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Lebron "king" james.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xrox wrote: »
    Actually i have been around long enough to watch jordan as far back as 89 before then i was too young to stay up till 5 in the morning watching NBA games on the good old german satilite channel of DSF sports. So no i wasnt lucky enough to see him play live in front of me but yes i have watched NBA basketball for 20 years now.

    As for jordan being 28 the option of skipping college back in his day wasnt really an option so he started in the league alot later than Lebron did so the matter of age is not comparable.

    Ive seen and met Kobe, picked up a cavs game with lebron playing albeit againts golden state and very early in his carrier met lots of players and was fortunate to see them play in front of me and as ive said yes Lebron is a good player and i watched the game you put the clip up of last night at 2 in the morning as will i stay up to watch tonights game and yes that was a great shot.

    Very like jordan but i dont see you posting a video of game one where he threw the game away by giving up the ball to someone else! and oh wait they lost to the magic a team that lives and dies by the three so a little bit of guard defense on the 3 point line and they would of spanked the magic.

    The proof of Lebron as a good player will be when they meet the nuggets in the next round when he goes against a team not a bunch of indivduals but a team of strong tallent and not one or 2 stars. (yes i did say nuggets next round as i think kobe's lakers have a hill to climb being 1-1 and the next 3 games at home for the nuggets)

    But the proof of him as a great player (not the greatest but great) will be to come back and do it all again next year he has to prove he can bring it year in year out, with no excuses.
    Ok lets clear this matter up first. As far as the teams go, LeBron's Cavs are not nearly as strong relative to the rest of the league as Jordan's Bulls were.
    I'm talking about when you take out LBJ and MJ.
    Now LeBron is in his 5th year I think, and Jordan was in his 7th in the NBA when he won his first title. If LeBron wins a title with this bunch its incredible, but if he moves on to New York I can guarantee he will have a team put round him to rival that Bull's team. Thats when you can compare them rings wise.
    But purely as a player I think he is every bit as good as Jordan, of course MJ's longevity has still to be matched but if you go by PER ratings he has already achieved the fourth highest season rating ever and the top three are held by MJ. He is no.3 on the career ratings at this stage behind MJ and Shaq. There are problems with the PER rating system but its by far the best rating system that has been devised so far in Basketball.
    Funnily the problems are on the defensive side and its claimed that not enough credit is given to defenders but I think Jordan and James don't suffer if you improve that end of the rating, they might actually improve.
    I just think that this rating is what will determine just how good he was at the end of his career.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Sea Devils


    jimmay wrote: »
    I'm now definitely under the impression that he will leave Cleveland in 2010 because he wants to become the first 'billionaire brand' athlete :eek: I think his team will figure that won't be possible staying in Cleveland.
    However I don't think he'd leave before he got Cleveland a championship

    The problem that Cleveland has is that they don't have much in the way of a low post threat. Ilgauskas is a solid post up player, but if he's in the post, then the lane gets clogged for LeBron. LeBron is unique in the respect that his game is predicated on two ultra-ultra developed skills...which is getting to the basket and finishing or passing to an open teammate. He's the best finisher in the league and one of the best passers.

    However, Cleveland's attack is one that comes from outside-in, instead of inside out. That's the reason that I think Cleveland's going to run into trouble until either LeBron develops a killer jump shot (which would allow for a low post threat to do his thing), his own postup game (which would allow their offense to run from inside-out), or the team has an absolutely dominant defense that can make up for an inconsistent offense. But I don't think they can have a dominant defense with two small guards in the backcourt and no real shot blockers inside.

    This Cavs team reminds of the 90's Bulls in terms of how they're constructed, but the difference is...MJ was a legit post threat, and their offense was consistent because of that. It's very hard to win in this league without your offense having someone who can go to work down low. Even last year's Celtics had Garnett.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The Bull's team for Jordan's return was savage. You still had Pippen and Kerr, Kukoc was with them a couple of years, then Rodman and Longley were added. Oh and I almost forgot Steve Harper.

    I was going to start comparing the two teams but I think the line ups, well I'm really talking about the second Bull's team more than the first but anyways.

    Bulls
    Cavs

    Jordan
    James
    Pippen
    Williams
    Kukoc
    Varejao
    Longley
    Ilgauskas
    Rodman
    West


    Then you got Harper and Kerr to come in. Savage team for the Bulls. I think they are miles ahead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭jimmay


    No way not now, not yet! You can't compare the Cavs to the Bulls! The only reason this is being done is the whole LBJ v MJ.
    I think if/when Lebron moves and he gets a legit side superstar name with him, you'll see more comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Xrox


    Brilliant game tonight but im sorry to say Lebron threw the game away for the Cavs he just about managed to get them into over time nearly missing the second freethrow, but he made it.

    But the in overtime he goes and throws the ball straight out of bounds off a no look pass, tries to bounce pass in the paint thru 3 magic players, throws the ball straight to Alston on the break 3 unforced turn overs then comes down and airballs it on a three with the 24 second clock expiring. Then gets blocked by Howard causing a jump ball.

    If he had converted any of those oppertunities at the very least it would of lead to another OT.

    What really killed them is they got to over time by Lebron sharing the ball and the work load for the first time in the series and his team stepped up there game as a result but in over time he went completely away from that to a Lebron against the whole magic team.

    The boy is good but he made too many brain farts in OT.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well for all his mistakes he still almost go it done at the buzzer in ot. And his defense tonight was just awesome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Xrox


    I totally agree he was awesome but its the little things that separate good even great players from the greatest!

    Now if he manages to get past the magic in this series i.e. winning 3 on the trot that would put him well on his way to earning the title of being a great player which he was handed before he even got to the league.

    But you got to agree what a game!


  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭jimmay


    Yep when magic went up by 6 in OT I thought it's over...then he drains a 3...lewis missed a free through...and he still nearly won it...incredible player


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Brien






    Jaysus!!!!!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭lebron james


    jimmay wrote: »
    Yep when magic went up by 6 in OT I thought it's over...then he drains a 3...lewis missed a free through...and he still nearly won it...incredible player

    The man is a one man team, we would have won tonight if he was not so selfless!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Xrox


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The Bull's team for Jordan's return was savage. You still had Pippen and Kerr, Kukoc was with them a couple of years, then Rodman and Longley were added. Oh and I almost forgot Steve Harper.

    I was going to start comparing the two teams but I think the line ups, well I'm really talking about the second Bull's team more than the first but anyways.

    Bulls
    Cavs

    Jordan
    James
    Pippen
    Williams
    Kukoc
    Varejao
    Longley
    Ilgauskas
    Rodman
    West


    Then you got Harper and Kerr to come in. Savage team for the Bulls. I think they are miles ahead.

    Yes granted jordans team he had for his second three-peat was a power house of role players and a matured Pippen but jordan won his first Ring with this line up..

    Bulls
    Cavs
    10 B.J. Armstrong
    1 Daniel Gibson
    24 Bill Cartwright
    21 J.J. Hickson
    54 Horace Grant
    11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
    14 Craig Hodges
    00 Darnell Jackson
    2 Dennis Hopson
    23 LeBron James
    23 Michael Jordan
    8 Tarence Kinsey
    34 Stacey King
    3 Aleksandar Pavlovic
    53 Cliff Levingston
    32 Joe Smith
    5 John Paxson
    10 Wally Szczerbiak
    32 Will Perdue
    17 Anderson Varejao
    33 Scottie Pippen
    4 Ben Wallace - C
    42 Scott Williams
    13 Delonte West

    31 Jawad Williams

    2 Mo Williams

    55 Lorenzen Wright

    Taking the bulls starting line up of Jordan, Pippen, Grant, Paxson and Cartwright and comparing them with the Cavs of James, Williams, West,
    Ilgauskas and Varejao i think these 2 line ups are evenly matched for the most part with maybe even the cavs piping it.

    Obviously Jordan gets compared to Lebron and even if you leave them at a tie since were comparing teams around them.

    Compare Pippen to Williams and a younger Pippen (and not the legend he grew to be) wins it just about as he averaged 6 more points than williams has so far this year in the playoffs but they are fairly similar in other ways stats wise at this point in their careers.

    Match up Paxson and West's numbers are far superior (even if compared to armstrong west still out does him)

    Compare Grant to Ilgauskas and they are also pretty much even with Grant having a higher average points by 2 but Iggy giving you more blocked shots and better defense.

    The were left with Varejao compared to Cartwright and they seem to be fairly even maybe with Varejao pipping it with his ability to gaurd outside the paint.

    So i hope this dismisses the myth that the team Jordan first won a ring with was far superior to James's current team id say they are about even but even if they are not the 91 bulls were in no way the superstars people have being making out they are.

    So if he needs a bunch of superstars around him like most have touted here im sorry to say he is still inferior to Jordan as he didnt have a great supporting cast when he won his first few rings


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xrox wrote: »

    So if he needs a bunch of superstars around him like most have touted here im sorry to say he is still inferior to Jordan as he didnt have a great supporting cast when he won his first few rings
    No, you just don't get it do you. Nobody is saying that LeBron is on MJ's level yet, it will take a career or most of it to make that level. We are saying that he is the guy who can do it.

    Now simply comparing stats is not enough when you are judging the teams around each player. You also have to take into account the average team standard of basketball in the NBA at the time.

    The standard of your average basketballer today is a lot higher than it was back in the late eighties and early nineties. You have to compare those teams to those around them and that Bulls team was a far stronger compared to those around them that this present Cavs team.

    If you took LeBron out of that team they would struggle in a series with the Oklahoma Thunder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Xrox


    The Average player and team are better now today!!! who are you kidding listed below is the first 8 teams and the players they had and im sorry to tell you Jordan's bulls wouldnt of made the playoffs (would of lost to the clippers in a game!) without him much like Lebrons supporting cast. Remeber Jordan wasnt a legend at this stage much like Lebron isnt now the only difference is jordan went on to win 3 in a row with a team that at that stage wouldnt get out of the regular season.

    Now heres just a few of those below par teams (by todays standards according to you) and no i didnt pick the top 5 or 8 went alphabetically off the top of my head i could of listed Ewings Knicks, Curry and Gills Hornets, the Suns at the time, the Jazz at the time....

    Detroit off 2 straight nba championships a team with Dumars, Lamber, Thomas, Rodman, Salley.

    Boston a team with Bird, Mchale, Parish, and Brown.

    Atlanta a team with Wilkins, Augmon, and Cheeks.

    Nuggets with the outstanding duo of Mutumbo and Abdul-auf.

    Warriors with Elle, Hardaway, Mullins and Ritchmond.

    Rockets with Kenny smith and Olajuwon.

    Pacers with Miller, Schriempf, Rik Smits and Chuck Person.

    Lakers with Campbell, Divac, Scott, Perkins, Green and Magic.

    Im sorry but i think you need a reality check if you think the teams today are all round better than these teams. Like WTF!!!

    So all that said and teams in the leagues at this time compared and the rosters around the players compared i would say that both Jordan and Lebron had simliar strength teams in a similarly ranked league...

    Eventho Jordan was coming up against all round stronger teams, teams built around Stars like Magic Bird, Ewing, Malone ill let all that slide for the sake of the discussion and say that the teams then were level with the ones today.

    ....The only difference is Jordan took his team to the Three-peat and Lebron right now having the same chances and up against the same odds looks to be heading out of the play offs on the next game.

    (before you start i have not compared Jordan the Legend against Lebron the up and comer above they are compared at similar stages in their career and even giving Lebron another year or two I doubt hell win one ring never mind 3 in a row)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Sea Devils


    Xrox wrote: »
    Warriors with Elle, Hardaway, Mullins and Ritchmond.

    )

    God I miss that Run TMC group. Mullin is actually my favourite Warrior of all time (from a player's perspective). Just a pity that Nellie had to break it up by trading Ritchmond to Sacramento for Billy Owens which ranks along one of the most inauspicious moves by this Franchise:(

    RunTMC_160x140.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭evil_seed


    Brien wrote: »




    Jaysus!!!!!!!!!!
    and i'll raise you :D:D


    Why are people calling him LBJ. Its LJ afaic. :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Stab*City


    no it lbj


  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭jimmay


    I found a video of him interviewed here

    Apparently he's getting a bit of a backlash for not shaking hands or dealing with reporters.

    There's a poll on that link that asks what is your opinion of LBJ after this. I was one of the 4% :p that has improved and I'll say why.

    1) It shows he's human and has a flaw, if that's what you want to call it
    2) We don't know what he was thinking, he may have ended up going on a mad one about his teammates (remember Howard about Van Gundy in the Celts series) and that wouldn't have been good for the team
    3) He got emotional, as that writer said in his own words "LeBron is clearly the best player of his generation" and that is alot of pressure to deal with, going out of the NBA conference finals.
    4) He was teammates with Howard on the US olympic squad and there maybe more to this story than we know. I remember Howard throwing an elbow or 2 at some players on the Cavs throughout the series.
    5) I could go on but seriously he's what 24 and I think big deal, I'd rather see him act like that and show his true feelings than get up on the podium and be like "yes well done orlando". He may well do soon, but couldn't or didn't want to yet.

    LBJ 4 president haha


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xrox wrote: »
    The Average player and team are better now today!!! who are you kidding listed below is the first 8 teams and the players they had and im sorry to tell you Jordan's bulls wouldnt of made the playoffs (would of lost to the clippers in a game!) without him much like Lebrons supporting cast. Remeber Jordan wasnt a legend at this stage much like Lebron isnt now the only difference is jordan went on to win 3 in a row with a team that at that stage wouldnt get out of the regular season.

    Now heres just a few of those below par teams (by todays standards according to you) and no i didnt pick the top 5 or 8 went alphabetically off the top of my head i could of listed Ewings Knicks, Curry and Gills Hornets, the Suns at the time, the Jazz at the time....

    Detroit off 2 straight nba championships a team with Dumars, Lamber, Thomas, Rodman, Salley.

    Boston a team with Bird, Mchale, Parish, and Brown.

    Atlanta a team with Wilkins, Augmon, and Cheeks.

    Nuggets with the outstanding duo of Mutumbo and Abdul-auf.

    Warriors with Elle, Hardaway, Mullins and Ritchmond.

    Rockets with Kenny smith and Olajuwon.

    Pacers with Miller, Schriempf, Rik Smits and Chuck Person.

    Lakers with Campbell, Divac, Scott, Perkins, Green and Magic.

    Im sorry but i think you need a reality check if you think the teams today are all round better than these teams. Like WTF!!!

    So all that said and teams in the leagues at this time compared and the rosters around the players compared i would say that both Jordan and Lebron had simliar strength teams in a similarly ranked league...

    Eventho Jordan was coming up against all round stronger teams, teams built around Stars like Magic Bird, Ewing, Malone ill let all that slide for the sake of the discussion and say that the teams then were level with the ones today.

    ....The only difference is Jordan took his team to the Three-peat and Lebron right now having the same chances and up against the same odds looks to be heading out of the play offs on the next game.

    (before you start i have not compared Jordan the Legend against Lebron the up and comer above they are compared at similar stages in their career and even giving Lebron another year or two I doubt hell win one ring never mind 3 in a row)
    I just seen this now.
    I said that the average team today is better. I didn't say that the average team today is better than the NBA Champions of any era. Don't twist my words into something I did not say.
    Its much tougher at the top now. We've had 7 different teams in the finals over the past five years including this year and the winners this year will be the fourth different winner in five years. Thats very unusual of you look at the history of the NBA.
    Look at the period of the Bulls second 3 in a row, the Jazz and the Rockets were miles ahead of anybody else bar the bulls. The Rockets ended up winning the two titles in between MJ's six.
    Look at the eighties and it was always either the Lakers or Celtics with one title thrown in for the 76ers and Dr J. Then the Pistons got on top at the very end of the decade and then came the Bulls for 3, Rockets for 2, Bulls back for 3. And theres the eighties and nineties out of the way.
    Thats four teams dominating two decades. Just to remind you again, we are now looking at our fourth different champions in five years.

    The Lakers just scraped by the Rockets who were missing McGrady all season and lost Yao in the playoffs. The Nuggets gave the Lakers a real fright and could/imo should have beaten them. The Magic just scraped by the KG less Celtics. The Celtics just scraped by the Bulls.

    This is how tight the game has become. Every team has top, top playmakers now.

    Match right now with any period in history and tell me when we had a depth of top class talent to match right now.

    James, Bryant, Wade, Howard, Paul, Anthony, Billups, Rose, Iverson, McGrady, Ming, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Duncan, Stoudamire, Nash, Carter, Shaq..............................


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Xrox


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I just seen this now.
    I said that the average team today is better. I didn't say that the average team today is better than the NBA Champions of any era. Don't twist my words into something I did not say.

    I never said you did the discussion we were having was lebrons team better than jordans team i.e. their supporting cast as in the teams without there stars.

    Hence the they would loose to the clippers remark (of either era) :D
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Its much tougher at the top now. We've had 7 different teams in the finals over the past five years including this year and the winners this year will be the fourth different winner in five years. Thats very unusual of you look at the history of the NBA.

    Yes we have had a good few champs in the last while but that only shows that none of the teams or players are able to dominate the league for a sustained period not that the league is any better than it has been.

    The league and style of play is in constant motion and changes year on year but that does not go to say the standard is any lower or higher as players are competing against players of their own era/style.

    It is only the truely great players that change the entire game the pace at which it moves and what is seen as possible no one today kobe or lebron has been able to do it. Jordan done it, magic done it bird did it.

    eagle eye wrote: »
    Look at the period of the Bulls second 3 in a row, the Jazz and the Rockets were miles ahead of anybody else bar the bulls. The Rockets ended up winning the two titles in between MJ's six.
    Look at the eighties and it was always either the Lakers or Celtics with one title thrown in for the 76ers and Dr J. Then the Pistons got on top at the very end of the decade and then came the Bulls for 3, Rockets for 2, Bulls back for 3. And theres the eighties and nineties out of the way.
    Thats four teams dominating two decades. Just to remind you again, we are now looking at our fourth different champions in five years.

    What you on about it in the last 10 years Purs won it 4 times, LA 3 times, Heat nicked in to get one and in my opinion the Celtics would of repeated this year if it wasnt for injuries so no the league is not any better still is getting dominated by teams.

    eagle eye wrote: »
    Match right now with any period in history and tell me when we had a depth of top class talent to match right now.

    James, Bryant, Wade, Howard, Paul, Anthony, Billups, Rose, Iverson, McGrady, Ming, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Duncan, Stoudamire, Nash, Carter, Shaq..............................

    There you go from the 80's - Reggie Theus, Patrick Ewing, Nate Archibald, Karl Malone, Bernard King, Maurice Cheeks, Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Charles Barkley, Bill Laimbeer, Kevin McHale, Dominique Wilkins, Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, Jack Sikma, George Gervin, Robert Parish, Adrian Dantley, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Moses Malone, Larry Bird

    If you need reminding of any other decades just ask, but it just goes to show every era has a host of great players but only one guy was ever able to completely dominate and it ain't lebron.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xrox wrote: »



    There you go from the 80's - Reggie Theus, Patrick Ewing, Nate Archibald, Karl Malone, Bernard King, Maurice Cheeks, Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Charles Barkley, Bill Laimbeer, Kevin McHale, Dominique Wilkins, Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, Jack Sikma, George Gervin, Robert Parish, Adrian Dantley, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Moses Malone, Larry Bird

    If you need reminding of any other decades just ask, but it just goes to show every era has a host of great players but only one guy was ever able to completely dominate and it ain't lebron.
    Ok lets take out LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Iverson and Tim Duncan from this era, and MJ and Larry, Magic, Olajuwon and Malone from the 80's.

    I put to you the following.

    Chris Paul
    Dwayne Wade
    Paul Pierce
    Kevin Garnett
    Dwight Howard



    Tony Parker
    Brandon Roy
    Tracy McGrady
    Dirk Nowitzki
    Yao Ming

    You don't have a team to match them two teams. I'm leaving out the five best today and asking you to do the same from the eighties. I could go on, you can pick another four teams from today which are good enough to beat any team from the eighties when you take out the best five from each era.
    Now the thing is that back in the eighties you didn't need a strong bench. You need that now, not one player but at least three or four who can contribute.
    My point here is that the overall standard today is much tougher than it was back then or in the ninties. Imo the nineties was stronger that the eighties.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Sea Devils


    jimmay wrote: »
    I found a video of him interviewed here

    Apparently he's getting a bit of a backlash for not shaking hands or dealing with reporters.

    There's a poll on that link that asks what is your opinion of LBJ after this. I was one of the 4% :p that has improved and I'll say why.

    I've only just seen this but meh. He's a competitive guy who just saw a year's worth of work go down the drain. I have no problem with how he reacted.

    But , IMO if that was Kobe , the reaction from people here and elsewere would be pretty different.

    LeBron's problem is that he's gonna have to deal with Orlando for the foreseeable future. That's a young team that has their PG coming back next year, and Cleveland isn't constructed to beat them...or other top notch teams, for that matter. LeBron needs someone like Garnett, a big man who can dominate defensively, and stay the hell out of the lane and knock down jumpers.

    Problem is...the only guy that I can think of that fits that description is Garnett. LeBron needs to work on his back to the basket game and/or mid-range game this summer. They're not gonna win a title if their attack is so heavily dependent upon him having the ball and driving to the hoop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xrox wrote: »
    I never said you did the discussion we were having was lebrons team better than jordans team i.e. their supporting cast as in the teams without there stars.

    Hence the they would loose to the clippers remark (of either era) :D

    LeBrons team would have a horrendous record right now without him. They would imo be in the bottom eight in the NBA. I'm not saying that the first MJ three in a row was awesome or anything, but in all fairness Scottie Pippen was there, Horace Grant was highly respected. Then you had Armstrong and Paxson who were very decent guards and Cartwright was a man mountain at Center.
    Xrox wrote: »
    Yes we have had a good few champs in the last while but that only shows that none of the teams or players are able to dominate the league for a sustained period not that the league is any better than it has been.

    The league and style of play is in constant motion and changes year on year but that does not go to say the standard is any lower or higher as players are competing against players of their own era/style.

    It is only the truely great players that change the entire game the pace at which it moves and what is seen as possible no one today kobe or lebron has been able to do it. Jordan done it, magic done it bird did it.

    I've said earlier that MJ is the greatest and it will take LeBron his whole career to make it(or surpass) his level. Its a lifetime thing not a couple of years. I just think the guy has all the tools to do that, now its about staying fit and getting a team around him that can get him to the top.

    Xrox wrote: »
    What you on about it in the last 10 years Purs won it 4 times, LA 3 times, Heat nicked in to get one and in my opinion the Celtics would of repeated this year if it wasnt for injuries so no the league is not any better still is getting dominated by teams.


    I'm talking about the last five years. I said that its been the same thing in all eras up until right now. This is where I've seen a huge change. The reason for this change is the depth in talent in the NBA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Sea Devils wrote: »
    I've only just seen this but meh. He's a competitive guy who just saw a year's worth of work go down the drain. I have no problem with how he reacted.

    But , IMO if that was Kobe , the reaction from people here and elsewere would be pretty different.

    LeBron's problem is that he's gonna have to deal with Orlando for the foreseeable future. That's a young team that has their PG coming back next year, and Cleveland isn't constructed to beat them...or other top notch teams, for that matter. LeBron needs someone like Garnett, a big man who can dominate defensively, and stay the hell out of the lane and knock down jumpers.

    Problem is...the only guy that I can think of that fits that description is Garnett. LeBron needs to work on his back to the basket game and/or mid-range game this summer. They're not gonna win a title if their attack is so heavily dependent upon him having the ball and driving to the hoop.
    Just on the very last bit, I think if he stays then Brown has to go. In the last game the team looked confused at times and were not able to set screens. I mean thats horrendous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Sea Devils


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Just on the very last bit, I think if he stays then Brown has to go. In the last game the team looked confused at times and were not able to set screens. I mean thats horrendous.

    It shows you the joke of the Coach of the Year award when the likes of Brown, Dunleavy and Mitchell have won it but deserving coaches like Sloan haven't.

    His biggest problem is that any championship coach in the situation that the Cavs were in would of made adjustments to relieve some of the pressure off LeBron. Phil Jackson figured out that the pick and roll was killing the Nuggets. Doc Rivers had a defensive game plan in last years finals that killed the Lakers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Xrox


    Eagle eye lets agree to disagree as we could go thru all eras down to the last player but never agree, since we both seem to have an in depth knowlegend of the game. The thing is they are from differing generations and we both havent invented time travel.... YET ! ! ! :D:D:D

    The one thing we agree on is Jordan is the Greatest ever, we just disagree that LJ will ever become good enough to match him, and since you actually seem to have a knowledge of the game im willing to let this drop, just cant stand the morons out there touting him as the next big thing ,like kobe before him, with out a clue in their head why they see him as this. Outside of the hype the media/nba spouts to up sales of over priced jerseys and merchantdise telling them he is.

    So im willing to respect your informed opinion, but any half assed little know it all with zero knowledge beware :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Lebron kobe fan


    Ok as a fan of both lebronand Kobe,kobe is the closest thing to jordan. It's impossible to say kobe isn't the best in the league since he has never proved otherwise. Lebron is only a rare specimen. his quicks and strength is rare in a single individual. Kobe is only 6'6 but what sets him apart is his will, work ethnic and his uncanny ability to take over. You can't mention a part of his game that is questionable unlike Lebrons. Lbjs mid range, long range, low post offense, free throw shooting and decision making is questionable or just not there. Also whoever said lbj was the best closer must be on something. Lebron isn't a fourth qter player


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,176 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    Ok as a fan of both lebronand Kobe,kobe is the closest thing to jordan. It's impossible to say kobe isn't the best in the league since he has never proved otherwise. Lebron is only a rare specimen. his quicks and strength is rare in a single individual. Kobe is only 6'6 but what sets him apart is his will, work ethnic and his uncanny ability to take over. You can't mention a part of his game that is questionable unlike Lebrons. Lbjs mid range, long range, low post offense, free throw shooting and decision making is questionable or just not there. Also whoever said lbj was the best closer must be on something. Lebron isn't a fourth qter player

    Right. You think Kobe is better than Lebron in the low post? Lebron gets more assists than Kobe, Kobe has always had at least one other league star to help him. If Lebron had Shaq or this season the Lakers front court he would've walked the championship. Not saying Kobe isn't a great player, but before Gasol showed up and after Shaq left, there were a LOT of negatives in Kobe's game i.e. his inability to get his team involved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭mink_man


    sound man


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭Sea Devils


    his inability to get his team involved

    Erm the likes of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook and Maurice Evans all averaged career highs or near enough to it when playing with Kobe. Don't really see how that's not making your teammates better.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Lebron kobe fan


    LOL is that a question? Lebron has no low post game. Kobe's footwork is by far superior than Lebron's and as long as Kobe's in the NBA I really dont see him winning a title because Kobe and the Lakers will make it every year lol. You never see Lebron in the low post, posting down a smaller player which is all the players lol. He said it's boring! How can helping your team win be boring. Im pretty sure if he played the low post like people who has his height or weight can they would have made the finals. Oh and the more assist thing.

    LA- Triangle Offense: Kobe passes and usually the player he passes to gets the assist. Thats why its called the Triangle Offense. The second pass is the assist and trust me Kobe does not worry about stats. Get the win any way possible. Duh

    CLE- One on One: Lebron penetrates dish out to all his shooters and whala a bunch of assists. He's a stat filler I give him that.


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