No charter broken but still banned!! 3 month ban!!

ivanthehunter

Have been very busy with new wife!! so i have been unable to complain about this ban till now.:rolleyes:

I have been banned from the Shooting Forum and all sub forums contained within.

To put it plainly, I was banned because i made a statement that, "the minister (TD) should consider legalizing bow hunting" or words to that effect..

See Post No20 in http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055482836&highlight=reduce+firearm+numbers

The post (no 20) was relevant to the OP (Which BTW was by me), it contained no abusive material, no illegal activities were condoned or encouraged. I simple asked that if the ministers was reading, that he might consider the possibility of legalizing bow hunting.

This is not the first time that members here have Posted on subjects that are currently illegal but that they hope might be legalized in due course. Constant posting on reloading (currently illegal) is found through out the shooting forum and moderator are often involved and are generally in favor of the (hopefully one day) legalization of such activities. Discussions often drift toward a point where even the policies behind the laws are quested and posters place there own POV.

I was dumbfounded with disbelief when i received a 3 month ban as i never broke any charter!




A couple of other posters posted threads on bow hunting related subjects prior to my banning and some have been posted after my banning- but i was warned not to post any subjects on bow hunting. How is it that i am forbidden to post on this subject and other are not---- something stinks here!



Please help if you can.. I feel hard done by TBH.



Background info

Firstly i have several infraction to my name.. Some i deserved and some i did not as the moderator in question has no sense of humor.

I have only one infarction from the other four moderator that watch the shooting forum. All the rest are from one particular moderator;)



Please read the following with an open mind!!!!! and use your general knowledge to answer the puzzel below as this is key to the whole debate!!

Please complete the following sentence. If bows fire arrows then crossbows fire what????

Arrows from bows and bolts from crossbows

One of my notorious posts was on the legality of crossbow hunting in Ireland,
If you read the law (1976 wildlife act) you will come across a section which states:Certain use of traps, snares etc. prohibited. 34.—(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to section 42, a person shall not—

[GA] ( a ) hunt any wild bird or wild mammal by means of a trap, snare, net, line, hook, arrow, dart, spear or similar device, instrument or missile, or birdlime or any substance of a like nature, or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying bait, or

See Link Below
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0034.html#zza39y1976s34

So What! Well guns fire missiles,--yes!! and you can legally hunt with them once you have a licence to do so as anything once licenced is legal!!!

As for the section on Traps snares and nets, these are all legal as long as they are the approved type!!

As for arrows! well my POV is that crossbows don't fire arrows and as crossbows are firearms they can be licenced for hunting.. Now i received several infarctions for saying as much..

I received an infraction as below and it was this infraction that set the standard and predisposed to a (unfair)gagging order on the subject of 'legality of crossbow hunting in Ireland', which i abided by, that is until the moderator took as quick look at the above post and seen the word bow and issued me with an hasty penalty for no real reason, i can only assume that, as has happened before, he failed to correctly read the post...:mad:

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BELOW:::: Infarction copied from PM box

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From PM
You have received an infraction at boards.ie
________________________________________
Dear ivanthehunter,

You have received an infraction at boards.ie.

Reason: Breach of Forum Charter

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Deliberately misinforming !so that they will break the law is not something we're going to tolerate here. It could possibly open boards.ie up to legal liability; it does decrease the worth of the shooting forum.
Start this topic (hunting with crossbows) again in any Shooting forum and you will be permanently banned without delay. Purple from Moderator

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This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58688961
Quote: Red = Ivan Text!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrpc
They are also restricted. This means (when implemented) that the Garda Commissioner is the licensing authority.
Which is ridiculous.
PS the legislation does not directly say that crossbows are banned from hunting, in fact it makes not specific reference to them. The 1976 wildlife act does say that is is forbidden to harm any animal with an arrow-- but as crossbows don't fire arrows then technically this law is irrelevant to cross bows... (but you'd have to take your chances that a judge will see things the same as you(and me ))

You have to have some great justification for owning one, PM me if you wish

Ivan.

PS there are currently 11 EU countries that allow bow hunting so there is no harm in training for a legit trip.. Hopefully Scotland will reintroduce bow hunting fro Deer in 2011, this has a 2 fold reason #1 to control Roe population and #2 To increase Agri-tourism..

Bow hunting is real hunting!!!!
All the best,
boards.ie

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A PM

How can it be that in the above quote I am accused of "Deliberately misinforming others so that they will break the law"!! when i make deliberate reference to the judges POV, to what the law actually states and to the great justification that would be required legally before one would be issued via a licence..
remember that these are firearm and as such they come with strict guild-lines that require the owner/user to declare any particular use of firearm prior to licencing. ie hunting or Target shooting.

Do i have to re-write the whole rule book any time i make a small statement and back it up with terms and conditions or provide a link to the small-print.com Ha:D


I'll leave it in your hands and i thank any one who took the time to read through this as it can't be easy to get your head around. I will say that i have enjoyed posting in the shooting forum and i have personal added some 700 posts to that one area and i hope to add more when this minor issue is resolved..

Sparks

Firstly, yes, I have no sense of humour.

Secondly, Ivan eliminated all leeway with all four Shooting forum moderators through a long campaign of seeing just how close he could walk to the line of the charter and just how far over it he could step before we'd haul him up on it. We got sick of that. Our job as moderator is not to raise an unruly adolescent into a polite adult.

Thirdly, Ivan's penchant for discussing bow hunting in Ireland has been extensively indulged, to the point where it has become a joke for him. The simple fact is that it is not legal to hunt with a bow in Ireland. Digging through the semantics of the law is something we would happily leave to Ivan to do on his own time, and if he establishes a new legal precedent in the High Court, we'll congratulate him and start discussing bow hunting in Ireland quite openly in the Hunting forum and even thank him for the tens of thousands of euro such an action would have cost him in legal fees. Right now, however, it is illegal and Ivan's constant arguing that it is not because the law says 'arrow' instead of 'bolt' or some other such argument is simply not welcome lest it encourage someone to actually go and do that - and then sue boards.ie for the tort of Negligent Misstatement. Ivan was warned about this by PM repeatedly, finally being advised that any further mention of this topic in the forum would lead to a long ban (we actually said permanent, but we're fairly reluctant to ban even repeat offenders permanently, though in Ivans case, all four mods did consider it at length). He then brought up the topic again after a period (during which we believe he expected that the moderators would have forgotten this PM) and so he was banned for three months.

ivanthehunter

ATT;HELP DESK
The issue here is quite simple, I was unfairly banned after i asked the Minister (powers that be) to consider legalising bow hunting. Now this moderator is trying to claim that i advocated illegal actions via this question..


Its only goes to show that this moderator is either over-worked! or being deliberately unfair or unable to understand the issue or perhaps he is too involved in the actual forums as a poster to be able to act as a moderator(IMO see his 13,000 plus posts). As a result of his action it is obvious that i had no choice but to turn to the help desk as he refused to answer any PM's on the issue. This is not the first time that i have hit a brick wall with this mod. AFAI can see he has no ability to retract on any decisions (which he knows to be bad calls) and IMO he is not only devoid of humour(as he proclaimed proudly) but is also lacking in any degree of humility



To put an answer to you, Sparks.

Sparks wrote: »

Firstly, yes, I have no sense of humour.

.

You know the sad part about that is that tonight I had a quick look back over the shooting forum and i was disappointed to see that most of the posters from a year ago were not really bothered with posting anymore as the forum is devoid of any humour and is too clinical for most, they tell me that is over moderated by one particular moderator!! No sense of humour and no shame admitting it!!

Sparks wrote: »

Unruly adolescent.

Name Calling?? I resent your comments as they are against all charter rules, attack the post not the poster!!!! Shame on you and you call your self a moderator!
You know that you gave me infractions for less!cheek!

Sparks wrote: »

[url=http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php[QUOTE?t=2055235928]to the point where it has become a joke for him[/url]. The simple fact is that it is not legal to hunt with a bow in Ireland.

Nobody made such a claim as it clearly is illegal to bow hunt in Ireland, however crossbows are not the same as bow!! Please try and stay abreast of the small detail that you continuously avoid either knowingly or unwittingly either way its rather annoying. In relation to the link, wheres the harm in this debate. Nothing wrong with it, again plenty of ref to the legal issues in that post--Good Debate-you should try some!!

Sparks wrote: »

Digging through the semantics of the law is something we would happily leave to Ivan to do on his own time, and if he establishes a new legal precedent in the High Court, we'll congratulate him and start discussing bow hunting in Ireland quite openly in the Hunting forum and even thank him for the tens of thousands of euro such an action would have cost him in legal fees. Right now, however, it is illegal and Ivan's constant arguing that it is not because the law says 'arrow' instead of 'bolt' or some other such argument is simply not welcome lest it encourage someone to actually go and do that - and then sue boards.ie for the tort of Negligent Misstatement. .

When i say it is legal, it is! in theory in terms of the wording as per the statute book (IMO)as it is currently written. That being a separate issue, it is still only a legal act if one secures the relevant licence for the particular firearm and they secure the relevant hunting licence.
So it is obvious that I am not encouraging any illegal activity. I only made a statement as to the exact wording within the law. I neither encouraged illegal activity or hinted at it in relation to bow hunting or crossbow hunting.

Sparks wrote: »

Ivan was warned about this by PM repeatedly, finally being advised that any further mention of this topic in the forum would lead to a long ban (we actually said permanent, but we're fairly reluctant to ban even repeat offenders permanently, though in Ivan's case, all four mods did consider it at length). He then brought up the topic again after a period (during which we believe he expected that the moderators would have forgotten this PM) and so he was banned for three months.

OK you threatened me with a three month ban in order to secure my silence. It was when i got the three month ban that you threatened me (banned already) with a reconsideration to a permanent after discussion with your fellow mods. I might add that if this discussion ever took place then all of your fellow mods failed to see the blinding gap between the OP and the previous posts about--arrows verses bolt

Again, here you have failed to understand anything in stated in the OP. You alone personally placed your topic specific restrictions on me (is that allowed?) and you made reference to past posts in which i had posted on the subject of the arrow verses the bolt as you have posted here! But in the post for which i received a 3 month ban i made no such reference to any such legal conundrum about bolts and arrows.

Now heres the real annoying part.
I made a request that, if he minister was reading, than he might consider legalising bow hunting (as opposed to crossbow-n different issue altogether) in Ireland as a realistic alternative to rifle hunting and therefore as a long-term proactive government step to wards a reduction in the number of firearms with in the state!!

NOW
Now can you really justify your ban? where do you see any thing that might encourage any activity at-all whether it be legal or otherwise!!! within the post i was punished for! Please do show us!
I simple asked the minster to consider the issue---- and you banned me! Thats an unfair move,

Why don’t you ban people who discuss reloading (currently illegal) or shooting muntjac(thats a small deer to you) with smaller calibers that stated in the government SI’s while your banning me..

Vegeta

As a summary for the SMods.

Poster told not to post on a certain topic, poster ignores the warning and gets a ban.

Ivan, come on lad, you were given a clear warning not to post about the topic and you did, you were told you'd get a ban and you did. It's hardly a big shock or surprise.

BuffyBot

From what I'm reading, that seems a fair assesment Vegeta.

Ivan - do you understand that your behaviour can have a cumilative effect?

ivanthehunter

Vegeta wrote: »

As a summary for the SMods.

Poster told not to post on a certain topic, poster ignores the warning and gets a ban.

Ivan, come on lad, you were given a clear warning not to post about the topic and you did, you were told you'd get a ban and you did. It's hardly a big shock or surprise.

Come oh Vegeta, Thats not the case.

Two separate issues--one concerns a licensable firearm (crossbows) and the other does not require a licensable Tool (ie a long bow or compound bow )

That like warning me not to discuss shot guns and then banning me for talking about rifles!!!!! How hard is it to fathom that these are separate issues!!!!!!

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Originally I was warned to can posts about my interpretation of the legal issues surrounding the bow & Arrow verses the Crossbow and Bolt debate.
And on this issue i was warned and I dropped it!!!..


I was banned simply for asking the minister (if he was reading) to consider the legalisation of bow hunting!!!!

BuffyBot wrote: »

.From what I'm reading, that seems a fair assesment Vegeta.

Ivan - do you understand that your behaviour can have a cumilative effect?

Yes i do understand cumulative effect but i had been warned about a completely different subject!!! Namely my take on the law as i see how it related to crossbows. Don't forget that i was banned for asking a completely different question infact it was no even a question but a statement that the minster should consider bow hunting as an alternative to Guns.

Threatened for make views on law! but banned for asking the minister to consider lifting a legal ban Come BB the difference couldn't be more obvious..



Its seems unbelievable that there are mods in the shooting forum that cant distinguish between one making a statement and one making a plea to the minster, never mind the fact that these two subjects are in no way related...whether that be through hardware or surrounding legal requirements..

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Why don’t you ban people who discuss reloading (currently illegal)

Because it isn't illegal at the moment (this has been tested in court) and because it's being discussed by the Department of Justice from the point of view of updating the regulation that applies to it.

or shooting muntjac(thats a small deer to you) with smaller calibers that stated in the government SI’s

Because once it's pointed out to them that the law says you have to use a deer calibre on them (if they're even really here which is still a matter of contention), the posters involved don't sit there for weeks arguing that because the law says 'round' and not 'bullet', that it doesn't apply to them.

Ivan, you were told the topic of bow hunting was not to be raised again. It's illegal; we (and the archery mods) had several long threads discussing it, and the relevant legislation that makes it illegal was cited and discussed at length; you continued to insist that it didn't apply because you didn't agree with the terminology used in the Bill (and broke the charter in Archery trying to bring it up there after that thread); you were told by PM, after a lot of leeway, that the topic was to be dropped and not taken up again; you tried raising it again; you got banned.

You were also warned before about how cumulative, constant small infractions would get you banned as much as a single large infraction:

Last warning Ivan, quit pushing. We've had to delete far too many of your posts and waste far too much time on your stuff over the last few days. I've no compunction about banning you for a lot of small little things that add up, any more than I'd have compunction about banning you for one large thing. You're constantly trolling in here and it's gone past the stage where it was tolerable.

The simple fact is that you were taking up more moderator time than every other poster in the forum put together. And you were doing that for some time and eventually we told you that enough was enough, and you didn't listen.

ivanthehunter

ATT HELP DESK!

Is it not plain to see that a simple issue exists here?

Firstly
I was told to stop posting comments on my particular view in one issue and i did and even if i was punished for this, i'd except the punishment.

BUT

Secondly I was punished for for a completely different issue that had nothing to do with my views on the legality of crossbow bolts.

I was punished for asking the minister to consider allowing bow hunting...




Its plainly obvious that this mod fails to see the difference of the above and i question he modding ability!!!

All i can say is that this mod has no time for me and likes to try and annoy me at every corner, he has attacked several posts of mine even some light hearted funny one, as he did no like the content... he believes that the shooting forum is his own domain and seems to treat it as so.

He often post on a subject as a normal poster but when its not going he way he steps in as a mod..

The text below is for sparks...



ATT SPARKS

Sparks wrote: »

Because it isn't illegal at the moment
.

So is it illegal to ask the minister to consider allowing bow hunting!

Sparks wrote: »

really here which is still a matter of contention), the posters involved don't sit there for weeks arguing that because the law says 'round' and not 'bullet', that it doesn't apply to them.
.

This has nothing to do with the current issue!!!

PS Its not my fault that the law is not water tight in this area, the pure fact that it is obviously not water tight and your failure to admit that simply points to your own personal view As you have no interest in hunting!! and no knowledge about it save for the law!! or what perceive it to say!!

Sparks wrote: »

Ivan, you were told the topic of bow hunting was not to be raised again. It's illegal;

Again your trying to tell me that asking the minister to consider the possibility is also illegal????

Sparks wrote: »

.
The simple fact is that you were taking up more moderator time than every other poster in the forum put together. And you were doing that for some time and eventually we told you that enough was enough, and you didn't listen.

Really it just seems to be your time that i take up!!! isn't it!!

You have been busting my ball since i decided to stand up to you!!
Your never wrong are you!
and you don't care how you reactions to me are viewed by other posters!! and they have all noticed...

BuffyBot

ivanthehunter wrote: »

ATT HELP DESK!

Yeah, that doesn't help.

Is it not plain to see that a simple issue exists here?

There is an issue. You've consistantly proven yourself to be a disruptive influence on that forum. You got yourself banned and now you're determined to try and shift the blame on to anyone but yourself.

It doesn't wash, and I'm not going to overturn the ban.