Three Year Licence Fee Increase ???

Cass

What I'm I missing here. I know it's €25/year for a shotgun but I'm paying €38/year for my gun license and for 3 years that's €114 so I'm I not saving €15 over the 3 years?

I'm of the same opinion. I have no subsequent licences so in the long run it works out slightly cheaper for me, (although with membership fees it will be a large one of expense initially), but i know that will not be the case for everyone.

Again any of the required acts are not signed in as yet BUT it would seem that all handgun licenses will not be renewed.

As for the above NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Anyone pre November 18th will retain their licence albeit under stricter conditions. All those post November 18th will have a fight on their hands but as J.R. said nothing is written in stone so hope is not lost. Lets face if they try to ban all handguns licenced post November 18th by refusing licences how long will it be before someone thinks to challenge the legallity of allowing certain citizens to own handguns while not allowing other citizens. One word for you Discrimination.

Thank you for your patience this ends my rant.

Meyer

clivej wrote:

Plus it's looking grim for the handguns.

clivej wrote: »

Again any of the required acts are not signed in as yet BUT it would seem that all handgun licenses will not be renewed

I had a chat with my FO today, and he was of the opinion that a sizeable quantity of handgun licences will be renewed (And that includes licences issued since the November 19 pronouncement by the Minister.), albeit under stricter terms. For instance own a handgun and you are not a member of an authorised pistol range...then forget about it! you have no excuse to have a handgun, so you licence will not be renewed. Own a handgun and not have adequate security... no renewal. Own a handgun and are a member of a pistol range, and yet the clubs books show you have never visited the range... no renewal.
Bottom line, If you have a handgun and are a member of a range, that you visit as often as you can, your licence will be renewed(Probably). If not then...

p.s. As far as the Ministers November 19 watershed is concerned, Any handgun licenced since that date cannot be revoked simply because he says so! The law might at times be an ass, but a law has to be in place before it can be acted on, so Ahern will have to bite the bullet on that one (Forgive the pun ).

Sparks

Lads, the FOs don't know what's going to happen, any more than anyone else does. We don't even know if the Bill will get through the Oireacthas in time to be commenced this year, or even if the local & EU elections will have an effect. On top of all of which, unless your FO is also your Super, they don't have any legal role in all of this and we've even been told by the Gardai to bypass the FO if there's a problem with licencing and go straight to the Superintendents, so I think a fairly large pinch of salt is needed with their predictions of what's going to happen.

(On the other hand Meyer, if that bill passes, then the licences issued after Nov.19 will be revoked. No ifs, ands or buts).

Jonty

Meyer wrote: »

For instance own a handgun and you are not a member of an authorised pistol range...then forget about it! you have no excuse to have a handgun, so you licence will not be renewed. Own a handgun and not have adequate security... no renewal. Own a handgun and are a member of a pistol range, and yet the clubs books show you have never visited the range... no renewal.

But this does not seem extreme to me. Its logical, if this will be the case.

G17

Jonty wrote: »

But this does not seem extreme to me. Its logical, if this will be the case.

Seems quite logical and fair too. If you just like the look of pistols get a replica or high end airsoft.
I'd like to be able to concentrate on training! We spend an hour every range day chatting about what might happen!

Grizzly 45

Ahhh,but the high end airsoft replicas might be illegal too under this act.OR you will have to get one in weird and wonderful Day Glo colors..

One other thing...DONT let An Post handle the re applications....
Consider this..We all have to had to increase our security by various stages depending on what guns we own..Now this has been on the demand of the Gardai,who in all fairness have kept our details of who,what and where 98% secure from leaks or loss.[Excluding of course the disaster of the addressed firearms dept headed envelopes and nothing is 100% perfect in this life].
People have had their guns referred to in crypitic gunowner/Gardai phone conversations as "devices" .Lest maybe the phones are being tapped or listend into.:eek:

So now we want to hand this to an organisation who loses mail,sends it to wrong addresses betimes,is not very private or secure,or confidental.I mean,imagine queing down in some post office when it is Miss Scumbags child allowance day and no doubt you are there reapplying at no doubt a hatch marked in both English and Irish Gun liscenses.There is a good chance that you will be noted by one of these people and this info will be passed back to Mr Scumbag as to where a "shooter" might be aquired.Or worse,your applications are mis deliverd to someone with your name in the wrong side of town,thussly creating unbeliveable troubles for your security.
IOW the one State organ that is at least going to be responsible with very sensitive information,is going to hand this information over ot another semi state organ??So will we expect a "gun liscense inspector" to show up on our doors??
Thanks ,but no thanks.I'd rather let the Gaurds stay handling this one.

J.R.

clivej wrote: »

J.R. wrote: »

J.R.
Please I know I'm out of my depth here on the handgun issue and I'll not comment on this anymore but please Don't shoot the messenger. And the FO was still not 100% sure of the current situation.

Clive - there was no offence meant towards you in any of my posts - far from it.....I just cut & pasted the ministers speech from Oireachtas Report.

All of us here Clive seem to out of our depth as there has been no official announcement on what the fees are to be....just rumours and second hand information.....everybody is just trying to pass on what information they've heard to try to make sense of it.

If a price for the renewals has been agreed the least the DOJ could do is inform us of it.

fish slapped

Have to agree with Grizzly on this, as at least once a week I get post addressed to someone else :eek:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ahhh,but the high end airsoft replicas might be illegal too under this act.

Er, no, they won't. They'll just be airsoft, same as before.

rrpc

I have to say that I find the whole licence fee hike (or even the current levels) to be usurious.

In terms of other licence fees that are paid by the citizens of this state, the firearms licence is the least capable of showing value for money.

Somewhere in the region of six million euro is collected every year and apart from a printed piece of paper and a world of grief plus a measly €35,000 from the Sporrts Council, the square root of fup all gets back to the shooting sports.

I'm not sure what senior Gardai get paid these days, but on the basis that a Super gets in the region of €100,000, then we are paying for 60 of them! Any attempt to justify the licence fee on the basis of cost of production falls flat in the face of that little statistic.

No other licence fee (that I know of - and I'm open to correction here) makes such a 'profit' for the state. They could put a million a year back into the sport and still be making money!

Then I'd be happy to pay an increase.

rrpc

fish slapped wrote: »

Have to agree with Grizzly on this, as at least once a week I get post addressed to someone else :eek:

That's your local postman, who also delivers your renewals from Garda HQ, so I don't see how you're any less open to that kind of security breach right now.

Anyway, AFAIK, it's the cash collection part of the licensing system that's being farmed out, not the actual licence itself.

Grizzly 45

T'would be most helpful if that point were clarified RRPC.
Sparks,
Wasnt it a scuttlebutt that the high end stuff was going to have to be either liscensed,painted odd colors and/or be sold thru regd dealers ala the UK in the new act,or done away with?Or am I reading this wrongly??

G17

Latest word on the street is €33 per firearm per year or €99 per firearm for the 3 years. The staggered basis is apparently going to work on a free gratis extension from 31st July to a particular date, restricted holders first in the queue. Every 3 years one has to apply again fresh in case there's any changes in your personal situation. Gardaí will handle no money which I'm sure will be terrific news for a lot of suffering firearm officers around the country.

2nd last week of June is the deadline to have all this passed through.

Also some if not all divisions have been 'guidelined' to not to process any applications for the next few weeks until eveything is bedded down.

I want a prize if my info is right; something tasteful.

It wasn't me!

No applications? Wang. I was going to be putting in for one in the immediate future, as soon as a bill of sale arrives.

Sparks

Not that I'm taking a swipe at G17, but if I had a euro for every time I heard "gospel truth" from "the street" that turned out to be - to be polite about it - wrong, well, I would be able to take up fullbore shooting

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

Not that I'm taking a swipe at G17, but if I had a euro for every time I heard "gospel truth" from "the street" that turned out to be - to be polite about it - wrong, well, I would be able to take up fullbore shooting

Well, for a limited time and at limited cost, *cough*!


My good deed for the day, giving Sparks things to agonise over!

Sparks

Argh!

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

Argh!

Job: Done


*politecough* Would it help if I mentioned I know of a good supply of very reasonably priced ammunition for such an implement, for the practising? And match-grade stuff, while stinging, is significantly less than 6BR.

Sparks

Back to the original topic before I go broke fast

rrpc wrote: »

I have to say that I find the whole licence fee hike (or even the current levels) to be usurious.
In terms of other licence fees that are paid by the citizens of this state, the firearms licence is the least capable of showing value for money.
Somewhere in the region of six million euro is collected every year and apart from a printed piece of paper and a world of grief plus a measly €35,000 from the Sporrts Council, the square root of fup all gets back to the shooting sports.

Very true. JayCee worked it out once - the total amount the government gives back to the sport via the ISC works out at about €2 for every competitive shooter out there. And for the hoops we're forced to jump through to get that money, you'd think they thought that was a lot - the degree of shock they felt when informed of the costs that your average shooter is laying out just to get to the firing line was apparently quite substantial. There was just no comprehension of the amount of money we put into our equipment, nor of the amount some disciplines (especially F-Class) use up in a competitive season for consumables and travel and other expenses.

It wasn't me!

Indeed. Some of the extreme F-Class calibres like the 7mm WSM could eat two barrels a season no bother. At what, €500 a barrel? That's seriously pricey, considering the amount of money ammo for something like that costs in the first place. It's just painful when people caw and preen themselves everytime a shooting athlete brings home something shiny, as if it's a personal and national victory (It's certainly a national one), but then spend the rest of their time making it as difficult for people to actually partake in the sport.

G17

Sparks wrote: »

Not that I'm taking a swipe at G17, but if I had a euro for every time I heard "gospel truth" from "the street" that turned out to be - to be polite about it - wrong, well, I would be able to take up fullbore shooting

I can't post it (so it didn't happen) but the word on the street was in a BIG building with a lot of people in blue uniforms. I was sooo close to that official document I could've almost tasted it, oh to have created a diversion and run to the scanner and posted it here, then they'd believe me, then I'd get respect, I'd be king of the shooting world MWAH HAW HAW!!!!!!!

Again I was told, if this passes through the legislative process this is what's pending.....(terms and conditions apply, licence fees may go up as well as down, your home is at risk if you do not keep.....)


I see everyone is nervously skirting the tasteful prize if I'm right bit.

You can't say I was wrong if it's wrong, dibs no comebacks!! :D:D

G17

Sorry, I always get a bit like this on a range day.........:D:D:D:D:D

Sparks

G17 wrote: »

I can't post it (so it didn't happen) but the word on the street was in a BIG building with a lot of people in blue uniforms.

Ah, the word from the lads who enforce the law written in the other big building with a lot of people in suits in it...


Seriously, it's not even sure they can get this bill passed in time for any of this to be applied, and there's a fair amount of pressure to strip the firearms stuff out of the Misc Bill alltogether and deal with it in a seperate Firearms Bill further down the line, so everything is up in the air at the moment with all of this.

G17

Sparks wrote: »

Ah, the word from the lads who enforce the law written in the other big building with a lot of people in suits in it...


Seriously, it's not even sure they can get this bill passed in time for any of this to be applied, and there's a fair amount of pressure to strip the firearms stuff out of the Misc Bill alltogether and deal with it in a seperate Firearms Bill further down the line, so everything is up in the air at the moment with all of this.

I don't know what I'll do with my time set aside for shooting if it is finalised, I've spent so much of it lately listening, discussing, writing, guessing, checking, refreshing, browsing, printing, posting, sighing, laughing..... Perhaps, I'll, em, go shooting?

Sparks

G17 wrote: »

Perhaps, I'll, em, go shooting?

I'm seriously starting to wonder just how much of our shooting time this has eaten up. I mean, this legislation is a follow-on from the 2006 Criminal Justice Act which started in 2004, but even then there were court cases and other political/legislative things going on before then - I reckon we've seen the guts of twelve years go into politics and legislation so far. How many hours of range time and how many euros we could have spent building up the sport does that come to?

It'd make you cry, it really would. And there's still no end in sight.