Illegal Live Baits - Lough Derg

RichMc70

Anglers Caught With Live Carp On Lough Derg - 'Most serious incident' of anglers importing live fish to target Ireland's pike.

In the days preceding Fisheries Awareness Week, during which the Shannon Regional Fisheries Board (ShRFB ) is seeking to educate and promote awareness of our valuable natural fisheries resource, an incident was uncovered which had the potential to cause serious damage to one of Ireland's finest wild fisheries.

During a routine patrol of Lough Derg near Killaloe, Fisheries Officers from the ShRFB on routine patrol uncovered the most serious incident to date regarding the importation of live fish for use as fishing bait. A group of French anglers were using live carp as bait for pike fishing. During the course of the investigation, Officers uncovered live carp on fishing rods, in tanks both inside a boat and in containers which were tied onto another boat. There were even live carp being held in a keep net, which was attached to the jetty on the shore and in their holiday accommodation.

The carp, which the anglers had in their possession, was brought with them from France into Ireland. The use of live bait in Ireland is illegal for a number of reasons but mainly to prevent non- native fish movements and the introduction of disease. Of serious concern to the ShRFB is that carp are not currently present in Lough Derg. These carp could have the potential to introduce diseases or if carp became established in Lough Derg, they would upset the balance of nature. Lough Derg is the third largest lake in Ireland and is rich in fish species such as trout, bream, pike and roach.

Mr Eamon Cusack, CEO of the ShRFB, stated that “incidents like this are becoming all too common. While on this occasion I would hope that we have prevented a more serious situation developing, we cannot cover all waters all of the time. While we are currently working with other agencies to tighten regulations it is also imperative on us to make anglers and people aware of the consequences to our native fish of such actions.
One of the highlights of Fisheries Awareness Week is a one-day conference being held in Limerick on the 30th April, which is titled “Shannon Waters – Managing Fisheries in Challenging Times” and will address some of these issues. It is vitally important that anglers and those in the tourist industry are aware of the dangers the introduction of non- native fish species can have on our wild waters.”
Further details on the conference or Fisheries Awareness Week can be found at http://www.education.shrfb.ie

The Board requests the public, particularly accommodation providers and anglers, who may become aware of such illegal activity to contact the board's office at 061300238.

http://www.onlinefishing.tv/news/anglers-caught-with-live-carp-on-lough-derg/


I wonder how on earth did these people get the carp into the country in the first place?

neil_hosey

Absolutely delighted they were caught, i wouldnt have guessed french anglers would do this, giving themeslves a bad name (saying that, wasnt a certain reputable irish angler caught few months ago bringin live bait over from england??)

Anyway, cant understand how they managed to get so many in ??? in their suitcases????? baffled..

stevenmu

They must have driven over on a ferry with containers in a van or camper or something. Possibly they brought their own boat over too with the wells filled.

RichMc70

stevenmu wrote: »

They must have driven over on a ferry with containers in a van or camper or something. Possibly they brought their own boat over too with the wells filled.

I'd say youre right there Steve, the ferry seems the most likely route.

I guess the customs boys are too busy trying to catch drug smugglers, than to worry about live fish smuggling.

It's worrying though because you have to wonder what other illegal or non-indigenous species are being brought in and possibly released into our waters/wildlife.

Anyway, well done to the Fisheries Board for some good work.

Cormdogg

That is unbelievable and what sport is it having buckets of live bait for pike?

coolwings

I think they were more interested in the pike than the sport. Livebait over and pike return. If you're a "look-at-the-free-meat-I-caught-fisherman" Why stop at breaking one law?

I hope their car and boat were confiscated.

sickpuppy

**** just a quick question can Carp breed in cold climates like ours?

Ok were not cold more temperate because i know im many countries carp have devastated native species liek australia in the Murray you could catch a fish a cast on any bait.
I used use live minnows years ago till i found it was illegal .

In over 20 years of river fishing in ireland i jave only once seen a baliff and that was in the rod licence fiasco in the late 80s this messing is probably very widespread
As cool wings said whos to police these guys from filling there holds or freezer with pike fillets?
if these feckers catch enough fish could pay for the holdiay and who does not love agood free holiday?
Comapared to the uk keeping fish caught here would be easy heavy fines and not taking daft excuses might help

coolwings

sickpuppy wrote: »

... whos to police these guys from filling there holds or freezer with pike fillets?...

There is mainly us other law abiding anglers.
Put the numbers of the local RFB - and the mobile out-of-hours number too - into your mobile memory.
Get to know the RFB officers (their fishing info is very helpful if you don't pester) and then they will react to a call from you when you see something hapening while out fishing.
We are their eyes, they are the law. It's a good combination that can save your local water from being hammered.

Duck's hoop

There was a very well known British angler caught attempting to smuggle live bait into Ireland 3 years ago. Stopped at Holyhead I believe. This goes on a fair bit with visiting British and European anglers.

On the subject of catching for the table, I recently watched 3 French anglers catch about 8 jacks to about 4 lbs from a boat, in an hour and none of those fish were returned. I felt like saying something but I think it's 6 lbs of 'pike flesh' per day so between the 3 they were possibly within their limits.

It just wasn't a good impression. Not to get xenophobic about it but they did take a huge amount of pike out of the Erne system in the eighties, ably assisted by their German counterparts.

Zzippy

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There was a very well known British angler caught attempting to smuggle live bait into Ireland 3 years ago. Stopped at Holyhead I believe. This goes on a fair bit with visiting British and European anglers.

On the subject of catching for the table, I recently watched 3 French anglers catch about 8 jacks to about 4 lbs from a boat, in an hour and none of those fish were returned. I felt like saying something but I think it's 6 lbs of 'pike flesh' per day so between the 3 they were possibly within their limits.

It just wasn't a good impression. Not to get xenophobic about it but they did take a huge amount of pike out of the Erne system in the eighties, ably assisted by their German counterparts.

You felt like saying something? What stopped you? For future reference its 1 pike per day up to 50cm max length, anything over that must be returned, and its 0.75kgs flesh in possession. A 4lbs jack would be well over 50cm.
Its nothing new, French anglers did this - keeping all their pike - for years, and its the reason the pike byelaw was introduced.

sickpuppy wrote: »

**** just a quick question can Carp breed in cold climates like ours?

Carp require water temperatures of around 20C for several weeks in June-July to breed successfully, which is achieved some years in shallower waters, but the main lakes such as Derg would rarely get those temps for sustained periods. They could easily breed in the warm water outflow from power stations on the Shannon though.

Duck's hoop

Zzippy wrote: »

You felt like saying something? What stopped you?

I think it's absolutely clear from my post that what stopped me was the fact that I was under the erroneous impression that people were within their rights to have up to 6lbs of pike flesh in their possession at any given time.

Unfortunately I do not have the encyclopaedic knowledge of various angling bye laws that you yourself do. My complete atonement is imminent.

Thanks for the clarification and patient comprehension.

mrttattoo

well done on some quality posts boys
but im afraid im very biased here i recently watched french anglers doing this exact same thing two boats a rubber dinghy and two float tubes all keepin everyfish i watched through binoculars for maybe a half hour and witnessed 3 pike one of which was a doule being kept not killed just dropped into a box on the boat. Inraged i rang the fisheries board and got through to an answering machine. i left a message but heard nothing back about it so rang again and was told in a very unhelpful tone "what i am supposed to do they will be gone when i get there"
this is a load of rubbish and i only wish i could use stronger language...
the real matter that bothers me here is i have met these very same anglers on a few of my local lakes and they are renting boats from members of the fisheries board but i have the sneakin suspicion that its ok for these french anglers because they are payin...:mad::mad::mad:
these same fisheries board workers also wouldnt take a ten minute walk from the car park to check on foreign national fishing the bank at the far side of this small lake...
i appologise to the hardworking fisheries board officers who do good work but i believe alot of whom are only interested in trout and sAlmon

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I think it's absolutely clear from my post that what stopped me was the fact that I was under the erroneous impression that people were within their rights to have up to 6lbs of pike flesh in their possession at any given time.

Unfortunately I do not have the encyclopaedic knowledge of various angling bye laws that you yourself do. My complete atonement is imminent.

Thanks for the clarification and patient comprehension.

Zzippy

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I think it's absolutely clear from my post that what stopped me was the fact that I was under the erroneous impression that people were within their rights to have up to 6lbs of pike flesh in their possession at any given time.

Unfortunately I do not have the encyclopaedic knowledge of various angling bye laws that you yourself do. My complete atonement is imminent.

Thanks for the clarification and patient comprehension.

No offence, but the old byelaw which were obviously aware of, having quoted the limit of pike flesh (it was actually 3.3lbs or 1.5kgs), also prohibited taking more than one pike per day less than 6.6lbs. I don't want to fall out with anyone, but maybe you should familiarise yourself more with current up-to-date regulations so you will be able to determine if the law is being broken or not in future.

mrttattoo wrote: »

well done on some quality posts boys
but im afraid im very biased here i recently watched french anglers doing this exact same thing two boats a rubber dinghy and two float tubes all keepin everyfish i watched through binoculars for maybe a half hour and witnessed 3 pike one of which was a doule being kept not killed just dropped into a box on the boat. Inraged i rang the fisheries board and got through to an answering machine. i left a message but heard nothing back about it so rang again and was told in a very unhelpful tone "what i am supposed to do they will be gone when i get there"
this is a load of rubbish and i only wish i could use stronger language...
the real matter that bothers me here is i have met these very same anglers on a few of my local lakes and they are renting boats from members of the fisheries board but i have the sneakin suspicion that its ok for these french anglers because they are payin...:mad::mad::mad:
these same fisheries board workers also wouldnt take a ten minute walk from the car park to check on foreign national fishing the bank at the far side of this small lake...
i appologise to the hardworking fisheries board officers who do good work but i believe alot of whom are only interested in trout and sAlmon

If this actually happened you should complain in writing to the CEO of the relevant fisheries board and ask for a response in writing. Its not acceptable to refuse to come out, or not check people fishing to avoid a 10 minte walk.
However you've also made allegations about fisheries officers turning a blind eye to offences for personal gain - those are very serious allegations and you should either make an official complaint or retract them - although you haven't named anyone it besmirches the reputation of fisheries officers in general, so you shouldn't make unfounded allegations unless you can back them up.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

delighted the bastards were caught.

what ever about using live roach from a different venue, but to use carp, an alien species to the lake is wrong in so many ways. Tbh, id say the fisheries board was tipped off about it, i mean if they allow the royal canal to be pretty mush netted clean of fish by FNs, i doubt they would catch these guys.

Whats more worrying is how long this has being going on. Was this the first time carp have been used in derg? if not, there is bound to be some escapees, which probably wouldnt cause too much damage in derg, but if they move into the shannon you know the fisheries board will use their heavy hands trying to get the out, like all the electrofishing on the inny when some chub took residence

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

sickpuppy wrote: »

**** just a quick question can Carp breed in cold climates like ours?

im 99.9% sure they can, a carp lake i have fished contains carp under the 1oz mark! and lots of them too, the last session my mate put on 2 maggots and got a carp less than an inch long! I was talking to the owner of the lake, and he was saying that the carp in the lake are getting ready to spawn. Before that conversation, i didnt believe they spawned in Ireland, but the owner knows a lot more about carp than me!

sickpuppy

Althougha invasive species i think the chub is a beautiful fish if ya could get replace the ugly bream with them great.

Maybe in a smaller say shallow lake it warms up better than a big lake like Deg or Lough Rea and spawn has a chance of surviving and gowing ino adult fish.

Does anyone know how long species of fish have been in ireland?

is there somewhere one can get historical data on it?

I googled freshwater fish in ireland got lots of info roach in shannon system since 1981
would be disaster of abreeding population of carp got going here

Zzippy

Izaiah Stocky Limb wrote: »

delighted the bastards were caught.

what ever about using live roach from a different venue, but to use carp, an alien species to the lake is wrong in so many ways. Tbh, id say the fisheries board was tipped off about it, i mean if they allow the royal canal to be pretty mush netted clean of fish by FNs, i doubt they would catch these guys.

Whats more worrying is how long this has being going on. Was this the first time carp have been used in derg? if not, there is bound to be some escapees, which probably wouldnt cause too much damage in derg, but if they move into the shannon you know the fisheries board will use their heavy hands trying to get the out, like all the electrofishing on the inny when some chub took residence

Do you have a problem with the Shannon board trying to remove the chub? Electro-fishing is probably the most fish-friendly method of catching them as they can release the other species without too many mortalities and retain the chub. Calling it heavy handed is silly, unless you can suggest a better method? Or would you prefer that they leave them there?

Izaiah Stocky Limb wrote: »

im 99.9% sure they can, a carp lake i have fished contains carp under the 1oz mark! and lots of them too, the last session my mate put on 2 maggots and got a carp less than an inch long! I was talking to the owner of the lake, and he was saying that the carp in the lake are getting ready to spawn. Before that conversation, i didnt believe they spawned in Ireland, but the owner knows a lot more about carp than me!

sickpuppy wrote: »

Maybe in a smaller say shallow lake it warms up better than a big lake like Deg or Lough Rea and spawn has a chance of surviving and gowing into adult fish.

Yep, smaller shallow lakes will warm up quicker and retain the heat for longer, so the few weeks above 20C required for successful spawning and hatching will be achieved more years in these smaller lakes than in the likes of Lough Derg.

Duck's hoop

Zzippy wrote: »

No offence, but the old byelaw which were obviously aware of, having quoted the limit of pike flesh (it was actually 3.3lbs or 1.5kgs), also prohibited taking more than one pike per day less than 6.6lbs. I don't want to fall out with anyone, but maybe you should familiarise yourself more with current up-to-date regulations so you will be able to determine if the law is being broken or not in future.

So I presume from this you may see where my confusion arose. To be honest I'm not sure whether it's up to me to go looking up up to the minute legislation on fishery protection. Seems to me the last time I saw anything about it was in a fishing comic a while back and it was that law you're going on about, the 3.3 lbs of flesh one.

It all seems a little vague to me.

Zzippy

Duck's hoop wrote: »

So I presume from this you may see where my confusion arose. To be honest I'm not sure whether it's up to me to go looking up up to the minute legislation on fishery protection. Seems to me the last time I saw anything about it was in a fishing comic a while back and it was that law you're going on about, the 3.3 lbs of flesh one.

It all seems a little vague to me.

Well I thought since you knew about the limit on pike flesh that you would also know about the one fish limit, and from your post it was clear that more than one pike was taken by at least one angler:

I recently watched 3 French anglers catch about 8 jacks to about 4 lbs from a boat, in an hour and none of those fish were returned. I felt like saying something but I think it's 6 lbs of 'pike flesh' per day so between the 3 they were possibly within their limits.

You can check the up to date regulations here

http://www.cfb.ie/fishing_in_ireland/Angling%20Regulations.htm

As for whether its up to you to keep up to date on regulations, well its apparent from your first post that you thought about saying something, but uncertainty about the regulations stopped you. If you knew the current law there's nothing to stop you. Its also important so you don't fall foul of the law yourself - what if the regs are changed and you haven't informed yourself and you're caught for breaking them? Whats it they say - ignorance of the law is no excuse!
And btw, there's nothing vague about it - one pike per day up to 50cms or 0.75kgs of flesh. I don't see anything vague about that.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Zzippy wrote: »

Do you have a problem with the Shannon board trying to remove the chub? Electro-fishing is probably the most fish-friendly method of catching them as they can release the other species without too many mortalities and retain the chub. Calling it heavy handed is silly, unless you can suggest a better method? Or would you prefer that they leave them there?

If done correctly, it can be effective, but it was not done correctly. It was done while the roach and bream were spawning. Probably the worst time of the year to do it. Whats annoying me is this: There will always be chub in the river, they have been in there a few years, and you will never get them all out. Chub are an alien species to the river, but i doubt they would "take over", the english rivers are a good example of this. However, the fisheries board will try to get funding every year to remove the chub from the river, which could be very bad for the river if done incorrectly.

I wonder was there any study done on the river to measure the impact of chub in the river? If there was, id love to have a look at it.

I would prefer to have them left there if it is going to cause more damage in trying to remove them.

Zzippy

Izaiah Stocky Limb wrote: »

If done correctly, it can be effective, but it was not done correctly. It was done while the roach and bream were spawning. Probably the worst time of the year to do it. Whats annoying me is this: There will always be chub in the river, they have been in there a few years, and you will never get them all out. Chub are an alien species to the river, but i doubt they would "take over", the english rivers are a good example of this. However, the fisheries board will try to get funding every year to remove the chub from the river, which could be very bad for the river if done incorrectly.

I wonder was there any study done on the river to measure the impact of chub in the river? If there was, id love to have a look at it.

I would prefer to have them left there if it is going to cause more damage in trying to remove them.

A study - oh yes, lets do a study before we do anything about it, that way we'll give the nice chub another couple of years spawning before we take them out - if the study says we should do that of course.
Chub are an alien species to Ireland, I fully support all measures taken to remove them. As soon as the fishery board became aware of their presence they commenced removal operations. Sorry if you didn't like the timing, but there are plenty of roach and bream in the Shannon catchment - it may have interfered with spawning but at least electro-fishing would not kill many of them.
I suspect the last line of your post is more accurate of your feelings on chub - bet you wouldn't mind the sport they provide eh.
So just because you think they will always be there is no reason not to try to remove them - sure why bother! Well thankfully other people are more concerned about native species and ecosystems.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

you have totally missed my point.

1. im not "

Zzippy wrote: »

concerned about native species and ecosystems"

? The whole point I was complaining about the electro-fishing was because it was done while the roach/bream were spawning. If it was done 6 weeks earlier or later then i would not have been complaining about it.

2."

Zzippy wrote: »

oh yes, lets do a study before we do anything about it

" if they are not causing a major problem, why risk damaging other fish by electro-fishing. If they are causing a major problem, then get them out asap, but dont have a shoot first, ask questions later approach. Look at UK rivers, where chub (and barbel) were introduced by the fisheries boards, they have not taken over, e.g. river severn.

3. "

Zzippy wrote: »

bet you wouldn't mind the sport they provide eh

"
I don't know how you can say that after reading my last line? For the record, i have known about the chub in the Inny for the last 5 years, but i have never fished the river.

4. "

Zzippy wrote: »

So just because you think they will always be there is no reason not to try to remove them - sure why bother! Well thankfully other people are more concerned about native species and ecosystems.

" I could list a few lakes and lots of areas on the river suck, shannon that have been hammered by foreign nationals and parts of the royal cannal that have been pretty much emptied of fish life (just ask any dublin angler), do you not feel its more important to restock these rivers and lakes, than trying to remove the chub from the Inny IF they are not causing a problem?


IF the chub are causing a problem => get them out. If they are not, why waste the fisheries board's time when stocks of our course fish have never been so low on the shannon system? http://www.shannon-fishery-board.ie/downloads/2007_Annual_Report.pdf page 31 shows the amount of chub that were caught in 06 and 07 by electro-fishing.

Kess73

I am wondering if they even brought the carp over with them. Anyone here that knows the area around Lough Derg will know that there are carp in one of the nearby small lakes.



Would hate to think that they were taking from that small stock for their live baiting, would just make the whole thing worse in my eyes.

demanufactured

Zzippy wrote: »

A study - oh yes, lets do a study before we do anything about it, that way we'll give the nice chub another couple of years spawning before we take them out - if the study says we should do that of course.
Chub are an alien species to Ireland, I fully support all measures taken to remove them. As soon as the fishery board became aware of their presence they commenced removal operations. Sorry if you didn't like the timing, but there are plenty of roach and bream in the Shannon catchment - it may have interfered with spawning but at least electro-fishing would not kill many of them.
I suspect the last line of your post is more accurate of your feelings on chub - bet you wouldn't mind the sport they provide eh.
So just because you think they will always be there is no reason not to try to remove them - sure why bother! Well thankfully other people are more concerned about native species and ecosystems.

Trout/Salmon angler.

stevenmu

demanufactured wrote: »

Trout/Salmon angler.

Tbh any angler should be against the introduction of foreign species. The first impact people may think of may be to trout and salmon, who know's what impact they will actually have (I actually suspect they would compete more with other other coarse species than trout or salmon). They could compete with other species wiping them out, and then possibly not thrive and die out themselves. They could introduce disease wiping out fishing stocks, and I might be wrong but I believe the transportation of live fish can also spread invasive plants like the Lagarosiphon major in Corrib ( and apparantly there's another one on the way ).

Not to mention that a large part of the attraction for many anglers (both game and coarse) is pitting themselves against what nature can provide. If people just want to pull in fish after fish and want to target non-native species, there's plenty of stocked fisheries to cater for all tastes. There's no need to destroy natural fisheries.

Zzippy

Izaiah Stocky Limb wrote: »

you have totally missed my point.

1. im not "? The whole point I was complaining about the electro-fishing was because it was done while the roach/bream were spawning. If it was done 6 weeks earlier or later then i would not have been complaining about it.

2."" if they are not causing a major problem, why risk damaging other fish by electro-fishing. If they are causing a major problem, then get them out asap, but dont have a shoot first, ask questions later approach. Look at UK rivers, where chub (and barbel) were introduced by the fisheries boards, they have not taken over, e.g. river severn.

3. ""
I don't know how you can say that after reading my last line? For the record, i have known about the chub in the Inny for the last 5 years, but i have never fished the river.

4. "" I could list a few lakes and lots of areas on the river suck, shannon that have been hammered by foreign nationals and parts of the royal cannal that have been pretty much emptied of fish life (just ask any dublin angler), do you not feel its more important to restock these rivers and lakes, than trying to remove the chub from the Inny IF they are not causing a problem?


IF the chub are causing a problem => get them out. If they are not, why waste the fisheries board's time when stocks of our course fish have never been so low on the shannon system? http://www.shannon-fishery-board.ie/downloads/2007_Annual_Report.pdf page 31 shows the amount of chub that were caught in 06 and 07 by electro-fishing.

Apologies for misunderstanding a couple of your points. But the main point - if they are not causing a problem then do nothing - totally misses the real point. The issue is that these are non-native alien invasive species. They cannot but cause damage to the ecology of the river by impacting on native stocks - sure they will find a balance in the long term but that means that native fish stocks will have to adjust to accommodate them.
And there is no way of knowing how big an impact they will have without doing a report - yes, but waiting 2/3 years for such a report and not taking action risks making that impact even larger.
Look at Australia/NZ and their biosecurity regulations - they are there for a reason. Why can't we have similar strict regulations to protect our native fish? Just because a species provides good sport is no reason to introduce it.

demanufactured wrote: »

Trout/Salmon angler.

And your point is? Even if I only fished for trout/salmon is that a problem for you? By the way I fish for about 40 species of fish between fresh and saltwater, including trout, salmon, pike, and occasionally for roach and bream.