motor tax on a twin cab hilux

Farls

Limerick man wrote: »

And what's the point of a crewcab?

Your question makes no sense to me? What your saying is that a crew cab should ONLY be used as a commercial vehicle?

L-M

Well yes, unless you tax it privately.

What are crewcabs? Well they are made to hold a minimum of one driver and three passengers (ie. More than a van), and with a storage area separated from the cab. Crew cabs are made to carrying goods, and as long as you do your doe etc. it can be taxed commercially.

By law, the carriage of passengers in a crew cab vehicle is only legal during the time in which they are working, ie. paid, not going to or coming from work. If a crew cab is used in any other way, then the passeneger tax rate is payable.

It's simple, they are only for commercial use. You bought one, you knew there was commercial tax on it, and if you didn't read the ins and outs of it, well that's tough on yours behalf.

Slidey

If you are not going to use exclusively as a commercial vehicle than maybe you should have to pay tax based on your cc/co2 just like cars or passenger jeeps.

If they force people to tax these vehicles privately then who is going to test them?

The DOE cannot test a privately taxed vehicle and the NCT currently wont test privately taxed vans..

jwshooter

i made a call this morning on it ,if you have it for 3 years and get stopped they will look for back tax and vrt on it

Owen

Limerick man wrote: »

They can do you for taxing it and vrting it commercially, and then using it outside of business hours/use.

When I drove vans, I would regularly get stopped on a saturday night and tormented by the Gards about this. The simple answer to shut them up was that I'm on call 24/7, and on my way to do a job. They can't refute it if you're business hours are non-standard.

L-M

ned78 wrote: »

When I drove vans, I would regularly get stopped on a saturday night and tormented by the Gards about this. The simple answer to shut them up was that I'm on call 24/7, and on my way to do a job. They can't refute it if you're business hours are non-standard.

Aye, and you are bringing the family with you and the weekends luggage? If you can show you're on call 24/7, then fair enough.

Farls

Limerick man wrote: »

Well yes, unless you tax it privately.

What are crewcabs? Well they are made to hold a minimum of one driver and three passengers (ie. More than a van), and with a storage area separated from the cab. Crew cabs are made to carrying goods, and as long as you do your doe etc. it can be taxed commercially.

By law, the carriage of passengers in a crew cab vehicle is only legal during the time in which they are working, ie. paid, not going to or coming from work. If a crew cab is used in any other way, then the passeneger tax rate is payable.

It's simple, they are only for commercial use. You bought one, you knew there was commercial tax on it, and if you didn't read the ins and outs of it, well that's tough on yours behalf.

What your saying is right to a certain extent but as with most things in Ireland it makes no sense that you pay commercial VRT on a private vehicle?

Is it ok if I buy say a ford transit and tax it commercially and use it privately?

I think where your going there with 'they are only for commercial use' is well off track though. If thats the case then what use is cruise control, sat nav, mp3 player, leather seats, iso fixing for baby seats in the back etc??

I knew they could be taxed privately or commercially at the time of buying but my point was in the tax office there was no mention of any of this and they taxed it commercially for me, and that was only 2 months ago!

Farls

jwshooter wrote: »

i made a call this morning on it ,if you have it for 3 years and get stopped they will look for back tax and vrt on it

Who did you call?

The rate of VRT applicable to Category B vehicles, subject to a minimum VRT of €125, is 13.3% of the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP).

And thats from the VRT website so are they going to make up a figure for these vehicles? Crew Cabs are listed as Category B vehicles full stop. Private or commercial use does not come into play here.

As for back tax, how is that going to work...they refund what you have paid and re-tax it then correctly? Surely you would have to be fined for not being taxed and possibly have the vehicle seized?...:pac:

L-M

Farls wrote: »

What your saying is right to a certain extent but as with most things in Ireland it makes no sense that you pay commercial VRT on a private vehicle?

I'm not too sure on that, but AFAIK if you bring it in and want to tax it privately, more VRT may be payable on it. I'm not sure though, I'd have to ring the VRO.

Is it ok if I buy say a ford transit and tax it commercially and use it privately?

No, why would it be?

I think where your going there with 'they are only for commercial use' is well off track though. If thats the case then what use is cruise control, sat nav, mp3 player, leather seats, iso fixing for baby seats in the back etc??

Creature comforts, of a high spec model. Maybe the company wants the employee to have comfort on his/her travels? You can buy basic spec Navara's etc., and a Defender crewcab doesn't even come standard with a radio.

I knew they could be taxed privately or commercially at the time of buying but my point was in the tax office there was no mention of any of this and they taxed it commercially for me, and that was only 2 months ago!

It's like anything, if you are paying commercial tax, you know well you are avoiding something. If you knew they could be taxed privately, and you would be using it for some private use, why didn't you tax it privately?

I'm not having a go at you here, it's just this law was there the whole time and just never enforced. It's like the Learner driver thing, it was always there and never enforced. Then they went mad and enforced it, people caused an up roar "Oh how am I supposed to get to work", pass your test, that's how you'll get to work. It's the same thing with the crewcabs, if they even do buckle down on it.

Farls

Limerick man wrote: »

I'm not too sure on that, but AFAIK if you bring it in and want to tax it privately, more VRT may be payable on it. I'm not sure though, I'd have to ring the VRO.

Rang Monaghan there and as usual no answer! I would highly doubt if you ask to VRT it 'privately as a Category A vehicle' that they will be able to accommodate that. Doubt it was thought of when the system was put in place.

Limerick man wrote: »

No, why would it be?

Because its basically the same thing...commercial tax used in a private manner.

Limerick man wrote: »

Creature comforts, of a high spec model. Maybe the company wants the employee to have comfort on his/her travels? You can buy basic spec Navara's etc., and a Defender crewcab doesn't even come standard with a radio.

Or perhaps crew cabs are being aimed at the private market?

Limerick man wrote: »

It's like anything, if you are paying commercial tax, you know well you are avoiding something. If you knew they could be taxed privately, and you would be using it for some private use, why didn't you tax it privately?

I use it as much commercially as I do privately, why would I tax it privately? Just so as to pay more tax? Some might ask me if I had it taxed privately and used it 1 day a week commercially why didn't I tax it commercial?

Limerick man wrote: »

I'm not having a go at you here, it's just this law was there the whole time and just never enforced. It's like the Learner driver thing, it was always there and never enforced. Then they went mad and enforced it, people caused an up roar "Oh how am I supposed to get to work", pass your test, that's how you'll get to work. It's the same thing with the crewcabs, if they even do buckle down on it.

I know your out to get crew cab drivers as a whole, not just me . It's like the new fine and points for no NCT...it will have to be proven in court.

I actually know a Seargeant with a Nissan Navara taxed commercially.

L-M

Farls wrote: »

Because its basically the same thing...commercial tax used in a private manner.

Exactly, that's why you can't do it.

Or perhaps crew cabs are being aimed at the private market?

Maybe they are, so private market = private tax. Very simple.

I use it as much commercially as I do privately, why would I tax it privately? Just so as to pay more tax? Some might ask me if I had it taxed privately and used it 1 day a week commercially why didn't I tax it commercial?

You tax it privately for the reason I said above. If you use it outside of business hours at all, you are supposed to tax it privately. That's why, it's the law.

I actually know a Seargeant with a Nissan Navara taxed commercially.

I know a guard who speeds the whole time, big whoop!:p

Farls

Limerick man wrote: »

Exactly, that's why you can't do it.

It's being done left right and centre though, a few years ago when building was going well every apprentice in the land had a van taxed commercially for work and her shined up to the last for the weekend!

Limerick man wrote: »

Maybe they are, so private market = private tax. Very simple.

You tax it privately for the reason I said above. If you use it outside of business hours at all, you are supposed to tax it privately. That's why, it's the law.

It's the law? What law states this exactly?

The reason I pointed out the Sergeant with the Navara taxed commercially was to highlight that if its the law then how come he doesn't abide by it, surely there is no excuse that a guard could have to tax a vehicle commercially?

Your reference to a guard speeding is a bit tit for tat now, there is plenty excuses they could use for that.

At the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference what the arguments are like I said before a few people will tax their vehicles privately and the rest of us will go with the commercial option and happily so

L-M

Farls wrote: »

It's the law? What law states this exactly?

The Law :P wrote:

Taxation of Crew Cabs

Normal goods or commercial vehicles can only have two/three seats in the front of the vehicle and the rest of the vehicle is for goods carriage only. There is one exception to this rule and this is when the vehicle is used as a Crew Cab. A Crew Cab is a commercial vehicle that is not only used for goods carriage, but also for transport of employees to and from jobs\sites etc.

The carriage of passengers is permitted in a crew cab provided they are employed by the registered owner of the vehicle, the carriage takes place during the course of their employment (only during the time they are paid, not going to or coming from work unless it forms part of the paid working day) and the vehicle is ordinarily used for the conveyance of goods and employees in the course of trade or business.

A crew cab comprises of a cab with seating for a driver and a minimum of 3 passengers and a maximum of 6 passengers. The cargo area to the rear of the cab is completely separated from the cab by a partition, which is permanently fixed. Crew may be taxed as a goods vehicle provided all the necessary requirements are submitted i.e. weight docket, pass statement, crew cab declaration etc.

Applicants should be made aware that if the crew cab is used in any situation other than the above then the higher rate of tax is payable(private). If an applicant wishes to convert the body type on a van from 'van to 'crew cab' he/she should contact the Revenue Commissioners as additional VRT may be payable in this case.

The requirements for taxation a crew cab at the goods rate are similar to those required for the taxation of normal goods vehicle except for the following:

* If a vehicle has been converted to a crew cab it will need to be inspected by an official form the Motor Taxation Section if the applicant intends on taxing the vehicle at the goods rate.
* Applicants are required to complete a “Crew Cab Declaration Form” on the first taxing of the vehicle or on the renewal of taxation following a change in ownership.

Documentation required for first time taxing of a crew cabs at the goods taxation class

* Form RF100. In the case of a new vehicle this document is received by the customer from the garage of purchase, for imported vehicles from the Revenue Commissioners. If the owner does not have a RF100 than a RF100A form can be used.
* Confirmation of current insurance details
* Appropriate Fee
* A weight docket. See weight docket notes
* Goods only declaration is the unladen weight of the vehicle is 1524kg or less
* Certificate of Roadworthiness, if applicable
* Crew cab declaration form

Documentation required for first time taxing of a crew cabs at the private taxation class

* Form RF100. In the case of a new vehicle this document is received by the customer from the garage of purchase, for imported vehicles from the Revenue Commissioners. If the owner does not have a RF100 than a RF100A form can be used.
* Confirmation of current insurance details
* Appropriate Fee

Documentation required when renewing motor tax of a crew cab at the goods taxation class

* Computerised reminder - Motor Tax Renewal Form RF100B - this is the reminder form received from the Vehicle Registration Unit approximately 2 weeks before the tax on the vehicle expires

or

* A fully completed Motor Tax renewal application - Form RF100A should be used in any of the following circumstances:
o For vehicles with an arrears period
o Where the computerised reminder - Form RF100B has not been received, from the Vehicle Registration Unit.
o When there is a period of non-use being declared
* Certificate of Roadworthiness, if applicable.
* Crew cab declaration form. Applicants are require to complete a crew cab declaration form on the first taxing of the vehicle, or on the renewal of taxation following a change in ownership

A goods vehicle only requires a CRW once it has been registered for one year or more i.e. once a vehicle is a year old it requires a CRW

Once tested a Certificate of Roadworthiness lasts for a period of one year.

.

Farls

Where did you get that? The revenue website or off a county council site?

Thats not 'the law' thats nothing more than a set of guidelines. Where does it say 'under road traffic act ...' etc??

There is so many holes in that document that I don't where to start!!

And it leads back to the problem Slidey mentioned about the DOE won't certify a private vehicle and the NCT won't test a van!

peasant

This being Ireland, the tax advantge of commercial over private tax has been abused for decades with all kinds of vehicles and every legal body has turned a blind eye most of the time.

Now the system is in a mess.

Simple solution:

Tax all vehicles private or commercial to the same standard and then allow genuine businesses a way to claim the difference back through their accounts (which also shows the number of emplyees, for the crew-cab question)

Now imagine the outcry if that was pulled off :P

Farls

peasant wrote: »

This being Ireland, the tax advantge of commercial over private tax has been abused for decades with all kinds of vehicles and every legal body has turned a blind eye most of the time.

Now the system is in a mess.

Simple solution:

Tax all vehicles private or commercial to the same standard and then allow genuine businesses a way to claim the difference back through their accounts (which also shows the number of emplyees, for the crew-cab question)

Now imagine the outcry if that was pulled off :P

A plausible solution but one that steps on far too many toes, I think you started off the post with what will always be the outcome, 'This being Ireland'

L-M

Farls wrote: »

Where did you get that? The revenue website or off a county council site?

Thats not 'the law' thats nothing more than a set of guidelines. Where does it say 'under road traffic act ...' etc??

There is so many holes in that document that I don't where to start!!

And it leads back to the problem Slidey mentioned about the DOE won't certify a private vehicle and the NCT won't test a van!

From the revenue site,
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html

And search crewcab here,
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-cars.html

Farls

Limerick man wrote: »

From the revenue site,
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-vans.html

And search crewcab here,
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/benefit-in-kind/private-use-cars.html

Like it says on the links...leaflets, thats all that is. Something for an accountant to work with. I'm on about the charges a guard will take you up on when he stops you, I highly doubt he's going to start quoting the revenue website to you. :pac:

foxhunter

And it leads back to the problem Slidey mentioned about the DOE won't certify a private vehicle and the NCT won't test a van![/QUOTE]


Since the new penalty points system was brought in a few weeks ago for not having an nct or a cert of roadworthyness all the doe centres down this way are flat out testing small car vans that were in limbo because the nct wouldn't test them and you didn't need a doe on them either.
So now if you want a doe on virtually anything it can be done as far as I can see anyway.

Farls

foxhunter wrote: »

And it leads back to the problem Slidey mentioned about the DOE won't certify a private vehicle and the NCT won't test a van!

Since the new penalty points system was brought in a few weeks ago for not having an nct or a cert of roadworthyness all the doe centres down this way are flat out testing small car vans that were in limbo because the nct wouldn't test them and you didn't need a doe on them either.
So now if you want a doe on virtually anything it can be done as far as I can see anyway.

Thats a DOE though for a commercially taxed vehicle...what happens to a privately taxed commercial vehicle that the NCT centres won't entertain? A DOE is completely different test to an NCT. In effect they are pushing people to tax their vehicles commercially so as to have them tested and save a possible 1500 euro fine and 5 pen points!

L-M

Farls wrote: »

Like it says on the links...leaflets, thats all that is. Something for an accountant to work with. I'm on about the charges a guard will take you up on when he stops you, I highly doubt he's going to start quoting the revenue website to you. :pac:

Ok, ingoring the fact they are crewcabs, they are indeed commercial. To which the same laws apply. I know for a fact you not supposed to use a commercially taxed vehicle outside of business hours, but alot of people are "on call 24/7".

Ugh, I just read through alot of legislation.

Farls

Limerick man wrote: »

Ok, ingoring the fact they are crewcabs, they are indeed commercial. To which the same laws apply. I know for a fact you not supposed to use a commercially taxed vehicle outside of business hours, but alot of people are "on call 24/7".

Ugh, I just read through alot of legislation.

Haha if anything this thread has just picked another few holes in already fairly opaque notion.

I agree with you LM what your saying is almost right, I just don't like people telling me something is 'the law' when its actually not. Just because its wrong doesn't necessarily mean its against the law.

I see wexford coco have won some award for their motor tax department! Back to the easiest solution...tax your vehicle in a county that isn't so stringent. You have to love this country.

foxhunter

Farls wrote: »

Thats a DOE though for a commercially taxed vehicle...what happens to a privately taxed commercial vehicle that the NCT centres won't entertain? A DOE is completely different test to an NCT. In effect they are pushing people to tax their vehicles commercially so as to have them tested and save a possible 1500 euro fine and 5 pen points!

No it's not all small car vans such as fiesta/peugeot 307/megane are all on private tax but they are commercial vehicles that's why nct wont test them.
As I said in the previous post the doe centres down here will test anything you bring them because there is nothing in law to say they can't.
So if you have a crew cab taxed private you can still get a doe test no problem.
By the way when I bought the L200 I couldn't get private insurance on it I had to get commercial.

Farls

foxhunter wrote: »

No it's not all small car vans such as fiesta/peugeot 307/megane are all on private tax but they are commercial vehicles that's why nct wont test them.
As I said in the previous post the doe centres down here will test anything you bring them because there is nothing in law to say they can't.
So if you have a crew cab taxed private you can still get a doe test no problem.
By the way when I bought the L200 I couldn't get private insurance on it I had to get commercial.

I get what your saying foxhunter, what I mean though is if you have private tax/insurance then you should have an NCT not a DOE. They are two different things completely. So if you have a commercial vehicle with private documentation and no NCT only a DOE then you could potentially be in bother there!

Who are you insured with? And what type of L200 do you have?

Slidey

foxhunter wrote: »

No it's not all small car vans such as fiesta/peugeot 307/megane are all on private tax but they are commercial vehicles that's why nct wont test them.
As I said in the previous post the doe centres down here will test anything you bring them because there is nothing in law to say they can't.
So if you have a crew cab taxed private you can still get a doe test no problem.
By the way when I bought the L200 I couldn't get private insurance on it I had to get commercial.

You CANNOT test a private vehicle in a test centre.

For a fail or pass cert to be issued we need an ULW. On a private reg vehicle under 'basis for assessment' it has the cc printed. On a commercial it is kg.

What you have to do is get your van weighed at an approved weighbridge and produce that at the tax office with your pass cert. Then when you tax it commercially your log book will be changed.

And yes, DOE centres are flat out. I barely have time to doss at all these days! :cool:

foxhunter

Farls wrote: »

I get what your saying foxhunter, what I mean though is if you have private tax/insurance then you should have an NCT not a DOE. They are two different things completely. So if you have a commercial vehicle with private documentation and no NCT only a DOE then you could potentially be in bother there!

Who are you insured with? And what type of L200 do you have?

I get your point I suppose it's just typical Ireland and the grey area syndrome.
I have a 02 L200 crew cab 4wd and I'm insured with Axa

Farls

On another side but also crew cab worthy note.

You can VRT a new nissan navara crew cab for 50 euro without any modifications.

From the revenue's publication on VRT

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-1.pdf

􀂈
Category C:
This category includes:
􀂈
all large commercial vehicles not falling into Category B;
􀂈
crew cabs with a cargo area length exceeding 45% of the wheelbase and a GVW exceeding 3,500 kilograms;
􀂈
motor caravans exceeding 3,000 kilograms unladen weight;
􀂈
“listed vehicles”;
􀂈
vehicles (excluding motor-cycles) which are more then 30 years old at the time of registration.

http://www.nissan.ie/new_vehicles/specifications.aspx?carid=121&EngineID=51&GradeID=26

And open up the dimensions you'll find the wheelbase of the Navara is 3200mm with a bed length of 1511mm giving you 47% thus placing the Navara into category C.

I would be sickened if I paid 13.3% VRT on one or done like a lad up here and took out seats etc to get it through!

Farls

foxhunter wrote: »

I get your point I suppose it's just typical Ireland and the grey area syndrome.
I have a 02 L200 crew cab 4wd and I'm insured with Axa

Axa can be strange about things alright...their also weird when you insure a NI reg car with them, reckon they will only cover it for 2 months for some ppl and others they pass no remarks on!

Quinns don't seem to pass any remarks, I'm insured through a local brokers with a company called Setanta and they had no problems either.

Slidey

Harris the Isuzu importer is Dublin is recognised as a Vehicle manufacturer in this country.

This means he can re-plate vehicles to different weights than factory.

When the new VRT regulations came in the put an extra leaf and tougher shocks in the rear of the DMAX which brought its unladen weight to 3500kg

Farls

Slidey wrote: »

Harris the Isuzu importer is Dublin is recognised as a Vehicle manufacturer in this country.

This means he can re-plate vehicles to different weights than factory.

When the new VRT regulations came in the put an extra leaf and tougher shocks in the rear of the DMAX which brought its unladen weight to 3500kg

Interesting that, my L200 weighs in at 1960kg, I can't see the DMAX being much different? extra leaves and a heavier shock would hardly bring weight up that much?