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Imagine billing you for your bill !!

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    #32
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Hagar wrote: »
    Isn't that akin to selling a property with a sitting tenant? The tenancy continues as per the original agreement just the benficiary of the rent changes.

    Ok try this
    Say a company offers a freephone support number as part of their package and T&C's state this, the company wants to discontinue this service and change to a paid number.

    So they change their T&C's accordingly and provide notice and the opt-out in the form of canceling, a customer cannot stop the company from doing such a change.

    Your suggesting that the customer should continue having a freephone support number because this was what was outlined in the first T&C's when in reality this would never happen no matter how much the customer went against it even in court.
    Isn't there the concept in law of unfair, restrictive, unenforceable clauses? Don't major companies rely on public ignorance of the law to work contracts such as these to their advantage? They know full well an individual hasn't got the budget to take them on in court to have the unduly of restrictive. Does that make such clauses right or legal? I don't think so.

    If you believe this and more importantly if the OP believes this then why not challenge it (Imagine's T&C's) in court? :)
    I'm sure the outcome would be interesting,


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    #33
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Ok try this
    Say a company offers a freephone support number as part of their package and T&C's state this, the company wants to discontinue this service and change to a paid number.


    So they change their T&C's accordingly and provide notice and the opt-out in the form of canceling, a customer cannot stop the company from doing such a change.

    Your suggesting that the customer should continue having a freephone support number because this was what was outlined in the first T&C's

    Yes, that's about it, they offered me a service at a price and I accepted. A contract was signed and I would expect them to honour it. If a client wishess to continue receiving the original service offering a small reduction to off set the potential cost incurred by loss of the freephone would be a reasonable option, Let's be honest here, cancelling isn't a valid opt out, it's just "pay up or fnck off"
    Cabaal wrote: »
    ...when in reality this would never happen no matter how much the customer went against it even in court.

    If you believe this and more importantly if the OP believes this then why not challenge it (Imagine's T&C's) in court? :)
    I'm sure the outcome would be interesting,
    Isn't the whole point that these companies know people don't have the money to challenge them?


    I think we are just going to have to agree to differ on this one.


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    #34
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Hagar wrote: »
    Yes, that's about it, they offered me a service at a price and I accepted. A contract was signed and I would expect them to honour it. If a client wishess to continue receiving the original service offering a small reduction to off set the potential cost incurred by loss of the freephone would be a reasonable option, Let's be honest here, cancelling isn't a valid opt out, it's just "pay up or fnck off"

    Thing is this wouldn't and has never happened, might be nice if it did if you were a customer affected but reality says otherwise...

    I think we are just going to have to agree to differ on this one.

    I don't agree to that ;)
    :D


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    #35
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Cabaal i understand your point of view and agree that it would be messy to have to renew each contract, but the "non response is acceptance" option is very unfair.

    as hagar says the accept or FO is not really a fair option, if they want to change an integral part of the agreement then it must be agreed upon. getting a bill is an integral part of the agreement, and in your senario if you made alot of calls to the freephone support line and thats why you went wuth that company , they shouldnt be able to welsh on their side of the agreement just because it suits them.

    its bullyboy tactics and its "we are a big company we have T&C to cover all eventualities so FU".


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    #36
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Surely if the OP didn't get notice though he should be refunded the money and notified before the next bill.

    (Sorry if I missed this point)


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    #37
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Imagine rang today and informed me that seeing as i had serious misgivings about the charge and that i was a values customer that they would be able to give me a discount equivilant to the new charge. They said they would also give the discount to my parents account as well.

    a small victory to the small man. :D


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    #38
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    Nice to see a positive outcome! Have Imagine agreed to waive the charge for the future, or will you now be charged for paper bills from your next bill?


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    #39
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Cabaal wrote: »
    For example:
    So how do you suggest a company change hands if it bought if the customer is entitled to keeping the old contract with the old and now non-existent company with contact details outlineed in the first contract that are not valid anymore? :)

    A contract is binding but if a customer reads it and agrees to a contract which has clauses allowing the company to change it then how can the customer complaint when the company exercises these clauses?

    The company isn't doing anything wrong, its simply that the customer may not like when the company does this....this in itself does not make it illegal as its the customers personal view.

    Fortunately, you are wrong on this.

    Brussels to the rescue!!!

    Basically, the NCA can initiate a prosecution (both for a fine, and to have the unfair term removed from the contract) should the terms be deemed unfair, even if the customer signed the contract.

    Consumers do actually have rights in this country (a lot more than they are aware of)!


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    #40
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    snappieT wrote: »
    Can you use them from proof of ID?

    AIB have been trying to push e-statements onto me for months, but I'm very aware that if I needed to open a new bank account, xtravision account etc. I would need (recent) proof of address, and I'm scared of losing that...
    Hear hear. Whilst e bills might be all nice and dandy and saving the world they are no use when trying to open a bank account or attempt to prove address.


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    #41
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    snappieT wrote: »
    Can you use them from proof of ID?

    AIB have been trying to push e-statements onto me for months, but I'm very aware that if I needed to open a new bank account, xtravision account etc. I would need (recent) proof of address, and I'm scared of losing that...
    Bond-007 wrote: »
    Hear hear. Whilst e bills might be all nice and dandy and saving the world they are no use when trying to open a bank account or attempt to prove address.

    With AIB anyway, you can always revert back to paper statements should you ever need one for proof of address (after which you can, again, change back to eStatements). It's all very simple and free. I like the idea of having all my account statements/credit card bills stored on my computer, as I inevitably always ended up losing the paper based ones (which can't be a good thing security-wise!)


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    #42
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I am not with AIB thank the lord. ;)


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    #43
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Kensington wrote: »
    Nice to see a positive outcome! Have Imagine agreed to waive the charge for the future, or will you now be charged for paper bills from your next bill?

    For the future, they have managed to override their billing procedure just for me :rolleyes:. Still perseverance pays and being polite to those on the phone, no use tearing the arse off those on the front line.

    polite, firm and dogged pays off.


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    #44
    Merch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Merch


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I personally wish the likes of ESB charges customers for bills as well and offered discounts for people willing to use on-line billing,

    I'd certainly wish that all ISP's charge for paper bills and allowed on-line billing as then they'd be no excuse


    And what then when you are asked to bring a bill as proof of address, that is a print off of a soft copy? As a proof of address I have been declined to allow to use a bill printed that way.

    And as for the second paragraph, you wish that all ISP's will charge for paper bills and allow for on-line billing???? what?

    I am all for having an electronic copy and even a discount for going that way,I prefer to have my utility bills in hard copy and I see no reason why I should be penalised for that. You're going backwards in terms of customer rights and services, why don't you just suggest bill payers all get RFID implants!


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