Core i7 Gaming Rig!!

techguy

So, i'm building a rig for a friend with a budget of about €1,500 - possibly €1,700 (inc. monitor)

Here is the current rig I have thrown together to get an idea on price..

A few of my thoughts and questions on it:

I have selected 3GB RAM for the moment as i'm not sure about wether I should go with 32 or 64 bit windows (xp or vista).. I'm also unsure about what memory I can choose. I know i'm going for DDR3 but not sure about timing, speed etc..If 64 Bit is recommended then i'll prob throw in about 8GB. I should also say that I threw in the mobo for price purposes..would it suit the rig?

I have selected a 24" screen (1920 x 1080) This is full HD, right?? What GFX card would suit best for that size? I think I wanna give ATI a shout this time... Would a 4870X2 2048MB card give very good results at this resolution or should I be looking at crossfire/SLI?? I'd try avoid that if at all possible as the guy isn't that sharp with the tech bits..

I have selected a Corsair 1kW PSU..I'm sure this would be adequate..would it allow for SLI/Crossfire on the tope Cards? Actually now that I think of it, he already has 9800GT..would this have any value as an add on for PhysX if I stuck with Nvidia?

Also, I'm wondering should I get this guy a Raptor HD for the OS and games? Then a standard drive for storage etc..? Does it much of a difference?

Any insight greatly appreciated..

Thanks..

Solitaire

Okay, first problem:

Core i7 Gaming Rig!!

Unless you have a very good reason for it then using any i7 CPU in a high-end gaming rig borders on an obscene waste of money. The only affordable one is the i7-920, which is no better than an old Q6700 for games. In a really high-end rig you'd need to OC it just so it can keep pace. If you're gaming then drop down to LGA775. If you're adamant about DDR3 then go AM3. LGA1366 only gives big boosts to hardcore applications usage.

If you switch to either of the above then drop in 2x2GB RAM and just stick with 32bit until Win7 comes out. If you insist on LGA1366 then get 3x2GB and get Vista 64 or risk the bugs and go for the Win7 64bit trial until release.

1920*1080 is full 1080p HD regardless of screen size. HD4890XT (900/4000MHz) is a decent fit but if you want best-of-the-best go for the cheapest HD4870X2 2GB (1GB per GPU) you can find. BTW HD4870X2 is CrossFire-in-a-can (two graphics cards on one board ) GTX275 isn't that great against HD4890XT unless you want the CUDA for apps (PhysX is a joke) and GTX285 is too overpriced to compete with HD4890/GTX275 on one hand and HD4870X2 on the other.

Any 1kW PSU is overkill for 99.9999% of builds. What you really need depends on what platform you end up going with and what graphics cards you get. Even CFd, OCd HD4890s (hungrier than a single HD4870X2!) on top of an OCd i7 wouldn't need any more than an 850W PSU at the bleeding edge - possibly getting away with a good 750W unit.

Outkast_IRE

Im a gamer and iv had vista 64 bit for a few years now i think iv only had one bug in all that time i had much more hassle with xp over the years.
Agree with the point tho why go with the i7 its not worth it yet .
I use 8gb of Ram with vista 64 and its sweet put it this way i could be on my comp for hours playing games etc and the hard drives shut down a lot of the time cause they arent accessed often enough

techguy

Thats great advice...

I'm pretty surprised at the response to i7.. that is the second time i've been told I don't need it..(last time was for graphics rendering). I thought they would be the two most demanding applications in computing. Just out of curiosity. What applications would require an i7 ??

Ok, Suppose I go down to LGA775 with the Q6700.. can I still go 64 Bit and use >3.2GB RAM? Or is that also overkill?

Would the build you recommend eat up crysis and the likes, giving ~50fps at HD resolution?? I'd be aiming for at least that with this rig!

Also, would I be daft to just go for the full fledged i7 rig and, dare I say it be future proofed for the next next year or 2 with regards games release??

I just don't want to build a rig good for todays games..I want it to be able to play future release pretty well also. This guy won't be too impressed if he can't play the latest GPU intensive FPS in 12-16 months time.. You know what I mean ??

mus3

techguy wrote: »

Thats great advice...

I'm pretty surprised at the response to i7.. that is the second time i've been told I don't need it..(last time was for graphics rendering). I thought they would be the two most demanding applications in computing. Just out of curiosity. What applications would require an i7 ??

Hmm... graphics rendering should get a great boost from an i7, but yes gaming, not so much on the whole. I think that there a few exceptions like GTA4 as that was built for the multi-core PS3: multi-core app + i7 = :eek:

techguy wrote: »

Ok, Suppose I go down to LGA775 with the Q6700.. can I still go 64 Bit and use >3.2GB RAM? Or is that also overkill?

You can, yup. RAM is so cheap anyways, there's no reason not to go 4GB+. Most i7 builds have 3x2GB. Windows will find a use for it!

techguy wrote: »

Also, would I be daft to just go for the full fledged i7 rig and, dare I say it be future proofed for the next next year or 2 with regards games release??

I just don't want to build a rig good for todays games..I want it to be able to play future release pretty well also. This guy won't be too impressed if he can't play the latest GPU intensive FPS in 12-16 months time.. You know what I mean ??

Maybe... the GPU is obviously the most important thing in gaming, and so for a gaming rig, an i7 is probably not worth the considerable added expense. You'll def still be able to play new games in 18 months with today's high-end graphics cards, just not at the highest settings.

Outkast_IRE

Well i do agree with you to an extent getting the latest possible hardware will help future proof for a few years.
I bought my rig 12 months ago spent 1500 its runs every game no problem on high resolutions and it will for another good while.
if i have advice its this
Buy the best motherboard you can afford check up reviews of your chosen board especially if its just released within the last month or two and be aware of possible bugs with it.
Spend big on graphics its always worth it i always buy ATI but thats personal prefrence i find they are good for their driver updates and support.
If you go 64bit which you should get a good amount of low latency ram , iv bought "gskill" ram a few times are they are usually very good.
I got a thermal take case and i must say they are good to work with great space for fans etc .

Solitaire

mus3 wrote:

I think that there a few exceptions like GTA4 as that was built for the multi-core PS3

The problem is that GTA4 (and possibly future PS3 ports) are the only massively-multithreaded games and thus are the only ones to benefit from more than two CPU cores. The i7's argument falls flat here as well now: games can't take advantage of (and are usually slowed down by) HyperThreading so while apps can run 8 threads on the i7, GTA4 on a i7-920 @ 2.66GHz = GTA4 on a Q6700 @ 2.66GHz If the same machine was to be used as a heavy-duty server/workstation then I'd say different but the price-to-performance premium pretty much freezes the i7 out of the gaming segment.

And bearing all that in mind the best solution is a fast dual-core if you like to live dangerously or a tri-core AM3 if you want more futureproofing. For everything except GTA4 E8400 @ 3GHz*2 cores >> Q6700 @ 2.66GHz*4 cores. And the E8400 is cheaper.

requiem1

all this hating of i7 for gaming all came off the back of the CEO of Nvidia saying that i7 shows no performance increase in any games in comparision with a core 2 quad....he got disproved around a week later and started backtracking saying that a core i7 920@stock offered no performance boost over an overclockers Core2quad extreme.

In the same way that buying a top end graphics card can be overkill on current games, i7 is classified as overkill for gaming. However, games will get more detailed and already were seeing games that have been optimised for 4 cores plus HT.

You can save the money now but realistically if you have the money spend it but make smart choices i.e buy an i7 920 and not a 940 or above.

I've seen hundreds of guys on other forms telling everyone else not to buy i7 rigs and then looking for advice on an i7 build in the next thread.

techguy

Ok guys..

I'ev spoken to my friend and he says he wants the best technology at the moment. The budget is €1,700.

I've thrown together a new rig here that I would consider to be final but I am asking for ye're advice on the RAM and motherboard, are they ok? If not then what is, can't afford anything more expensive btw.

I think everything else is ok.

I think I will take the lay way out and get them to build it for me.. Is this the service I am looking for? Does it include OS install or is that another 30 Bob?

Question about keyboards.. I want to get him a logitech G15 but I noticed it is the german localisation that they sell. Do the do the english/euro layout or should I just buy that here in Ireland..?

Oh and as an aside does any body know anything about printers..? This guy wants a colour laser but I thought a printer/scanne combo would be best.
What about this one? It seems cheap enough, I like HP and it won't be doing much work really..just a few pages here an there really. Oh and whats best for printing Photos? I read somewhere that inkjet are but surely thats wrong?

Does anybody have any idea of the cost of shipping this? Would it be standard 30 or would it be near 60? I suppose as long as its < €100 its not really that bad as that Computer case is 18kg :eek: and the printer 11kg..

Thanks for all the advice guys..really helpful stuff!

Effluo

We can't view your build, links to hardwareversand.de don't work that way...

techguy

Effluo wrote: »

We can't view your build, links to hardwareversand.de don't work that way...

Thats odd are you sure? Because I just tried the link on another computer and it's fine..

Ok, well i've added a screenshot also..What do you think??

Outkast_IRE

lot of cash for a printer that will barely be used . I got a Canon printer scanner for 60 euro and it works perfect for all the usual bits

techguy

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

lot of cash for a printer that will barely be used . I got a Canon printer scanner for 60 euro and it works perfect for all the usual bits

Was that a laser or an inkjet? I think laser is better really.. A lot more economical methinks!! Am I wrong??

Effluo

You should get the 4870X2 here save you a nice wee bit!

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-118-XF

extra-ordinary_

i7 vs C2Q

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=47&p2=50


If you use 2 x RAM modules you won't be utilising the triple channel bandwidth that this board supports. I would buy 3 modules whatever the size.

Solitaire

Aside from Far Cry 2 (which seems to either be MMT or got benched wrong on the i7 - not the first time Anand's testing skillz have been criticized) that X3-720BE that is half the price (CPU or platform) seems pretty much neck-and-neck in the few gaming benches available

mus3

techguy wrote: »

Was that a laser or an inkjet? I think laser is better really.. A lot more economical methinks!! Am I wrong??

While you're not wrong (laser printers are generally much much cheaper per page), if it is only going to be used for a few pages now and again, a nice cheap printer will do just as good a job and cost a lot less!

That RAM is also overkill unless you do some extreme overclocking. This'll do the job nicely! You'll also get some extra triple channel goodness

This is just a suggestion, but SSDs are at the point now where they are viable for high-end rigs and do bring some good performance benefits, and if you wanted you could get a ~€60 printer which would be good enough, get the GPU as above, go with the cheaper memory, and get a ~€200 60GB Ocz Vertex, or a ~€300 Intel X25-M. It does somewhat improve game performance, but it just improves the overall feel and snappiness of the computer, especially when multi-tasking
A nice X25-M review.
It might be seen as a bit extravagant, but something to think about!

mus3

Solitaire wrote: »

Aside from Far Cry 2 (which seems to either be MMT or got benched wrong on the i7 - not the first time Anand's testing skillz have been criticized) that X3-720BE that is half the price (CPU or platform) seems pretty much neck-and-neck in the few gaming benches available

It's a good point, there does seem to be a lot of overkill there. Unless you are going to be doing something else extensively that emphasises the i7's strengths, it's not worth it. I got it for video encoding, where there is an obvious improvement over the C2D, but I suppose there was also an element of new and shiny about it too that was impossible to resist!

Edit: The Windows 7 RC is out now, and seems super stable. So getting that now for free now, and buying it when it comes out in the Autumn is another viable option that'd save €88 now, and save any upgrade fees later. Win win!

Effluo

mus3 wrote: »

Edit: The Windows 7 RC is out now, and seems super stable. So getting that now for free now, and buying it when it comes out in the Autumn is another viable option that'd save €88 now, and save any upgrade fees later. Win win!

Yeah this seems really interesting!!!
I'm going to the os forums

towel401

techguy wrote: »

Was that a laser or an inkjet? I think laser is better really.. A lot more economical methinks!! Am I wrong??

maybe the re-fills cost more but the laser is a simpler mechanism. i'm sick of inkjets dieing after 6 months. I re-filled the cartridge in mine - messy job most Dubs wouldn't have the patience for it but works out much cheaper then.

all printers inkjet and laser these days are sold under the 'razor blade' business model

techguy

towel401 wrote:

most Dubs wouldn't have the patience for it but works out much cheaper then.

towel401 wrote:

all printers inkjet and laser these days are sold under the 'razor blade' business model

LOL!!

@Mus3 .. That ram you suggested is more expensive than what I had chosen and there is less.. Note that I had 2 4GB kits selected.

I'll suggest the SSD choice and the idea of an inkjet printer. TBH I don't think there will be that much printing done.

@Effluo .. I had selected the 4870X2.. I'm usually an nvidia man but ATI have been getting some good press lately over that card so it may be time to change!!

And in general, my mate wants the latest and greatest technology so it will have to be a core i7.

I think I will go with Vista 64Bit because I think Windows 7 may be very buggy on initial release and I won't be available to help him with issues that may arise.

Does anybody know if hardwareversand have changed the methods of payment? The last time I orderd I did a int. money transfer with 365 online but now they don't display the bank details on their site but instead they have some online bank system "T-Online" maybe it was pay in advance I used, where they send you the bank details after your order has been sent.??

kfish2oo2

8 gigs of RAM is overkill. The tri-channel kit that mus3 suggested would perform much better than the 8 gigs you picked, as the tri-kit will fully utilise the three channels on all Core-i7 boards resulting in better r/w times.

That printer is most definatelt overkill too - unless your friend wants to print chemist-quality super high quality photos, there's absolutely no point in buying such an expensive printer. My parents bought a nice HP not too long ago, only €100 and perfect quality for the scanning/photo printing they do.

Finally, the case. I'm not a bit Thermaltake fan... Granted, they make good cases, but they pack them with so much waste material and make them so bulky that I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I'd recommend an Antec 1200, and Antec P182 (a modders favourite, that one), or this Coolermaster.

kaimera

8 gigs of RAM is overkill

go for 12 (6*2 or 3*4) for tri-channel...12gigs is cheap as nuts these days tbh.

Solitaire

Top-end build and no BluRay?

kaimera wrote:

go for 12 (6*2 or 3*4) for tri-channel...12gigs is cheap as nuts these days tbh.

12 gigs of decent-quality DDR3 sure as hell ain't cheap as nuts these days - unless the nuts were 500-carat diamonds or something :P

3x4GB is rare and expensive as hell. 6x2GB is still the best part of €200 and many mobos don't really like having every one of their DIMM slots filled simultaneously. Even the naffest 1066MHz DDR3 is over €150 for 12GB... and all of it is utter overkill if you're not buying a €5000 super-rig with a water-cooled i7-965/975EE and dual GTX295 Just go with 3x2GB DDR3-1600MHz, its more than enough.


Anyway, the Xaser is out of stock and so not-worth nearly €200 - you can get a HAF-922 for under €100 and that includes two silent 200mm fans on top of a 120mm. If you really need an EATX maxi-tower there's far better - in fact the saving might be so big you'd be better off getting a decent Silverstone or the Antec 1200 from Komplett...

That HD4870X2 should be under €300, if there are no deals on HWVS you're better of buying from Pixmania/OCUK/Novatech even with the added shipping.

Amd why are you getting such a big case and a i7-920 when you fail to list an aftermarket cooler? Ask HWVS for a D0-stepping i7-920 and they'll try to get you one; add something like a Xigmatech S1283 and a (sold seperately) LGA1366 mounting kit for it to your build.

Oh, and that PSU is way overkill if you're not adding a second HD4870X2...