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Garda Searches and 'Reasonable Cause for Suspicion'

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  • 22-05-2009 2:43am
    #1
    Jimmy Bennett
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭


    I've read the stickies so firstly I'll say this is an issue concerning our constitutional rights to privacy and in no way relates to a real life case or a personal situation. It's a hypothetical situation but it happens every day.

    Now. Under the 'Misuse of Drugs Act 1994', if a member of the Gardai stops and wishes to search a citizen in a public place, the Garda must have 'reasonable cause' to suspect that the citizen in question has committed an offence.

    My question is regarding 'reasonable cause'. It's a vague term but what do you interpret this term to mean?

    Obviously it would include behaviour resembling an illicit deal on the street, being in the company of known suspects or even visible drug use itself. But I'm talking about a situation in which the citizen has been singled out in a public place, is unaware of any behaviour even resembling wrongdoing on their part and does not see grounds for a violation of their privacy.

    Is 'reasonable cause' effectively a blank cheque for Gardai to search whoever they want? Or can a citizen refuse to be searched? If the citizen asks, is the Garda obliged to explain the cause for suspicion? I want to hear what you think. Views from anybody with knowledge of criminal law, including Gardai, are especially welcome.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Reasonable cause is objective (reasonable man) so some basis for exercising it must exist. A hunch is not sufficient.

    In theory it's not a blank cheque for a Garda to randomly search any person under S23 in a public place, A Garda needs to be in a position to stand over his decision.

    I remember many moons ago myself and three friends travelling in a car and we came to a checkpoint. For whatever reason the Garda decided to single us out by getting us all out of the car. He decided then to search us and when he came to me I asked him on what grounds and his reply was "Misuse of Drugs Act". I let him search me but to this day I don't believe he had reasonable cause to search myself or my friends and indeed the car. Myself of the people I was with were not known to Gardai or ever in trouble with them. I was a lot younger then and not as informed as I would be today of my rights and Garda powers.

    So yes some Gardai do use this power indiscriminately particularly towards young people.

    O and just an addition here when Gardai are exercising this power are obliged to tell the person in ordinary language why they are being searched.

    Also if reasonable cause is deemed not to exist (as in my example) the search is unlawful and the person subjected to the search a cause of action against the Garda. A call to a solicitor and a trip to the Ombudsman being the remedies.


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    #3
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Gardai are given leeway in what is reasonable cause. They must be allowed to conduct their investigations and not to be constrained by.

    If you think about it, if the Gardai had to show actual cause for suspicion, then the Gardai would get nothing done.

    Remember often the innocent search for one grounds, say illegal or dodgy number plates, snowballs into the Garda smelling of cannabis of the driver which leads to charges on possession of drugs or drink driving.

    Generally the Gardai have better things to be doing than searching innocent parties without grounds for suspicion.


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    #4
    sunnyjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭sunnyjim


    McCrack wrote:
    Also if reasonable cause is deemed not to exist (as in my example) the search is unlawful and the person subjected to the search a cause of action against the Garda. A call to a solicitor and a trip to the Ombudsman being the remedies.

    Ah come on now.

    If a garda searches you, it's because he's doing his job. For every search of some presumably innocent and law-abiding person, you can be guaranteed that some scumbag has been searched 3 times that. Bringing a solicitor or the GO into the equation means that Gardai will have to tip-toe around the usual suspects too.

    Did a 15 minute search bother you that much?


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    #5
    GrumPy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭GrumPy


    It's all far too vague in my opinion. -> see here

    Apparently, because I was in a vehicle at the time, some road traffic act rules was enforced in that they can basically do whatever the fúck they want if your in a car. :confused: Still havn't got my stuff back, rang station plenty of times, finally spoke to the officer (that told my friend to "shut up, i make the rules" at one point) He said the other officer was dealing with the matter and sent me a receipt. He will get him to call me on wednesday, it's now friday. Postman no sign of letter, no call, no guns.

    If a police officer ever tried tosearch me on the street, I would refuse and happily be arrested for failure to do what he said. Fúcking power hungry, cheeky fúckers.


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    #6
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Make an application to a judge under the police property act to get your stuff back.


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    #7
    Trojan911
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Trojan911


    sunnyjim wrote: »
    Ah come on now.

    If a garda searches you, it's because he's doing his job.

    No, it's because he or she has reasonable grounds to do so. A member of AGS cannot pull you in the street and search you at random. It's known as a "Fishing Expedition" which is unlawful.

    sunnyjim wrote: »
    Bringing a solicitor or the GO into the equation means that Gardai will have to tip-toe around the usual suspects too.

    Not if they are doing their job correctly.
    sunnyjim wrote: »
    Did a 15 minute search bother you that much?

    It would bother me to have my liberty suspended for fifteen minutes.

    Stop & Search is a powerful tool and should be used correctly. Misuse or abuse of this power can & will lead to mistrust from decent members of the public, who are doing nothing other than going about their normal daily lives.

    Whenever I used Stop & Search in London, there was always reasonable grounds & I treated the person the way I would be expect to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot. It's called respect.

    This should give you a few more answers.


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    #8
    sunnyjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭sunnyjim


    All that aside, this is all about you losing 15 minutes of your 'liberty'.

    You'd swear it was 15 minutes of torture.


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    #9
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Still, I would complain all the way if someone did that to me.


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    #10
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    sunnyjim wrote: »
    All that aside, this is all about you losing 15 minutes of your 'liberty'.

    You'd swear it was 15 minutes of torture.

    This is not realy about whether a person should co-operate or not but more about how we operate within the parameters of the law. We are only allowed to search once we have reasonable suspicion, nothing more, nothing less.

    For everyone else, reasonable suspicion can come from varying sources such as previous recent drug seizure, information received, evidence of drug use etc etc


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