I'm really starting to hate meat

cozmik

seamus wrote: »

"If I thought about what happened to this cow to get it onto my plate, I'd probably never eat meat again."

In other words they know what goes on is pretty gruesome but they choose not to think about it because they would rather keep eating meat.

Slaphead07

that's pretty much the same words.

cozmik

And yet seamus maintains meat eaters are not aware of the gruesome side.

Actually what you said was that meat eaters are "under no illusions about what we are eating". I beg to differ....

...they're even happier when they don't know exactly what these dirty jobs are or what they entail.

seamus

cozmik wrote: »

In other words they know what goes on is pretty gruesome but they choose not to think about it because they would rather keep eating meat.

Yes, they know it's pretty gruesome, but don't actually know what happens - that's the "illusion" we're referring to here.

cozmik

seamus wrote: »

Yes, they know it's pretty gruesome, but don't actually know what happens -

here

Abattoir workers humanely kill animals, and prepare carcasses for sale and transportation to butchers and other buyers. There are three main areas of work.

These are:
the unloading and moving of livestock
the slaughtering of animals
the preparation of carcasses and handling of by-products, such as hide and intestines.


Cattle, sheep, pigs and chickens are the animals most frequently slaughtered.

Animals are unloaded from lorries into lairages (pre-slaughter pens). From the lairage, animals are moved to the stunning pen. Here, the abattoir worker stuns the animal, using a pistol, gas or electric current. This stops the animal from feeling pain. After stunning, the animal is killed immediately.

Blood is drained from the animal and the hide, skin or hair is removed. Internal organs and intestines are taken out. The carcass is then split and placed in a chiller.

Chickens are hung on an assembly line for slaughter, and their heads removed.

Finally, abattoir workers wash down the pens, tools and equipment.

http://www.careers-scotland.org.uk/CareerInformation/Occupations/Manufacturing/FoodandDrink/AbattoirWorker.asp

I'm still perfectly comfortable about eating meat and you know why? because as I said those animals are there for our consumption and that's all there is to it.

Slaphead07

cozmik wrote: »

those animals are there for our consumption and that's all there is to it.

You're wrong. Again. Prossibly always.

boodlesdoodles

I have a question to the vegetarians/vegans who've replied to this thread. Does your vegetarianism affect all parts of your life? For example, do leather shoes, bags, or any other byproducts of the meat industry have a place in your homes? I eat meat, that's my choice, much the same as a vegetarian has their reasons for their choice. Thanks.

Slaphead07

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

I have a question to the vegetarians/vegans who've replied to this thread. Does your vegetarianism affect all parts of your life? For example, do leather shoes, bags, or any other byproducts of the meat industry have a place in your homes? I eat meat, that's my choice, much the same as a vegetarian has their reasons for their choice. Thanks.

there isn't a rule book. Everybody answers to their own conscience (which is why we're vegetarian!). I wear leather shoes & belts because I can't find any real alternatives. I don't wear leather jackets or use leather bags. I avoid geletine or other 'sneaky' meat products but Guinness or red wine are fine.
In short it doesn't "affect all parts of your life" but there might be aspects of it affected.

cozmik

Slaphead07 wrote: »

You're wrong. Again. Prossibly always.

Wow, Great rebuttal, Slaphead07, did you construct that counter-arguement all by yourself? LOL.

Silent Partner

cozmik wrote: »

here


as I said those animals are there for our consumption and that's all there is to it.

Hmmm. I disagree with you here. Those animals are not simply there for our consumption. We consume them because through hundreds and thousands of years we have developed the tools and resources to hunt or farm and kill these animals.
A cow was hardly born a cow so it could end up on someones plate. That is human design, not the cows destiny.
As with all things human, we have free will and I choose not to eat meat. You choose to eat it. Fair beans to you. I don't agree with your choice and you don't agree with mine. Who's right and wrong is irrelevant. We can have argue out each others points of view for another fifteen pages or so and probably both still be convinced of our original standing. You're right for you and I, as a vegetarian, am right for me.

Not a lot else to be said surely?

Min

When I see a lion, a Tiger, my cat or the fox that killed my ducks etc or even an owl I feel sick and believe they should all be shot, they eat meat that isn't even cooked, if only they thought about what they were doing, its so unnatural...............oh its natural I see, time for dinner and some meat and it will be cooked.......

Silent Partner

Min wrote: »

When I see a lion, a Tiger, my cat or the fox that killed my ducks etc or even an owl I feel sick and believe they should all be shot, they eat meat that isn't even cooked, if only they thought about what they were doing, its so unnatural...............oh its natural I see, time for dinner and some meat and it will be cooked.......

Animals hunt and kill other animals as it's innate. They were born with certain instincts and appendages such as razor sharp incisor teeth and claws. If you'll notice, the tiger or lion you speak of do so with no tools or external impliments.

However humans kill animals purely because we developed tools like spears and later cleavers etc. and we also developed farming techniques to rear animals for slaughter. This isn't natural instinct. You don't go out in a field, tackle a cow and rip out his flesh with your teeth when you fancy a steak. In fact, I'd love to see you try this. You go to the supermarket and pick one up from the shelf. This is not natural hunting ability. It's shopping.

cozmik

Silent Partner wrote: »

They were born with certain instincts

Man was also born with certain instincts

Silent Partner wrote: »

However humans kill animals purely because we developed tools like spears and later cleavers etc. and we also developed farming techniques to rear animals for slaughter. This isn't natural instinct.

We kill animals because we developed tools? lol eh no actually we kill animals because we wanted to eat them. What thought do you think entered Mans mind the first time he saw a cow?

I'll bet you anything it was "I wonder what it tastes like?" which I'm sure you'll agree is a very natural instinct for a MAN!

Min

Silent Partner wrote: »

Animals hunt and kill other animals as it's innate. They were born with certain instincts and appendages such as razor sharp incisor teeth and claws. If you'll notice, the tiger or lion you speak of do so with no tools or external impliments.

However humans kill animals purely because we developed tools like spears and later cleavers etc. and we also developed farming techniques to rear animals for slaughter. This isn't natural instinct. You don't go out in a field, tackle a cow and rip out his flesh with your teeth when you fancy a steak. In fact, I'd love to see you try this. You go to the supermarket and pick one up from the shelf. This is not natural hunting ability. It's shopping.

I can get a broiler (chicken) and kill it with my hands by wringing its neck. I could kill a calf if I wanted meat without tools but one wouldn't do that as it would be cruel when the calf could be reared and slaughtered for more meat in a humane way.

Humans are the most intelligent species on the planet, we are clever enough to be able to hunt/rare animals for food, it is this kind of thinking that has led to human populations growing to the extent that they have.

boodlesdoodles

Slaphead07 wrote: »

there isn't a rule book. Everybody answers to their own conscience (which is why we're vegetarian!). I wear leather shoes & belts because I can't find any real alternatives. I don't wear leather jackets or use leather bags. I avoid geletine or other 'sneaky' meat products but Guinness or red wine are fine.
In short it doesn't "affect all parts of your life" but there might be aspects of it affected.

But surely if you adapt a lifestyle that promotes a no-meat or cruelty to animals way of life that should translate across all aspects of your life? What gives a vegetarian/vegan the right to judge me or any one else whilst they're wearing leather shoes and keeping their pants up with a leather belt? Seems slightly two faced IMHO.

Slaphead07

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

But surely if you adapt a lifestyle that promotes a no-meat or cruelty to animals way of life that should translate across all aspects of your life?

First of all I haven't adopted a lifestyle. I simply don't eat meat. Secondly I'm not interested in promoting anything.

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

What gives a vegetarian/vegan the right to judge me or any one else whilst they're wearing leather shoes and keeping their pants up with a leather belt?

Who's judging you? Nobody has the right to do that and nobody here has said they have. Regardless of what they're wearing.

the OP said

However when I see people eating meat I see them eating a dead animal rather than food.

. That's just an honest admission not a judgement on anybody.

boodlesdoodles

Slaphead07 you're the only person to reply to the question I asked and I didn't mean to single you out as the spokesperson for all things veggie!! Just find it an interesting aspect to vegetarianism. I worked with a girl who was according to herself, a militant veggie, but bought leather shoes etc and would crib at the rest of us in the office for having some meat!! I just always found it incongruous she would berate us whilst heading off to BT's to buy some Gucci!!!

I'm seriously not trying to be controversial, I respect your choices, just curious. Hope you understand what I'm getting at

Slaphead07

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

I worked with a girl who was according to herself, a militant veggie, but bought leather shoes etc and would crib at the rest of us in the office for having some meat!! I just always found it incongruous she would berate us whilst heading off to BT's to buy some Gucci!!!

She sounds like a bit of a horrible person. As I said much earlier we all answer to our own conscience, hers doesn't include shoes (nor does mine) but she seems to feel she can judge others. Vegetarianism does not equal judgemental.

BurnsCarpenter

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

Slaphead07 you're the only person to reply to the question I asked and I didn't mean to single you out as the spokesperson for all things veggie!! Just find it an interesting aspect to vegetarianism. I worked with a girl who was according to herself, a militant veggie, but bought leather shoes etc and would crib at the rest of us in the office for having some meat!! I just always found it incongruous she would berate us whilst heading off to BT's to buy some Gucci!!!

I'm seriously not trying to be controversial, I respect your choices, just curious. Hope you understand what I'm getting at

She sounds like an idiot though. To describe yourself as a 'militant veggie' and to berate others, while wearing leather, is pretty stupid.

However, I don't see anything wrong with arguing a particular viewpoint while not adhering to it yourself. Before becoming a veggie I would have argued with friends that it was the right choice to make. Was I being a hypocrite? Possibly, but I don't remember deciding to be a perfect human being. It doesn't invalidate the argument.

I also find that most veggies don't really berate meat eaters - they just defend themselves when challenged.

Slaphead07

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

- they just defend themselves when challenged.

which is a few times a week. "How dare you think for yourself!"

cozmik

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

I also find that most veggies don't really berate meat eaters -

You're quite lucky, I have known many vegetarians who are on a crusade and very obnoxious about pointing out the ills of others eating habits.

Vegetarianism does not equal judgemental.

Vegetarianism wouldn't have gotten a reputation as being judgemental if there weren't some truth to it.

Slaphead07

cozmik wrote: »

Vegetarianism wouldn't have gotten a reputation as being judgemental if there weren't some truth to it.

I've heard the internet is full of cliché spouting morons.

cozmik

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I've heard the internet is full of cliché spouting morons.

Oooh a hostile vegetarian? Say it ain't so! LOL

-lala-

God, is this thread still here?

Right, vegetarians and vegans don't eat meat. However, we do NOT all moan about how meat is awful is all the time/ try to make meat eaters feel guilty, etc. If they're going to feel guilty, they'll feel guilty anyway, if they're not, they're not. We are not all hypocrites, a lot of us DON'T wear leather, etc. The vegetarians who are saying that they give out to people about eating meat are giving vegetarianism a bad name and making it seem like we are all horrible, self-righteous people. I'm a vegan and I would never moan to someone about their meat-eating - I wouldn't eat meat myself, but it's their choice. I wouldn't be too happy if they started complaining that what I'm eating makes them feel sick - and really, I don't buy the "oh, I can't stand to see someone eat meat" excuse. You see people eating meat every day, it's not as though it's a shock or anything. And cozmik, why are you posting in a vegetarian/vegan forum about why you hate vegetarians and vegans?

/rant over

Slaphead07

-lala- wrote: »

And cozmik, why are you posting in a vegetarian/vegan forum about why you hate vegetarians and vegans?

Cosmik = Troll. Do not feed the troll. Anything.

cozmik

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Cosmik = Troll. Do not feed the troll. Anything.

Slaphead07 = Slaphead

cozmik

-lala- wrote: »

And cozmik, why are you posting in a vegetarian/vegan forum about why you hate vegetarians and vegans?

/rant over

I don't hate vegetarians/vegans , but some here obviously hate me.

cozmik

-lala- wrote: »

I don't buy the "oh, I can't stand to see someone eat meat" excuse.

Neither do I.

-lala-

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Cosmik = Troll. Do not feed the troll. Anything.

You don't seem to have realised, but I was also ranting at you...

Slaphead07

-lala- wrote: »

You don't seem to have realised, but I was also ranting at you...

I do realise that but...

-lala- wrote: »

We are not all hypocrites, a lot of us DON'T wear leather, etc.

Is feeding the troll so I was going to let it go. That's exactly the sort of judgemental nonsense that embarrasses vegetarians (and vegans)

As I said earlier, I'll answer to my own conscience and nobody else's.