in authority knew about this abuse, sanctioned it, covered it up and now when the proverbial hits the fan they give lame excuses.

    The church thinks it's above the law and can act in the most despicable way imaginable and get away with it.

    Here in Ireland we have the tradition started with good auld Captain Boycott. The RC church in all it's forms needs to be boycotted until the church steps forward and not only admits it's failings - it has to pay the price for it's failures.

    Riv


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭Jesus1222


    netron wrote: »
    and remember how we all laughed at Ian Paisley when he called the Pope that in the EU Parliament a few years ago?



    WE'RE NOT LAUGHING NOW ARE WE?????

    On a less sensationalist note: I find it more than a bit ironic that today, Big Ian, the man from my childhood that everybody loved to hate, is a man whose opinions on the nature of the Roman Catholic Church I generally share.


  • Registered Users Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Can'tseeme


    Christ/Anti-christ. It's backward and outdated, like all other religions and institutions like monarchies. Society needs to move on from these corrupted, unfair, eliste organisations. They are from an old, by gone era.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    RiverWilde wrote: »
    Here in Ireland we have the tradition started with good auld Captain Boycott. The RC church in all it's forms needs to be boycotted until the church steps forward and not only admits it's failings - it has to pay the price for it's failures.

    Riv

    Would anyone notice? The Catholic Church is dying in Ireland as it stands, and it's just old biddies and people with weddings coming up that go to mass nowadays. Give it 60 years and it'll be gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    as a tax payer would it be possible for me to take the government to court to not spend my money to get the church off the hook? after all it is my money i work for... i dont want it used to help a bunch of paedophiles.

    serious question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭futurehope


    Catholicism has had it's foot on The Irish neck for far too long. There is, off course, abuse everywhere, in every organisation, every church - no doubt about it. Power and the protection of power allows these things to fester and go unpunished. But Catholicism takes it to a higher level. Individual priests must not be exposed for fear of embarrassing 'HOLY' Mother Church.

    You see, Catholics on the whole have a very different relationship with their priest to that which Protestants have with their minister. Only a Priest can celebrate mass, without which The Catholic can't find salvation. A Protestant minister has no such spiritual power. If a Protestant doesn't like something about his church he can leave and start a new one - plenty have down the years. If his previous pastor says he'll burn in hell, he'll laugh in his face. Where does a Catholic go?

    Unfortunately, this universal problem with Catholicism has been compounded in Ireland, where a corrupt and symbiotic relationship was allowed to develop from before independence between The 'Church' and Nationalist politicians:

    "We'll bury your Fenian murderers, if you ignore the cries of your own children"

    "Look North and East Irishmen. The monstrous 'Orange Statelet' and the cruel 'British Empire'"

    How stupid it all seems now eh?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    Ah Wikipedia, is there anything you don't know?)
    :eek:
    originally posted by super_furry
    The Catholic Church is dying in Ireland as it stands, and it's just old biddies and people with weddings coming up that go to mass nowadays. Give it 60 years and it'll be gone.
    :eek: That isn't realistic. The catholic and christian church, for better or worse, has been wed to Ireland for centuries, almost two millenia. This report is not its death, although it should mark a complete reassessment of how we deal with child protection even in 2009.

    I also believe, like others here, that child abuse is far more common in society than is ever reported and correcting that should be our focus if this report is to have any positive repercussions whatsoever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    this may all be only the tip of the iceberg too. The report into the Dublin diocese will be out in a few weeks so prepare for Round Two then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Mary Kenny meanwhile hangs on to the Churches coat-tails for grim death

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/20/catholic-abuse-ireland


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    I found myself that my faith is very strong but I could not remain within the RC church so I am now a fully paid up card carrying member of the Anglican faith. There were a number of doctrinal issues that I could not reconcile with in the RC faith.

    Whatever the future of the RC church this festering wound caused by the church cannot remain unhealed. The constant legalistic attitude that is based on the protection of assets and funds is totally contrary to anything based in faith and cannot be tolerated by any right thinking person.

    There has to be a reckoning - those guilty of these crimes must be made pay. Otherwise the church is just an emtpy ediface not worthy of our time or effort.

    Riv


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