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A call on Dermot Ahern

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  • 23-05-2009 12:53pm
    #1
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭


    For those opposed to the Lisbon treaty or even those that feel the current economic climate does not allow for a referendum I ask that you join my in emailing Dermot Ahern to pressure him for his support.

    If you read here on his comments about the new blasphemy laws he has proposed. He has constantly said he would prefer a seperate state and church but that a referendum is not economically sensible at this time.

    In a speech to a Dail committee he even said,
    Originally Posted by Dermot Ahern
    As a Republican, my personal position is that Church and State should be separate.But I do not have the luxury of ignoring our Constitution.

    If he feels we do not have the finances to run a needed referendum to remove fairy tales from our constitution he surely doesn't think a referendum on an issue we voted on just a year ago is necessary.

    You can email him here dermot@dermotahern.ie

    Thanks.


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    #2
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    The obvious answer would be that a blasphemy referendum is not economically viable, but the Lisbon Treaty is worth the cost in terms of monetary return.


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    #3
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    InFront wrote: »
    The obvious answer would be that a blasphemy referendum is not economically viable, but the Lisbon Treaty is worth the cost in terms of monetary return.

    Damn I missed the free money for every Lisbon referendum held promotion. :(


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    #4
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    InFront wrote: »
    The obvious answer would be that a blasphemy referendum is not economically viable, but the Lisbon Treaty is worth the cost in terms of monetary return.

    As a letter writer to one of the papers wrote recently, we must be a very poor country indeed if we can't afford free speech.


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    #5
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    As a letter writer to one of the papers wrote recently, we must be a very poor country indeed if we can't afford free speech.
    And how long did the judge give him?


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    #6
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    InFront wrote: »
    And how long did the judge give him?

    Not wishing to go off topic but that one can question the lack of free speech in a country does not mean there is necessarily free speech ;)


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    #7
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    I'm not sure I'd agree fully with that. Meanwhile, this legislation doesn't automatically mean a cancellation of freedom of speech any more than the current incitement to hatred legislation already in place.

    You can be pretty sure if there had been a referendum on this issue people would have asked had the Government not got something better to do - i.e. sort out an ailing economy.
    And they'd be right. It's not just the cost of it. Who actually thinks this is an opportune time do embark in a big national debate involving the Taoiseach and the cabinet trying to fight a pointless referendum? Personally I'd rather all hands on deck with the economy.

    Filling the gap in the constitutional breach is like polyfiller. It's quick and easy and isn't intended to be there for the long term.


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    #8
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Fair enough but then surely a referendum on reorganising the E.U and tidying it can wait until we sort out our economy, right?

    To steal your own phrase and twist it a little,
    You can be pretty sure when there is another referendum on this issue people will ask had the Government not got something better to do - i.e. sort out an ailing economy.
    And they'd be right. It's not just the cost of it. Who actually thinks this is an opportune time do embark in a big national debate again involving the Taoiseach and the cabinet trying to fight a referendum again? Personally I'd rather all hands on deck with the economy.

    Sure why not run the two together on the same day? That's a huge money saver there, right?


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    #9
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Fair enough but then surely a referendum on reorganising the E.U and tidying it can wait until we sort out our economy, right?

    To steal your own phrase and twist it a little,
    You can be pretty sure when there is another referendum on this issue people will ask had the Government not got something better to do - i.e. sort out an ailing economy.
    And they'd be right. It's not just the cost of it. Who actually thinks this is an opportune time do embark in a big national debate again involving the Taoiseach and the cabinet trying to fight a referendum again? Personally I'd rather all hands on deck with the economy.

    A reform of the institutions that regulate the European common market is hardly irrelevant to the Irish economy. Those are the same institutions that have already given our banks €120 billion of credit (up to March).
    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Sure why not run the two together on the same day? That's a huge money saver there, right?

    Two different debates, though.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #10
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    A reform of the institutions that regulate the European common market is hardly irrelevant to the Irish economy. Those are the same institutions that have already given our banks €120 billion of credit (up to March).
    Seems to be operating fine to me but would you care to suggest what part of the Lisbon treaty would directly improve the Irish economy?
    Two different debates, though.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    I never said they weren't but I have faith in the population to devise two separate opinions on separate issues at the same time without any confusion.


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    #11
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Seems to be operating fine to me but would you care to suggest what part of the Lisbon treaty would directly improve the Irish economy?

    That wasn't what I said, was it, though? We're part of the European market, our economy is part of the European economy, and our monetary system is part of the European monetary system - all things that the EU exists primarily to look after. It may seem to be operating fine to you, but the people working directly with it don't seem to agree with you - I'm not sure many would say that either the Irish economy or more generally the European economy are 'working well', either.
    ShooterSF wrote: »
    I never said they weren't but I have faith in the population to devise two separate opinions on separate issues at the same time without any confusion.

    Sure, but we're talking about the two different debates happening at the same time.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #12
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    Blasphemy law is not an issue for ordinary decent people right now, nor for those who have lost their jobs. They're thinking about mortgages, college fees, childminders, the ESB bill.
    The country is not losing sleep over an academic exercise regarding a legislative anomaly surrounding blasphemy and wouldn't appreciate a Government occupying themselves with it while the economy collapses around their ears.
    what part of the Lisbon treaty would directly improve the Irish economy?
    As Scofflaw has said, there is the slight issue of the EU and its institutions. Voting on Lisbon gives us - the Irish people - a say in the future operations of one of the most important banks in the world i.e. the ECB. I don't think most people would want to impede its progress.


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