Green's ready to do a legger???

Darragh29

I think the stage is perfectly set now for the Green Party to pull down the curtains on this government. As it stands, Cowen has basically dismissed any talk of a "mid term review" this side of the June election, so he is clearly putting it back up to the Greens. I've a funny feeling The Green's are going to walk from government this side of the June elections, or if they don't, it will be all over bar the shouting. The harmonics coming from The Green's on a daily basis now seem to indicate a "we'd better get the fu*k out of here quick or else we're going to be going down with this shower"...

Sizzler

If only eh? Gormley doesnt have the balls. He'll get a few more of his policies steamrolled through the "programme for govt." since his party have started rumblings of discontent and that will be that, all smiles again.

No confidence vote is the only thing I can see bringing down the current cabinet :mad:

I would think that the Greens have already irreparably damaged their image and they know they wont get into Government again in a position like they have now.
If they had left a year ago it might have been a different story but I don't know many people who voted for them last time that would again as they are essentially propping up a terrible FF government for their own personal gain.

squonk

Agreed and it only serves to highlight their general impotence as a political group as well. They should get on with it if they don't intend to carry out leaving government. Using this as an excuse to get more of their moronic policies implemented is a bit poor imho.

On the other hand too I'm not really convinced now is a good time for the country to be engaged in an election campaign. There's enough problems as it is out there. Changing the government now will only slow down the process required at present to get through the current crisis. In my opinion the time for a change of government was at the last election. The dogs in the street knew what a shabby job Bert & Co. had done back then so votes should have been cast accordingly. I'm not an FF supporter and would love to see them out, but I think the bed has been made now and we have to sleep in it for a while longer for our general good.

squonk

squonk wrote: »

On the other hand too I'm not really convinced now is a good time for the country to be engaged in an election campaign. There's enough problems as it is out there. Changing the government now will only slow down the process required at present to get through the current crisis. In my opinion the time for a change of government was at the last election. The dogs in the street knew what a shabby job Bert & Co. had done back then so votes should have been cast accordingly. I'm not an FF supporter and would love to see them out, but I think the bed has been made now and we have to sleep in it for a while longer for our general good.

Oh God you can just imagine FF ripping a FG/Lab coalition to shreds for letting the country go down the pan. One thing worse than FF in gov would be every moron in this country going "Sure it was grand when FF were in then this shower came in and put the country into a recession" :eek:

Sonderval

I voted for Greens in the past as my 1st choice.

I had hopes they could make some decent inroads towards environmental issues, but their success has been limited. I have read a number of their policy documents recently and am confident they dont have a snowballs chance in hell of getting anything significant pushed through.

Unless they walk away now, I shall not be voting for them again.

Grudaire

No offense meant - but I think that this could have been accomodated in one of these threads:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055566561
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055567030
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055566562
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055566566
(All over the first three pages of the politics forum, I just think that it's getting a bit messy having so many threads on the topic.)


Anyway:

Would the Greens be better in hanging on for an upturn in the economy (and thus getting lots of respect for keeping it together)?

I think that they definitely have to have a renegotiation of the Government deal - however I don't know how far they can truly push FF, as there are only 6 TD's in the Greens, and FF have a lot of backbenchers...

squonk

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Oh God you can just imagine FF ripping a FG/Lab coalition to shreds for letting the country go down the pan. One thing worse than FF in gov would be every moron in this country going "Sure it was grand when FF were in then this shower came in and put the country into a recession" :eek:

Agreed and the way voter mentality goes we'd be back to the current situation in 18 months anyway. I say let the lads who made the mess clean it up, at least they know where all the sh*t is hidden.

squonk

Cliste wrote: »

Anyway:

Would the Greens be better in hanging on for an upturn in the economy (and thus getting lots of respect for keeping it together)?

They can't even keep their own party together let alone the economy! In all fairness, whatever you can say about FF, theres a chance of something they'll do digging us out of this recession. If the greens were running the show, I'd have emigrated by now... to where I don't know but I'd be gone!

Liam Byrne

IMHO, the Greens were dead and buried the moment Sargent pulled his "I won't lead this party into Government with FF" stroke.....

Good riddance, if you ask me; if Sargent & Gormley hadn't pulled that stroke we'd have had a proper Government through the latter stages of the boom and they might have heeded the relatively early warnings about the train that George Lee and Co had highlighted long before FF ever got the message.....

Grudaire

squonk wrote: »

They can't even keep their own party together let alone the economy! In all fairness, whatever you can say about FF, theres a chance of something they'll do digging us out of this recession. If the greens were running the show, I'd have emigrated by now... to where I don't know but I'd be gone!

The Greens don't have the same party structure as other parties - I think it's a much better system they have than any of the other parties who go in for top-down management. Because of their extreme democratic nature the party had no official stance on the Lisbon Treaty - thus allowing it's members to promote whichever side they like.

I'm curious as to how you think that the Greens would do such a bad job at the economy - they have taken to their own ministries quite well I would say... Their economic policies aren't all that radical either. You might even notice Fine Gael following the Greens idea's

"For example, the return on the investment in the electricity grid will come from
redirecting the €6 billion annual payments for fossil fuel imports towards domestic
renewable energy industries, which will in turn be charged for access to the grid." (From Fine Gael's 'Rebuilding Ireland'(Pg3) would you believe) - I'm sure you can see such crazy idea's on the Greens site from before then.

jmayo

squonk wrote: »

Agreed and the way voter mentality goes we'd be back to the current situation in 18 months anyway. I say let the lads who made the mess clean it up, at least they know where all the sh*t is hidden.

Nomrally I would sya let them clean up the mess they created but they are onyl making it worse, burying their head in the sand and postponing the enevitable.

On you first post you stated that we don't have time for an election and there are decisions that need to be made.
All I will say is they have had the last year to make decisions but have they done ?
They are stumbling from one mess to the next, only reacting to problems and then begrudingly. They don't appear to have any plans, they go back on their decisions or else they can't be easily enacted.

We need a change and we need them and their cosy little arrangements with certain lobby groups gone from the centre of our government and democracy.

It is probably already too late, because it looks like they have sold us and futue generations down the river to try and save the mess that the banks have become. :mad:

ismynametoolong

Cliste wrote: »

Anyway:

Would the Greens be better in hanging on for an upturn in the economy (and thus getting lots of respect for keeping it together)?
...

What planet are you living on ! I hope they jump because its hobsons choice for them as far as i can see Stay or Jump i think they will be wiped out at the next GE . The only benefit i can see for them in staying put is the ministerial pensions that will kick in after 2 years in office .

Darragh29

I get the impression that Gormley is in it for the long haul and maybe Eamon Ryan but that's about it. They could be probably hailed as hero's if they pulled the plug on this farce that is going on at the moment. Alternatively they can kepe their flag nailed to the FF mast and go down with the ship come 5th June. I think they are starting to realise that they are in for a hiding if they don't get out and get out quick.

Grudaire

ismynametoolong wrote: »

What planet are you living on ! I hope they jump because its hobsons choice for them as far as i can see Stay or Jump i think they will be wiped out at the next GE . The only benefit i can see for them in staying put is the ministerial pensions that will kick in after 2 years in office .

Planet Cliste - now my question was reasonable. The economy will pick up eventually. If it picks up people will begin saying how great that Lenihan was (they will - us electorate are a funny bunch), and that could lead to the Greens being seen as being strong throughout...

Now while I'm not disagreeing about the pensions at all - can someone link to the details of the ministerial pensions. Google basically links me back to comments, and I'm curious as to the details.

Liam Byrne

Cliste wrote: »

If it picks up people will begin saying how great that Lenihan was (they will - us electorate are a funny bunch)

Amazing! At the moment FF supporters are telling us that it's a "global recession that they have no control over", and now you're saying that if it picks back up it'll be all Lenihan's doing ? :rolleyes:

Some of us will still remember that the country had LOADS of cash that was wasted on ego projects and bailouts and payoffs for incompetent idiots, and that regardless of how we recover we will never get that back.

InFront

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Amazing! At the moment FF supporters are telling us that it's a "global recession that they have no control over", and now you're saying that if it picks back up it'll be all Lenihan's doing ? :rolleyes:

I don't think that's what Cliste is saying, but rather making a valid point in that the electorate have a short memory. If an election is called this year, FF will be put out of power. But you won't have heard the last of Lenihan or his party.

He may well lead them into Government within five years. Why? Because the electorate have a short memory

Grudaire

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Amazing! At the moment FF supporters are telling us that it's a "global recession that they have no control over", and now you're saying that if it picks back up it'll be all Lenihan's doing ? :rolleyes:

Some of us will still remember that the country had LOADS of cash that was wasted on ego projects and bailouts and payoffs for incompetent idiots, and that regardless of how we recover we will never get that back.

I didn't say that that's what I'd think - I'm far to cliste for that

Now seriously - if (I'm going to highlight words that you need to pay more attention to) the economy picks up people in general will go back to their usual apathetic selves. You seem to be forgetting that FF are on their third term in office, despite all the payoffs, money wasted and general brown enveloping.

niffle

I agree with you Cliste we had many opportunities to change the government, it is no surprise that yet again we are told to tighten our belts by FF who have an endless record of spending unwisely and wasting money. each time they come and raid the salaries of workers to prop up their badly thought out plans !

Seth Brundle

Green liars!
Let them run (although I don't see it happening until they have reached the golden two year mark next month!)!

Manifesto 2007
Main points

Housing - Ensure the delivery of 10,000 social and affordable housing units a year until the housing waiting lists are cleared.

Health - Provide an additional 4000 beds to cut A&E queues. Introduce medical cards for children under 6.

Child Care - Replace the Early Childcare Supplement with a higher Refundable Parenting Tax Credit available as a cash payment or used to reduce income tax bills.

Education - Invest €1 billion in education for the first year of the next Government to front-load educational priorities. Provide 2,400 extra teachers at primary and secondary levels.

Transport - Prioritise the Dublin Metro and Luas extensions, provide Luas-type lines in Cork and Galway and introduce commuter services on existing railway lines in Limerick and a line to Shannon.

Energy/Climate Change - Seek an all-party approach to cut carbon emissions by 3% annually through renewable energy and improved building standards.

Tax - Reduce both VAT rates by 1%. Index-link tax credits and bands to protect workers from inflation and avoid taxation by stealth.

Social Welfare - Benchmark the lowest social welfare payment for a single person at 50% of average income.

Crime - Provide for a systematic increase in Garda numbers - at least 15,000 are needed. Establish an Organised Crime Agency.

Environment - Increase spending on sewage treatment infrastructure in key towns and villages under development pressure.

Political Reform - Ban corporate donations to political parties.

Carers- Abolish means-testing of the carers’ allowance.

Pension - increase the basic pension from 30% of average income to 60%.

The Green Party in Government...it’s time.

Each increase for the Greens in the polls has been followed by half-hearted attempts by successive governments to court a Green vote. But the threats faced now are too urgent and it is clear that the Green Party needs to be in Government to bring about the necessary changes.

Political change is required across all Government departments, whether it’s providing better public transport services, improving building standards or ensuring that jobs, shops, schools and hospitals are provided close to where people live.

Who do you trust to take the climate change challenge seriously – the party that said all along that this was happening or the parties that denied it? Who do you trust to stand up to the vested interests – parties that depend on donations from big business or a party that refuses to allow itself to be bought?

And that is why we say to you now: if you want Green – Vote Green.

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/about/party_archives/election_2007/manifesto_2007

InFront

In fairness, though, in response to the above I don't think you can start waving an election manifesto at any of the political parties, let alone Greens. A lot of that stuff was very ambitious pre June 2007. Two years later it's the stuff of fairytales. No political party could have seen its manifesto through in this econmic climate, and rightly so.

Grudaire

kbannon wrote: »

Green liars!
Let them run (although I don't see it happening until they have reached the golden two year mark next month!)!

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/about/party_archives/election_2007/manifesto_2007

InFront wrote: »

In fairness, though, in response to the above I don't think you can start waving an election manifesto at any of the political parties, let alone Greens. A lot of that stuff was very ambitious pre June 2007. Two years later it's the stuff of fairytales. No political party could have seen its manifesto through in this econmic climate, and rightly so.

Not to mention they aren't doing a bad job on either Environment or Energy

And that's around (6/74*100)% of the manifesto:p

is_that_so

InFront wrote: »

I don't think that's what Cliste is saying, but rather making a valid point in that the electorate have a short memory. If an election is called this year, FF will be put out of power. But you won't have heard the last of Lenihan or his party.

He may well lead them into Government within five years. Why? Because the electorate have a short memory

I doubt it will be him. Martin strikes me as more likely. Lenihan is way too green(pardon the pun!). It is true that we have a short memory but we also love to hide in the long grass. As Lord Kilannin said once, the trouble with the Irish is that we have such long memories especially for slights. I don't think it makes a lot of difference when it's called. In fact the longer it goes on the more pain they'll be associated with. At the moment my money is on bye-election arithmetic, nudging us towards an election. As for the Greens they need a deal breaker which may be that fees decision young Batt is holding onto until after the elections.

Seth Brundle

InFront wrote: »

In fairness, though, in response to the above I don't think you can start waving an election manifesto at any of the political parties, let alone Greens. A lot of that stuff was very ambitious pre June 2007. Two years later it's the stuff of fairytales. No political party could have seen its manifesto through in this econmic climate, and rightly so.

So which items on the list have been tackled? I'm not going to pretend that I expect them to continue with their manifesto but they were in power for 18 months or so before the shít really hit the fan!

Grudaire

kbannon wrote: »

So which items on the list have been tackled? I'm not going to pretend that I expect them to continue with their manifesto but they were in power for 18 months or so before the shít really hit the fan!

At the risk of repeating myself: Environment and Energy