How far would you go to defend yourself & your home?

iMax

steof1984 wrote: »

<SNIP>

I don’t think you can answer honestly unless you have been in that situation. We can all say we would beat the living fcuk out of them but in all honestly some of us might actually kack ourselves.

Think about it. You’ve just been woken up and are walking around the house holding baseball bat or whatever you still don’t really expect to see anyone when you search those rooms (unless he is a really bad burglar and making loads of noise). So it will still be a shock when you see them. Where as they fully expect to see someone and come prepared to do whatever they have to to get away. They will have the upper hand straight away because they are mentally prepared for something to happen.

Even if you do catch them by surprise and beat the living fcuk out of them your still in a tough situation. They know where you live and the scum that break into houses are not the kinda people to just go “ ah that caught me. Win some, Loose some” there is potential that they will be back for revenge.

If they were just downstairs stealing telly’s etc then id probably give a shout and hope they get the scare and fcuk off with what they have gotten. Its only material stuff and is all replaceable. If they put me or my family in danger then I’d like to think I could go as far as is needed.

Now where did I put my Stealers Wheel tape.

QFT

Lots of bravado here but the law (while it is an ass) is quite clear The staircase is the defining line between threat to property (you can be done) and threat to life (you can be done but would most likely get off).

If you were to attack a burgler downstairs then the threat was to your property, if the burgler is on, or, up the stairs, then the threat is to life (yours or your family's). That's the difference.

I'm sure most people have a baseball bat or similiar within easy reach (baseball bat is an illegal weapon on it's own BTW, you have to have a ball & glove as well for it to be sports equipment). If you happenned to store your golf clubs in your bedroom or on the landing & used that to defend yourself, than there is doubt as to the intention to harm, however if you have a wheelbrace (or baseball bat on it's own) in your bedroom, who you trying to kid about it's intended use.

Our alarm went off a while back at about 4am & I jumped out of bed (stark naked) grabbed my bat, ran downstairs & disarmed the alarm. I checked the code & it was the kitchen window. I went in swinging wildly (& broke something in the process). turns out it was nothing but the adreniline got me because I had my wife & four month old daughter upstairs.

Thinking about it afterwards I potentially left them to fend for themselves if there was more than one burgler.

Best bet is to make as much noise as possible & call the gardai (screaming down the phone). Burglers don't want to be caught & don't want to come face to face with you. They want to get in & out. I have new for old insurance, chances are I'd be better off in the long run.

Toughest guy I knew was my grandfather, 5'5" & built like a brick ****house. The following is family folklore. I don't know how much of it is true but I really hope it all is...

They were broken into in the early 80s when he would have been in his 60s. He came downstairs in his vest & y fronts. Came face to face with the guy & punched him which knocked him out. He then stripped him & put the guy in the boot of his car & drove him up the dublin mountains, the guy was shouting at him the whole way but he never said a word.

When they got there the guy was shouting his head off how he was going to "get him" & he'd "regret it, I know people". Gramps. stopped the car & turned off the engine then got out of the car & had a smmoke. The guy was quiet all this time.

He opened the boot & pulled the guy out & told him if he ever met him again, he'd bring him up here again, but this time he wouldn't be going home. Punched him again (no ko this time) & then drove home & repaired the window.

Three days later the gardai knocked on the door & said "Excuse me sir, the man in the back of the car is reporting that you seriously assaulted him, kidnapped him & abandoned him in the mountains when he was burglarising the house". My gramps looked out at the guy (same one) shouted back in the kitchen, "Kathleen, were we burgled?"

My grandmother came out & said (with an oscar worthy performance) "No, why?"

Gardai said, "thank you sir" & walked off...

HashSlinging

I lock all the ground floor doors every night, its a habit. Dog it kept in doors also, (little miniature jack Russell (very territorial)) as an early warning system.

Manic Moran

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Complete BS :rolleyes:. How many reports have their been of people houses being broken into by scumbags with guns? And it's not like guns are hugely difficult to get for scumbags either.

Who cares?

If you're fighting fair, you've made a mistake. I'm going to have the odds stacked as much in my favour before the fight as possible.

They will have the upper hand straight away because they are mentally prepared for something to happen.

If you're walking around looking for trouble (which, I grant you, can be a questionable decision, but it's all METT-TC dependant, as the Army says), you should be even more prepared than he is. After all, confrontation is usually likely than hiding and calling 999. If you're not prepared for the event, don't go wandering around your house, just hole up at the top of the stairs.

NTM

AnonoBoy

Athlone probably, maybe a few miles more.

CiaranC

Another thread full of Walter Mittys

Kiith

Biggins wrote: »

What ever it takes to keep my wife and kids safe. No if's or buts - no hesitations.

+1 (although i dont have a wife or kids)

the_syco

iMax wrote: »

Lots of bravado here but the law (while it is an ass) is quite clear The staircase is the defining line between threat to property (you can be done) and threat to life (you can be done but would most likely get off).

So if you're in a one floor house, like a bungalow, you're f**ked, yeah?

iMax wrote: »

Our alarm went off a while back at about 4am & I jumped out of bed (stark naked) grabbed my bat, ran downstairs & disarmed the alarm. I checked the code & it was the kitchen window. I went in swinging wildly (& broke something in the process).

When the alarm doesn't arm at 4am, I grab a knife, and check all the windows, doors, etc. Waiting at the top of the stairs never enters my train of thought.

=-=

Unless you beat them to a pulp at the top of the stairs, there'll be no proof that they even came up the stairs, thus you face time behind bars. You get surprised whilst watching TV, and the route to the stairs is blocked, and you defend yourself, you face time behind bars. You beat them to a pulp, put them into the boot of your car, and drop them off with half a roll of duct tap, you'll probably still face time behind bars.

Moral of the story: dead men don't tell tales. Anything else, you'll face time behind bars.

Manic Moran

Lots of bravado here but the law (while it is an ass) is quite clear The staircase is the defining line between threat to property (you can be done) and threat to life (you can be done but would most likely get off).

Unless something has happened in the last couple of years (Which is quite possible), the current controlling authority on the matter should be DPP v Barnes. There is no such delineation mentioned in the judgement. It's a simple "Inside your home or not inside your home" distinction. Indeed, the Judge observes that the law is so much in the favour of the homeowner that if Common Law still held, you would be entitled to kill a burglar simply for being a burglar within your own house. Of course, it no longer still holds due to the Constitutional provisions about life, but he does basically point out that an appropriate level of force, to include deadly if required, is quite acceptable as long as the burglar is within your home.

That's before you get to the obvious retort of "What if you live in a bungalow?"

NTM

johnny_knoxvile

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

Lot of keyboard warrior answers here. realistically it's not as easy to say 'I would beat the head off them' because it just wont happen. you are after waking from a nice sleep probly still in your boxers and they will be geared up, probably with a weapon. not a chance will they take a slap without getting in a violent scrap. unless you can handle yourself call the police and make noise, put clothes on.

alternatively call 'the citizen'.

it's not easy to say you would do this or that, but most people defending their families would fight like hell. I don't think it's people being keyboard warrior to be honest.

Sparks

*sigh*
For the record, you can't get a firearms licence in Ireland for the purpose of self-defence or defence of property. While using one that is to hand in extremis is not a crime, Manic's "preperations" are illegal in Ireland.
And it's this sort of RKBA image that has the Dail currently debating the prohibition of handguns from genuine target shooters who are competing internationally (and also banning at least two sporting events that I know of in the process), and that has target shooting clubs about to be saddled with hundreds of manhours of work doing paperwork every year to track who is actually shooting targets and who (if anyone) is acting the maggot.

Holsten

If I could get away with it I'd have no problem killing any scumbag who came into my house.

The way I see it, when you break into someone elses home, you should give up all your rights, including the right to live.

stovelid

Obsidian wrote: »

I would have no qaulms about doing anything to protect my family, whether it means losing my freedom or not.

Meaning you'd do a long stretch and deprive your family of a father just because some junkie was trying to rob a rack of CDs from downstairs.


Lot of huffing and puffing on this thread.

Hamiltonion

Ada Steep Munchies wrote: »

Why?

The legend that is Padraig Nally is not locked up? Cant see why people would disagree with shooting someone who is trying to rob/hurt you or your family.

As soon as anyone steps foot on your property with the intent to damage/steal you should have to right to do whatever you believe to be nessessary to protect your property as well as your safety. Would be an awful lot less break ins if every 4 out of 5 perpetrators was shot dead. Its a pragmatic issue, not an idealist one

Manic Moran

Sparks wrote: »

. While using one that is to hand in extremis is not a crime, Manic's "preperations" are illegal in Ireland.

Sparks is, of course, quite correct. That's why I said that the US has not restricted our abilities to defend ourselves. You guys in Ireland are on your own. Go complain to your TD.

NTM

WillieCocker

stovelid wrote: »

Meaning you'd do a long stretch and deprive your family of a father just because some junkie was trying to rob a rack of CDs from downstairs.


Lot of huffing and puffing on this thread.

Problem is you never know if it's a cd, your car or your life they are after.
Fair enough anyone who challenges a burglar downstairs is asking for it.

But if you have children, it's far harder to make banging noises upstairs and hope for the best than to use a weapon if no one is leaving the house in a hurry.

Sparks

Manic Moran wrote: »

Sparks is, of course, quite correct. That's why I said that the US has not restricted our abilities to defend ourselves. You guys in Ireland are on your own. Go complain to your TD.

Any chance folks could wait for a little while before doing that? Right now we're trying to not see handguns banned outright for target shooting by pointing out that we shoot paper targets on closely controlled ranges, under licences which are quite rigorously monitored by the Gardai. A few dozen folks from the intertubes writing in to ask to be allowed to shoot random strangers for knocking on their door would probably not help us keep our sports.

johnny_knoxvile

stovelid wrote: »

Meaning you'd do a long stretch and deprive your family of a father just because some junkie was trying to rob a rack of CDs from downstairs.


Lot of huffing and puffing on this thread.

do a long stretch haha thats hilarious.

Its not huffing and puffing, its the truth, even though you may not agree with it.

Fighting Irish

Shout from the top of the stairs that you have a gun and the cops have been called. If someone starts to come up the stairs i'd shoot, no problem

johnny_knoxvile

I'd play skanger pitch n' put!... FOUR!!

CiaranC

Manic Moran wrote: »

Sparks is, of course, quite correct. That's why I said that the US has not restricted our abilities to defend ourselves. You guys in Ireland are on your own. Go complain to your TD.

NTM

Luckily for us, the fact that we havent armed the entire population to the teeth means that if a junkie breaks into your house to rob your stereo, he doesnt need to bring a gun with him.

Our junkies are smarter than that.

He'd just sell the gun to buy his gear.

LD 50

Biggins wrote: »

What ever it takes to keep my wife and kids safe. No if's or buts - no hesitations.

=

Rhyme wrote: »

Kill everyone.

+1 (i've no kids or wife/SO though.)
I have a stash of knives and assorted blades that I keep beside the bed,

CiaranC

LD 50 wrote: »

I have a stash of knives and assorted blades that I keep beside the bed,

Do you pose in front of the mirror in a ninja mask with them?

You do dont you?

kildara

Biggins wrote: »

What ever it takes to keep my wife and kids safe. No if's or buts - no hesitations.

Yep, me too.

I'd then be having a serious chat to the wife to ask why she kept kids a secret from me.

Naos

the_syco wrote: »

So if you're in a one floor house, like a bungalow, you're f**ked, yeah?


When the alarm doesn't arm at 4am, I grab a knife, and check all the windows, doors, etc. Waiting at the top of the stairs never enters my train of thought.

=-=

Unless you beat them to a pulp at the top of the stairs, there'll be no proof that they even came up the stairs, thus you face time behind bars. You get surprised whilst watching TV, and the route to the stairs is blocked, and you defend yourself, you face time behind bars. You beat them to a pulp, put them into the boot of your car, and drop them off with half a roll of duct tap, you'll probably still face time behind bars.

Moral of the story: dead men don't tell tales. Anything else, you'll face time behind bars.

You can always drag him up the stairs afterwards and then it's your word, as a good upstanding member of society against his, as a scumbag who's more than likely been in trouble with the law.

O'Coonassa

I'ma get medieval on they ass

Sean Quagmire

O'Coonassa wrote: »

I'ma get medieval on they ass

you've just given Martin Lawrence and idea for his next movie, well done

'DDAAYYUMM'

Sean Quagmire

Naos wrote: »

You can always drag him up the stairs afterwards and then it's your word, as a good upstanding member of society against his, as a scumbag who's more than likely been in trouble with the law.

Judging from the sentences handed out to violent criminals these days I would say the upstanding member of society would be creamed in court while anto recovers in hospital awaiting a nice check.

Jesus1222

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have a sidearm and hollow-point ammunition loaded and within arm's reach of the bed.

Is this illegal?

Sean Quagmire

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

while anto recovers in hospital awaiting a nice check.

Shoot to Kill, then anto wont get a check and he cannot make up a story either so no one to argue with your story of what happened.

twinytwo

KerranJast wrote: »

Shooting someone who is trying to hurt your family is A-OK and no judge or jury in the land would convict you once you used appropriate force. Shooting some sap for petty theft is out of order though.

Tut tut the traveler scum that partake in such activites deserve all they get... if its ok for them to rob all before them then the deserve whatever comes their way ... a kick in the ass, or buck shot to the face

twinytwo

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Is this illegal?

Not in america.... so long as the side arm is licenced

KerranJast

twinytwo wrote: »

Tut tut the traveler scum that partake in such activites deserve all they get... if its ok for them to rob all before them then the deserve whatever comes their way ... a kick in the ass, or buck shot to the face

Thankfully we live in a civilised society where theft isn't a capital crime. If someone steals from you call the Gardai. If you start letting property owners kill thieves or trespassers we'll end up like the States where a lot of people die every year from accidental shootings, mistaken identity or where robbers increasingly arm themselves more heavily to negate homeowners weaponry.

Jesus1222

twinytwo wrote: »

Not in america.... so long as the side arm is licenced

I'm talking about the hollow point ammunition.

KerranJast

KerranJast wrote: »

If someone steals from you call the Gardai.

Not much good in that though, even if they catch them they will get some pointless suspended sentence or spend about 15 mins in jail before returning to a life of scumbaggery! The lack of knee caps or other body part(possibly a head) from a a few shots or another method would put a end to their life of crime much faster and might discourage ther gob s***e friends also.

KerranJast

Ada Steep Munchies wrote: »

Not much good in that though, even if they catch them they will get some pointless suspended sentence or spend about 15 mins in jail before returning to a life of scumbaggery! The lack of knee caps or other body part(possibly a head) from a a few shots or another method would put a end to their life of crime much faster and might discourage ther gob s***e friends also.

No it would just make them turn up to your house and beat the living ****e out of you when your guard was down.

Sparks

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Is this illegal?

In Ireland yes, in Indiana no.

Jesus1222 wrote: »

I'm talking about the hollow point ammunition.

There's nothing illegal about hollow point ammunition so long as you're not a soldier. It's actually safer for both target shooting (bullet deforms absorbing energy so it's less likely to richochet off the backstop plate) and for what Manic's talking about (less penetration means the guy three houses down won't be hit by the bullet). Hollowpoints are only illegal for military use (under the Hague convention). They're standard police issue as well in many US states (not sure about here).

Tigger

australia

daveob007

Nappy wrote: »

are you guys living in ireland? Didnt realise people had such easy access to guns over here... thats a little worrying... yeah if my family were threatened i think id do whatever i had to but its all very well typing this, id love to see what my actual reaction would be.. I dont think id cower away though...

we do not have easy access to guns over here, we have the stricest gun laws in the world.
and as for having a sidearm beside the bed thats not allowed either.

KerranJast

KerranJast wrote: »

No it would just make them turn up to your house and beat the living ****e out of you when your guard was down.

I saw Padraig there a few weeks ago and he didnt look like he was on the receiving end of any beatings?

How would they know your guard was down, if they showed up they could risk meeting the same fate?

Overheal

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Is this illegal?

Not in the United States. in fact hollow tip is not only legal but safer than Full Metal Jacket, for the improved accuracy and reduced chance of over-penetration and ricochet. Much less chance of stray bystanders being hit. Most hunting jurisdictions actually restrict you to hollow tip and its preferred civilian issue. And for target shooting as well, not only because of accuracy but again, not wanting to obliterate your fancy metal targets with every round. On the indoor gun range with paper targets however I dont think I've seen hollow tip rounds yet.

Sparks beat me to it.

HashSlinging wrote: »

I lock all the ground floor doors every night, its a habit. Dog it kept in doors also, (little miniature jack Russell (very territorial)) as an early warning system.

Locking the doors should not be anything special, and anyone not doing it deserves what they get.

I think it comes down to what we're programmed to do,Fight or Flight (flight being hiding under the bed) If they set a foot on the stairs it would be fight but once they stayed downstairs I would make a lot of noise to try scare 'em away.

Davaeo09

Biggins wrote: »

What ever it takes to keep my wife and kids safe. No if's or buts - no hesitations.

Firmly agree. Although I have no wife and kids. I do live with loved one's how ever, and I would stop at nothing to keep them safe from an attack.

I have a baseball bat, and a few knifes that would do the job. But lets just hope it never comes to any of that..




:pac:

Overheal

Davaeo09 wrote: »

I have a baseball bat, and a few knifes that would do the job. But lets just hope it never comes to any of that..




:pac:

I'll borrow this anecdote from my friend, who lives in Limerick. He was outside the door of some nightclub a couple years ago. A couple gets into the back of a cab. Out of nowhere this scumbag pulled out a knife and told them to get the Fcuk out.

So naturally, yer boyfriend pulled a gun out on him and informed the scumbag "This isnt the 90s."

Scumbag bolted.

Borneo Fnctn

If somebody broke into my house I wouldn't hesitate to piss my pants. Seriously though, I have a great big knife within an arms reach of my bed. 7 inch blade. I've gone downstairs with it in the middle of the night after hearing someone at the door. I never really thought about it too much. I don't have fantasies about gangsters trying to kidnap my family where I'm the hero.

Sean Quagmire

Overheal wrote: »

I'll borrow this anecdote from my friend, who lives in Limerick America. He was outside the door of some nightclub a couple years ago. A couple gets into the back of a cab. Out of nowhere this scumbag pulled out a knife and told them to get the Fcuk out.

So naturally, yer boyfriend pulled a gun out on him and informed the scumbag "This isnt the 90s."

Scumbag bolted.

FYP

fish slapped

Sorry but this thread is so far off the mark with so much BS and miss-info being given thats is scary.

Local-womanizer

KerranJast wrote: »

If he had shot them he'd have been the one locked up and rightly so.

He wasent looking to kill them,he was looking to make them think twice about ever attempting to break in to a persons house ever again,and rightly so tbf.

If someone breaks into your house,you do not know there intentions.Deal with them as soon as possible to keep your family safe.Your home is meant to be the safest thing in the world,where your family should have no fear about anything.

RonMexico

I keep my priests outfit at the end of the bed and I have the stereo on standby ready to play this should any little anto scrote try and break in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0I6mhZ5wMw

easyeason3

Wow I wasn't expecting this much of a response.
Anyway I'd happily let some scumbag rob the house blind once he wouldn't come near me.
However I would question my judgement over using a hurley/ knife/ gun to defend myself if he attacked me physically or sexually. Obviously enough I would do everything possible to defend myself but I don't think I'd be too happy with myself afterwards.
As much as I love to see scum get a taste of their own medicine I don't really want to be the person giving it to them.

magick

once their in ur home all bets are off, you should be allowed to stab them in the face