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Childcare Abuse Inquiry Results

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12467…10

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    #92
    procure11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭procure11


    + 1


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    #93
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    A truly desperate state of affairs. I hope at the bare minimum steps have (and will be taken), to prevent stuff like this taking place in the future.


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    #94
    paddyboy23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 94 ✭✭paddyboy23


    i seen brian hayes and eamon gillmore on the news and even the state the country is in financialy they still try to play there silly party politics blaming ff for what happend to them poor innocent children there partys were also in goverment during the last 60 or 70 years ask any man who over 40 in ireland and we all new what was going on this issue should not be for scoring politics points each of your partys enjoyed the praise ye got from the pulpit and the headmasters office i remember my mam saying to me years ago its artane for u me boy and the cat o nine tails everyone new every parents in ireland 1 time or another told kids the same politicans cop on fools


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    #95
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    Just to turn to the issue of redress, there are two important questions:
    1. Why did the Government strike the indemnity deal (limited exposure) with the Catholic Church before the findings of the report was made known?
    2. Why were Church properties, particularly schools, never brought into this deal when it seems like it would have been an opportune time to do something about the lack of state ownership of primary schools?

    Does anybody know the answer to these issues? Excluding any church/ state collusion conspiracy theories, that is.


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    #96
    Jesus1222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭Jesus1222


    InFront wrote: »
    Just to turn to the issue of redress, there are two important questions:
    1. Why did the Government strike the indemnity deal (limited exposure) with the Catholic Church before the findings of the report was made known?
    2. Why were Church properties, particularly schools, never brought into this deal when it seems like it would have been an opportune time to do something about the lack of state ownership of primary schools?

    Does anybody know the answer to these issues? Excluding any church/ state collusion conspiracy theories, that is.

    Why are these theories not valid? In your opinion.

    Without knowing the background, I would guess that the State was afraid it would be stuck with the whole bill. Another poster mentioned that it is alleged that the FF member responsible for the deal is rumoured to be a member of Opus Dei, he denies it. It is mentioned in his Wikipedia entry.


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    #97
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    mike65 wrote: »
    Mary Kenny meanwhile hangs on to the Churches coat-tails for grim death

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/20/catholic-abuse-ireland
    Irelands answer to the holocaust denier.


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    #98
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    mike65 wrote: »
    Mary Kenny meanwhile hangs on to the Churches coat-tails for grim death

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/20/catholic-abuse-ireland

    JHC that article is shameful.
    I notice she blames Casey's fall from grace on the sexual experience of Annie McCarrick. He was led astray of course, her using her womanly ways and him only doing what was natural.

    Funny how she conveniently forgot about that other fine propagandists of the RC one Michael Cleary. Was he led astray as well ?

    She also skips over some other notables such as those scumbags Fortune and Smyth, hell she seems to have forgot the entire cabal of christian brothers.

    It is a disgusting article.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #99
    futurehope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭futurehope


    RiverWilde wrote: »

    I found myself that my faith is very strong but I could not remain within the RC church so I am now a fully paid up card carrying member of the Anglican faith. There were a number of doctrinal issues that I could not reconcile with in the RC faith.


    Riv

    Well done mate. Hope many more will follow.

    KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.


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    #100
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    InFront wrote: »
    Just to turn to the issue of redress, there are two important questions:
    1. Why did the Government strike the indemnity deal (limited exposure) with the Catholic Church before the findings of the report was made known?
    2. Why were Church properties, particularly schools, never brought into this deal when it seems like it would have been an opportune time to do something about the lack of state ownership of primary schools?
    Does anybody know the answer to these issues? Excluding any church/ state collusion conspiracy theories, that is.

    Michael Woods, then Minister for Education, struck the deal with little, or no, interaction with the rest of the government or with the Attorney General, according to the Irish Times article today.

    Sickening, the whole thing.

    Oh, Laura Canning (I think that's her name), wrote a very good rebuttal against Mary the-apoligist Kenny for the Guardian, a good read.


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    #101
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    Artane:
    from section 7.232:

    "One Brother related an incident where his fellow Brothers had burst into applause when he entered a room where they were, as it had been learned that he had punished one of his pupils by punching him in the face – previously he had not dealt out such harsh punishment."

    http://www.childabusecommission.com/rpt/01-07.php


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    #102
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    sickens me that the TAX PAYER not the church will have to suffer aswell to pay compos,thats like saying a person that broke a window wont have to pay up in court


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    #103
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    Jesus1222 wrote: »
    Why are these theories not valid? In your opinion.
    The publication of a report into child abuse which implicates the Christian or Catholic Church in Ireland is inevitably going to attract the same old voices who talk of Irish society as if it is still ravaged by the power of local religious leaders and as though the church remains a whipping-boy of a whimpering Prince in the form of the Republic.

    I'm just interested in finding out if there are any more substantial reasons than these for explaining the genesis of such a generous indemnity agreement, and why it didn't involve school buildings. I'm not trying to make a point, just genuinely curious.


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    #104
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    Fred83 wrote: »
    sickens me that the TAX PAYER not the church will have to suffer aswell to pay compos,thats like saying a person that broke a window wont have to pay up in court

    It would inevitably fall on the tax payer though, as the government allowed it to happen. The government also allowed the church to look after those people when they should have been doing it themselves.

    It's a sickening "pass the book" operation.


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    #105
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    futurehope wrote: »
    Well done mate. Hope many more will follow.

    KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

    Tough luck. Tony Blair just went the other way.


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    #106
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    RiverWilde wrote: »
    I found myself that my faith is very strong but I could not remain within the RC church so I am now a fully paid up card carrying member of the Anglican faith. There were a number of doctrinal issues that I could not reconcile with in the RC faith.


    Riv

    The former Australian Governor General, An Anglican Bishop, had to resign because of child abuse allegations. Anglicans are child abusers too.


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    #107
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    rant_and_rave wrote: »
    Tough luck. Tony Blair just went the other way.

    He sure has the credentials, the bothers and nuns will welcome him.


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    #108
    futurehope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭futurehope


    rant_and_rave wrote: »
    Tough luck. Tony Blair just went the other way.

    If I wasn't a Christian I'd say you're welcome to him (and all the other depraved fools).


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    #109
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    He sure has the credentials.

    Yes the English elected him three times. Best British PM this century and the last.


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    #110
    futurehope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭futurehope


    I fear 'The Sisters of No Mercy'/'The Not-So-Christian Brothers' may be amongst us Ladies and Gentlemen.

    The diversionary finger pointing has begun...

    :eek:


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    #111
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    InFront wrote: »
    I'm just interested in finding out if there are any more substantial reasons than these for explaining the genesis of such a generous indemnity agreement, and why it didn't involve school buildings. I'm not trying to make a point, just genuinely curious.

    Property rights. You cannot just confiscate property like the Nazis seized property from the Jews. The RCC was acting on behalf of the Government so it is only proper that the taxpayer i.e. the voter pick up the bill. The Irish Government never bothered setting up an alternative care system. They have to pay for that mistake.


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    #112
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    InFront wrote: »
    J
    1. Why were Church properties, particularly schools, never brought into this deal when it seems like it would have been an opportune time to do something about the lack of state ownership of primary schools?


    I should think it's bloody obvious. If you give the Government the power to seize private property in this case then they can use the same law to take private property from any one they don't like.

    The RCC were operating on behalf of the Government so the Government must take the blame.


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    #113
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    rant_and_rave wrote: »
    Yes the English elected him three times. Best British PM this century and the last.

    Matter of opinion, also depends on how low your standards are.


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    #114
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Irelands answer to the holocaust denier.

    The RCC Reformatory Schools were responsible for 5% of Child abuse in Ireland over the period of the Commission's report. Some else has already posted a thread on this. What about the other 95%. No compensation. No day in court and not a single mention on this thread from all you pathetic fools who feign sympathy for victims of child abuse just so you can attack one particular church.


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    #115
    futurehope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭futurehope


    A disturbing thought has just occurred to me gentlemen. If the corrupt politicos go to confession and tell all to their priest, then how can they deal with a depraved cleric? Won't he (or one of his unholy brethren) threaten to expose the greedy politician, using information gleaned within the confession box? Could this explain some of the bizarre behaviour of Ireland's ruling elite in this crisis?


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    #116
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    rant_and_rave wrote: »
    The RCC Reformatory Schools were responsible for 5% of Child abuse in Ireland over the period of the Commission's report. Some else has already posted a thread on this. What about the other 95%. No compensation. No day in court and not a single mention on this thread from all you pathetic fools who feign sympathy for victims of child abuse just so you can attack one particular church.

    Opus Dei? Youth Defence? Or just general champion of peadophile rings?


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    #117
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    futurehope wrote: »

    "We'll bury your Fenian murderers, if you ignore the cries of your own children"

    "Look North and East Irishmen. The monstrous 'Orange Statelet' and the cruel 'British Empire'"

    How stupid it all seems now eh?

    Completely racist claptrap. This is the kind of logic that inspired the Shankill butchers to go out and murder Irish Catholics. Do you want blood on you hands?

    As for the rest. Kincora Home anyone?


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    #118
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    rant_and_rave wrote: »
    Property rights. You cannot just confiscate property like the Nazis seized property from the Jews.
    Please do not compare these religious orders to the Jews of Nazi Europe you will do yourself, or them, no favours.
    The RCC was acting on behalf of the Government so it is only proper that the taxpayer i.e. the voter pick up the bill.
    And the clergy who raped and abused these destitute children, an abuse that amounts to torture, were working for the Catholic Church. Isn;t it only proper that the Catholic Church pick up the tab?
    The RCC were operating on behalf of the Government so the Government must take the blame.
    Why did the Catholic Church legally oppose the naming of abusers in this report, and only when the report was published say they didn't mind naming the abusers at all?

    It sounds to me like you are looking at that Church through rose tinted glasses.


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    #119
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    Jesus1222 wrote: »
    On a less sensationalist note: I find it more than a bit ironic that today, Big Ian, the man from my childhood that everybody loved to hate, is a man whose opinions on the nature of the Roman Catholic Church I generally share.

    Paisley inspired the Shankill Butchers to murder innocent Catholics. Is that something you would like to encourage.


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    #120
    rant_and_rave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭rant_and_rave


    KINGVictor wrote: »

    In summary,I think we should look at this as a systematic failure as a country and not just take swipes at Christains...as we have heard of Judges,gardai,teachers,lawyers,doctors,bricklayers,Christains,Atheists etc that have been guilty of the same.It is more of a social problem than a religious one.

    Hear hear.


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    #121
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    InFront wrote: »


    Why did the Catholic Church legally oppose the naming of abusers in this report, and only when the report was published say they didn't mind naming the abusers at all?

    It sounds to me like you are looking at that Church through rose tinted glasses.

    The catholic church has only ever been interested in money and power. It only ever serves its own interests and poor unfortunate children were nothing compared to keeping the church institution intact. It needs to start over and embrace poverty to learn humility.


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