So how the hell does this work

pitstop

OK, I just lost ALL sympathy for car dealers! I have 40k CASH in hand to spend.

This week, DH or I went to:

Mercedes to test drive either a new C Class Saloon or Estate - eh, no because they don't have them in stock but do have some ex demos that seem to be a weird order (ie, upgraded grills on lower grade cars??)

Had my heart set on one - so was thinking of settling for one of the ex demos - they were giving 500 off for cash - on...... an.........ex........demo!!! WTF!!

Citroen to test drive C5 Tourer - there isn't one in the country so I can't!!! (but did get a decent enough price)

Audi A4 Avant - again, there isn't one in the country, but they can sell me a saloon!!! but again only getting 1k discount for cash (because they claim the discounted prices on the web exclude delivery and therefore that price is really 2k under the final price).

VW Passat Estate - there isn't one in the country.

So I give up!!

I have a week's holidays next week and I will travel to UK and just buy one and come home with it. I don't really think I will save much (if anything) but I have no intention of giving my money to people who can't be arsed or who WON"T give a decent cash discount.

No need to respond, I just want to vent and shed some clarity on the fact that it would seem car dealers are not just going to the wall because of the recession but because they don't seem to understand that customers need some type of service!

Now I feel better.

Pitsy

mickdw

It does make ya wonder what they are thinking. I mean, here you are a customer with the money not wondering if you will get finance, no trade in, so surely dream client. What does merc dealer try to do, screw you for the price of a new car when selling a demo. I would have got very angry in that situation.

Martron

there is probably 2 ways of looking at this

1. there is no models in the country because they not going to order these models while they have such a huge stock of older models.

2. they are pushing the older models to get rid of them and its good for the books if they off- load a car which rotting on their forecourt rather than bringing in a new one.

How are they going to sell any new car if they are not willing to bring in nw ones???

Stevie Dakota

Hard not to have soe sympathy for dealers, they can't shift mainstream cars and when they don't stock niche models people come of forums and complain.

Martron

well if they dont have what the customer wants they hardly can expect to sell anything.

i am refering to prices also

galwaytt

OP, my used, mint cond 06 Saab 9-3 Combi (estate) is what you need: in stock now ( ), available for test drive, can deliver for test drive, can deliver car.

Oh, and you'll have 20k left over.

Top Dog

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

they can't shift mainstream cars and when they don't stock niche models people come of forums and complain.

VW Passat estate and Audi A4 Avant are niche models now? Since when? There isn't a day goes by that I don't see at least 2 of each model even without leaving the house. Especially the Passat which is a very common family car.

I'll grant you that the C-class estate is very rare, and I've yet to see a C5 estate either.

spank_inferno

An estate car isnt exactly "niche"?

But I'm sure the OP could get a nice mid spec 1.6petrol or 1.9 diesal saloon.

Best thing he could do is take his money over to Blighty and see whats available.

Pyridine

Should've gone to this guy....

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1133800

There seems to be a few "in the country" anyway!

bazzachazza

It makes you sick really.

When I went to buy my car half the dealers didn't even call me back.

Took my mate to look at a new A4 he is a CASH buyer no finance piece of S trade-in which he wasn't even going to trade and the guy wasn't even offering a good deal for straight cash no trade in. Were going to the UK in July to buy one instead.

Also to add I was wasting time the other week and went into a large VW/AUDI/MERC dealer in south county Dublin not yours Chris, and had a look around both the Merc and VW showrooms with my brother in the Merc dealers no one approached us and only as we were leaving the VW showroom did one guy ask did we need any help he remained sitting as he asked. Do these guys actually care if they have a job or not. There not even doing the basic stuff right.

-Chris-

bazzachazza wrote: »

not yours Chris

But if you do have any horror stories/complaints about mine Bazza, make sure to say them (or PM them to me if that's better). You'll never improve if you don't know what you're doing wrong!

ninty9er

To a certain extent, they didn't have what you wanted, which is the root problem, so how likely were you to buy anything else?

Did you ask about ordering any of the specifics you wanted from the factory?

-Chris-

pitstop wrote: »

Audi A4 Avant - again, there isn't one in the country, but they can sell me a saloon!!! but again only getting 1k discount for cash (because they claim the discounted prices on the web exclude delivery and therefore that price is really 2k under the final price).

VW Passat Estate - there isn't one in the country.

We have an A4 Avant in the showroom and a '08 Passat Estate on the forecourt, so you may have just gotten unlucky with the dealer you visited.

On the other hand, if I were ordering for stock, I'd order saloons over Avants all day long - probably only one in twenty cars sold are estate versions (someone may have actual statistics to confirm/deny this).

Berty

As much as I travel -Chris- around the 32 counties I have only ever seen 1 B8 Avant A4 and it was in Cork and was a northern registered car.

Not very popular to be true.


Also I had to try around 7 dealerships to even find an Avensis that could be driven. None of them were interested in getting in stock and said they could not even get demo's for themselves to drive around in.

I was told by one BIG Toyota dealer in Cork City that they will be getting one in in 3 weeks but as it was a customers order I could only drive it around the forecourt. Yeah right.

One Toyota dealer in Limerick told me I would have to wait around 6 months before they would get a Demo Diesel Avensis in BUT I could drive the older shape Avensis with a completely different engine.

Mind boggling.

smcgiff

Couple of points Avants are probably as popular if not more so than saloons on the continent, so shouldn't be a problem for dealers to source.

However, a cash customer is not the preferred option - Dealers would prefer to finance a deal.

With that said, the OP's experiences do not make for good anecdotal evidence.

-Chris-

Berty wrote: »

As much as I travel -Chris- around the 32 counties I have only ever seen 1 B8 Avant A4 and it was in Cork and was a northern registered car.

Not very popular to be true.


Also I had to try around 7 dealerships to even find an Avensis that could be driven. None of them were interested in getting in stock and said they could not even get demo's for themselves to drive around in.

I was told by one BIG Toyota dealer in Cork City that they will be getting one in in 3 weeks but as it was a customers order I could only drive it around the forecourt. Yeah right.

One Toyota dealer in Limerick told me I would have to wait around 6 months before they would get a Demo Diesel Avensis in BUT I could drive the older shape Avensis with a completely different engine.

Mind boggling.

From my side of the desk, it can get more frustrating still:
1) I can't have everything in stock (and it's not my decision anyway), but if I can't show someone a car/bodystyle I run the risk of them viewing it in a competitor and buying there instead.
A prime example of this is the Q5 or TT - there is minimal interest in these vehicles at teh moment, so we are going to try not to tie up money in stocking them, but if you do want to view a Q5 and you walk into our main Audi dealership and we can't show you one, as a customer you're probably fairly perplexed by this.
2) With importing becoming a more common thing we'll start to be embarrassed by non-main VW/Audi dealers in terms of certain stock.
An example of this is the Mk6 Golf GTI. It's been released in the UK, but not in Ireland yet, so I can't show you one but if you go 5 miles down the road to the non-franchised dealer, you can see, try & buy one tomorrow (imported from the UK).

I'm not playing my personal violin btw, I can sympathise with customer frustrations too.

The Jim Reaper

I would take a look at the new Mercedes E Class.

Not yet launched but......

The journo's are saying that it's better than what Audi and BMW are offering.

Here is an article I found in an Irish car magazine.

http://www.drivemagazine.ie/ezine/issue0/pageflip.html

It seems to be a good choice all around.

-Chris-

smcgiff wrote: »

Couple of points Avants are probably as popular if not more so than saloons on the continent, so shouldn't be a problem for dealers to source.

This isn't the continent, and we're not going to stock our garage based on continental trends.
Worldwide, white is the most popular car colour, but if an Irish dealer took this to heart and ordered mostly white cars for stock they'd be out of business pretty quickly.

There's no problem with sourcing Avants (or white cars), but you have to stock your garage with cars that will turn over quickly - saloons over Avants, diesel over petrol, conservative colours, conservative specifications.
There may be a customer out there who wants a white A4 Avant auto petrol V6 with cloth seats, but I'm not going to order one in the hope that I'm lucky enough to have him walk through my door.

smcgiff wrote: »

However, a cash customer is not the preferred option - Dealers would prefer to finance a deal.

Personally, I'd take any customer who wants to buy a car and is realistic about price - with or without trade-in, with or without finance, a sale's a sale.

smcgiff wrote: »

With that said, the OP's experiences do not make for good anecdotal evidence.

Absolutely, and hopefully some dealers read this thread and it rings familiar with them and they improve their practices based on it.

colm_mcm

smcgiff wrote: »

Couple of points Avants are probably as popular if not more so than saloons on the continent, so shouldn't be a problem for dealers to source.

How is this relevant? they drive on the other side of the road over there.... we know the cars exist.

PhoenixRising

I've found a lot of main dealers here don't even have demo models of the marque's most popular models. It wouldn't happen in the UK. When I was buying my Mk5 GTI my local dealer didn't have a GTI demo, and he would have had to borrow a car from some other dealer to give me a test drive. It really put me off doing the deal there. Any VW dealer worth their salt should at least have a GTI demo knocking around I would have thought.

mickdw

I enquired with local audi sales guy about a TT diesel quattro. They dont have one to test drive and couldnt give an indication of when one might be available.
He then said that there were plans by audi ireland to hold a stock of demos of some of the more high performance stuff centrally in dublin so that just one of any model would be needed for the whole country with the cars being made available on appointment. This makes sense for stuff like S8, R8, RS6 whatever. I dont think TT would be included in this idea.
Anyone know if this is true or was he just bull****ing.

colm_mcm

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Any VW dealer worth their salt should at least have a GTI demo knocking around I would have thought.

And a 2.0 TDI and a 1.4, and a 1.4 TSI.... and that's just the Golf. In reality it's not viable for dealers to have every single model on as a demo.

old boy

a family member went into a main ford dealer in co. limerick on friday last and said i have cash for an 03 zafira or its equivelant or something near that discription, only to be told we would not stock any thing like that. surely they could have scourced something, or words to that effect.

Matt Simis

colm_mcm wrote: »

And a 2.0 TDI and a 1.4, and a 1.4 TSI.... and that's just the Golf. In reality it's not viable for dealers to have every single model on as a demo.

His point was the halo, flagship model should always be stocked. I too would look down on a dealer that was too cheap (poor) to stock such cars.

colm_mcm

I think the dealers nowadays will stock what they can sell. they might sell 20 comfortlines for every GTI they sell, I know which I'd have as a demo, flagship or not.

PhoenixRising

Matt Simis wrote: »

His point was the halo, flagship model should always be stocked. I too would look down on a dealer that was too cheap (poor) to stock such cars.

Bingo.

-Chris-

mickdw wrote: »

I enquired with local audi sales guy about a TT diesel quattro. They dont have one to test drive and couldnt give an indication of when one might be available.
He then said that there were plans by audi ireland to hold a stock of demos of some of the more high performance stuff centrally in dublin so that just one of any model would be needed for the whole country with the cars being made available on appointment. This makes sense for stuff like S8, R8, RS6 whatever. I dont think TT would be included in this idea.
Anyone know if this is true or was he just bull****ing.

It used to be that if you didn't have a high-powered car, odds are that MDL would have one and you could borrow one from them.
It seems, now that Audi are running the show, that it's less likely a fleet of this kind will be kept available.

In my case, if a customer needed a drive in an S or RS model and MDL didn't have one, I could normally find a local dealer who did have one on. Now that dealers are looking very closely at their costs, it's far less likely that anyone will have one of those cars in stock.

-Chris-

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think the dealers nowadays will stock what they can sell. they might sell 20 comfortlines for every GTI they sell, I know which I'd have as a demo, flagship or not.

Absolutely, you stock what you can sell.

If you go into a furniture store looking for a couch, do you expect to see a black leather 3-seater, or a hand-built supersoft leather ultra-luxury custom colour oversize model?

Same for PC World - do they stock netbooks and Apple Macs or quad-core gaming megamachines?

PhoenixRising

-Chris- wrote: »

Absolutely, you stock what you can sell.

If you go into a furniture store looking for a couch, do you expect to see a black leather 3-seater, or a hand-built supersoft leather ultra-luxury custom colour oversize model?

Same for PC World - do they stock netbooks and Apple Macs or quad-core gaming megamachines?

That's ridiculous. I wouldn't class a GTI - a flagship model of the brand which VW sell bucket loads of, as falling into the realm of rare, custom or luxury. We really do get sub-standard dealers here. It wouldn't happen in the UK or most other countries in Europe for that matter. I'd be 90% confident that I could walk into any VW dealer in the UK and get a test drive in a GTI demo. Different markets I know, population size, yadda yadda..

And yes, PC World do sell netbooks and Apple Macs. Not sure about the last one. An example of a business trying to cater for a broader range of customers and not just the middle of the road, hedging your bets, 'lets not keep anything expensive in stock' cheap attitude of Irish dealers. I know they are businesses, and are trying to keep costs down but they lose sales by not having demo's for customers to drive.

bazzachazza

No problem what so ever with your dealership Chris just a shame M couldn't match the trade-in price at the time(post that, order was placed elsewhere and I sold my car private). Certainly plan on coming back for another car from yours in a few years if the price is right. M and yourself certainly tried there best and were very honest.

There is a TT 2.0TDI in Grange motors but I, my cousin and dad have had issues with them. Worst of all my dad he called the week it was due in to find out they HADN'T even ordered it. He had waited 11 weeks for it.

I fully understand stocking to demand but to not even have one estate is not good there is a market for them. Hopefully more so now those bloody aweful MPV's are being taxed out of it.

bazzachazza

Latest issue of Whatcar June 2009 does a new Merc E class v BMW 520D v A6 road test.

E class comes last with A6 second. They have the 0-60 time for the A6 wrong it shows its the slowest but there showing the 136 time not the 168 time.

bladebrew

-Chris- wrote: »

Absolutely, you stock what you can sell.

If you go into a furniture store looking for a couch, do you expect to see a black leather 3-seater, or a hand-built supersoft leather ultra-luxury custom colour oversize model?

Same for PC World - do they stock netbooks and Apple Macs or quad-core gaming megamachines?

totally agree with you,i was thinking to have something on order would make it seem more special:)

if a dealer were to have a golf gti around for a few weeks as a demo they would have to knock a good bit off the price when they eventually want to sell it,and therefore lose profit!

and using one car as a demo to cover a few garages is a great idea,i know it has to be booked for a test drive but very few people would buy a high end car on impulse eg. golf gti,kind off a catch 22 situation though

-Chris-

PhoenixRising wrote: »

That's ridiculous. I wouldn't class a GTI - a flagship model of the brand which VW sell bucket loads of, as falling into the realm of rare, custom or luxury. We really do get sub-standard dealers here. It wouldn't happen in the UK or most other countries in Europe for that matter. I'd be 90% confident that I could walk into any VW dealer in the UK and get a test drive in a GTI demo. Different markets I know, population size, yadda yadda..

And yes, PC World do sell netbooks and Apple Macs. Not sure about the last one. An example of a business trying to cater for a broader range of customers and not just the middle of the road, hedging your bets, 'lets not keep anything expensive in stock' cheap attitude of Irish dealers. I know they are businesses, and are trying to keep costs down but they lose sales by not having demo's for customers to drive.

I'm more countering the arguement that the halo model should be the one stocked.
I think every dealer should have a GTI in stock, but if you gave me the choice between stocking either a GTI or a 2.0TDi Comfortline, I wouldn't be long making my decision.

Fishtits

"OK, I just lost ALL sympathy for car dealers! I have 40k CASH in hand to spend.

This week, DH or I went to:

Mercedes to test drive either a new C Class Saloon or Estate - eh, no because they don't have them in stock but do have some ex demos that seem to be a weird order (ie, upgraded grills on lower grade cars??)

Had my heart set on one - so was thinking of settling for one of the ex demos - they were giving 500 off for cash - on...... an.........ex........demo!!! WTF!!

Citroen to test drive C5 Tourer - there isn't one in the country so I can't!!! (but did get a decent enough price)

Audi A4 Avant - again, there isn't one in the country, but they can sell me a saloon!!! but again only getting 1k discount for cash (because they claim the discounted prices on the web exclude delivery and therefore that price is really 2k under the final price).

VW Passat Estate - there isn't one in the country.

So I give up!!

I have a week's holidays next week and I will travel to UK and just buy one and come home with it. I don't really think I will save much (if anything) but I have no intention of giving my money to people who can't be arsed or who WON"T give a decent cash discount.

No need to respond, I just want to vent and shed some clarity on the fact that it would seem car dealers are not just going to the wall because of the recession but because they don't seem to understand that customers need some type of service!

Now I feel better.

Pits"

Unreasonable Punter IMHO.

You want something that is off the mainstream by a megaton, garages are struggling to stay afloat, you bitch because they haven't anticipated your wet dream? and have one for you to test drive?

Your potential purchase mix confounds conventional marketing thinking... from a Merc to a Passat... in fairness, mate, decide what you want, then go searching, at the mo you're a 40k itchy who hasn't decided what you want. happy to bitch about all & sundry... Decide what you want. Then you can bitch.

-Chris-

Take a deep breath there Fishtits...

*Kol*

I can see where fishtits is coming from though.

It is bad timing for the OP to have €40k to spend in the middle of a recession whilst dealers are trying to survive by stocking the cars that they think will sell. Damn inconsiderate of them not to have GTI's, estate etc for him to test drive. Of course the reality is in Ireland that estates are not that popular now or any time. And given the current financial situation of the general population there are less and less people investing in run of the mill vehicles at the moment never mind GTI's, TT's etc.

Although reading this thread has prompted me to investigate further into a TT TDI!!

ninty9er

PhoenixRising wrote: »

That's ridiculous. I wouldn't class a GTI - a flagship model of the brand which VW sell bucket loads of, as falling into the realm of rare, custom or luxury.................Different markets I know, population size, yadda yadda..

Answered the question yourself there.

There are 41 VW dealers in Ireland. If each of them were to stock a Passat Variant and a Golf GTI demo model constantly there would soon be 0 VW dealers in the country, a lot of people would be out of work and a ot of creditors would be left to bear the brunt.

PhoenixRising wrote: »

And yes, PC World do sell netbooks and Apple Macs. Not sure about the last one.

The last one is the GTI model he was making the point about.

bazzachazza wrote: »

I fully understand stocking to demand but to not even have one estate is not good there is a market for them. Hopefully more so now those bloody aweful MPV's are being taxed out of it.

If there was a market, people would order them after driving a similar saloon model. The market is defined by supply and demand. Demand pull rests in Ireland, supply push is based in Germany. If you want it ORDER IT, the same way I don't test use a Dell 4gb XPS M1730 with speaker upgrade and multimedia screen, I have to order it in good faith, and God knows we spend more of our lives using your computer these days than driving.

And there's 3/4 B8 A4 Avants around Limerick.

PhoenixRising

ninty9er wrote: »

Answered the question yourself there.

There are 41 VW dealers in Ireland. If each of them were to stock a Passat Variant and a Golf GTI demo model constantly there would soon be 0 VW dealers in the country, a lot of people would be out of work and a ot of creditors would be left to bear the brunt.

If having a GTI and Passat demo in stock as a sales tool would cause all VW dealers to go under then things must be worse than I feared in the Irish motor industry. Economies of scale granted, it's still a sad state of affairs for Irish buyers that more demo's aren't made available here.

Zube

PhoenixRising wrote: »

things must be worse than I feared in the Irish motor industry.

You're beginning to get it.

But things are much worse than that.

Alun

When I lived in Holland, the importer for VAG had a number of demo models available themselves, and if you were looking for a test drive and a dealer didn't have anything suitable, you could go to the importer's place and do a test drive there. Alternatively the dealer could arrange to borrow the importer's demo model for a day. Seemed like a good solution.

pitstop

So I truly get all this and appreciate the varied posts for all sides - it makes an interesting discussion. Two thoughts:

I don't expect every garage to have every model - that would be ridiculous - however I DO EXPECT the garage to be able to locate standard line models somewhere in this country - I did offer to travel to test drive and still buy with the person who put the effort into dealing with me (and sorry, I don't believe in not test driving, the investment is TOTALLY different to buying a computer (in my book, anyway)). But you know, it's not even that - it's when my question was asked and the answer was along the lines of: ""are you mad???"" OR "you really don't want that car, you want this model here in my showroom". And the most annoying aspect, with the exception of ONE garage, EVERY dealer I met was exactly the same. I still understand there are many out there who are not like that but there are also many who are.

Secondly, while it is interesting to hear the reasons why garages can't sell me what I want, I'm just annoyed that I have to go to another country. REALLY ANNOYED. I am actually, this very minute, trying to see if one car I saw might work, if I overlook a few things - I really do believe in supporting Irish, but I'm not sure the guys I am dealing with want to help me do that! So either I go abroad or I compromise - who loses out - the garage.

To whomever said I didn't know what I want because my list was so varied. Not True, I have a list of criteria, no car meets the all, but some of this list get close in various areas - hence the broad spectrum. That Mercedes is fantastic to drive (in my book) but you know, not so fantastic that I willing to limit by space with two small kids and lots of sailing gear - hence the Passat - etc etc etc.

Update: Just heard back from the option I was thinking of - he is not willing to move on price for cash - it is per stated on the website - I give up. I am in the UK from this evening and phoned a dealer close to where I am working from - he has one of the estates in his showroom and will have a 2nd option for me to test drive on Wednesday. The difference in service is just crazy!!

Pitsy

-Chris-

Thanks for the update/feedback Pitsy!

phonebox

Fly to UK.

Buy a BRAND NEW 520d M Sport with leather.

Catch a west end musical and stay in a nice 5 star hotel.

Drive back next day.

Cost = less than 40,000 Euro

Guill

I had a great couple of experiences in Ireland when buting a new car,

We went into one garage and the showman wouldn't come out to show us cars as it was raining! Another guy said he didn't have any astra's but would try and get some in for us to look at but when we said there were three in the yard he said oh well two have flat tyres and one has no battery so call back next week and he'll TRY to have one ready for us to test drive. The third place wouldn't come out in the rain and just gave us the keys of the car to look at! after we waiting 30mins for him to get round to seeing us... Must e no ressesion on for these lads!

I ended up gettin a Mazda 3 1.6 Diesel in Bermingham off AutoQuake.com.

Was great we flew to Bermingham in the morning, got the car and on the way home my brother inlaw bought an astra 1.6 slx petrol after the Salesman spendin 2 hours showing him it and letting us use him computer to calculate the VRT and find out what his insurance would be. drove 2 cars home in 3 hours and never had any issue with them.

back in ireland we went to get Opel mats for the car in a local opel dealership and the guy behind the counter said he didn't have any, they were hanging on the shelf over his head!!!!! When i pointedthis out he said 'Agh you dont want them ones they are too dear, go to tescos and get a cheaper set!" E-Bay got our money that day.

They must be dying to go out of business in Ireland!

Drummerboy08

phonebox wrote: »

Fly to UK.

Buy a BRAND NEW 520d M Sport with leather.

Catch a west end musical and stay in a nice 5 star hotel.

Drive back next day.

Cost = less than 40,000 Euro

Does this sound familiar? :rolleyes:

R.O.R

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Does this sound familiar? :rolleyes:

I was hoping he'd give us a full breakdown of the costs involved, and how much cheaper it works out than buying in Ireland

Anyway, back OT before the Mods get us..........

It is very frustrating, but probably even more so for the dealers involved. I can't imagine any of them don't want to sell you a car (and make some money in the process), but in a lot of cases they aren't being allowed to order new stock without the old stock going first.

Last week I had a signed customer order for a Mazda 6 Exec SE Diesel 5dr in Flat Black. I was told by my dealer there were non in the country in the 2.0Tdi version. The 2.2 Tdi versions that came in to the country are all Sport models with the 160bhp version of the engine.

Usually this isn't a problem, 10-12 weeks worst case scenario for factory order. In this case though, if it isn't in stock now you can't order and there are no Diesel SE Exec models due to come through until next YEAR!

Luckily another supplier had a 4dr in the showroom and they gave me the metallic (black) for free to get rid of it.

Drummerboy08

I was waiting for the same thing R.O.R. :rolleyes:;)

Anyhow, we've been getting a bit of the same lately, especially with Insignia's. Any of the SC's that have been brought in, are fitted with plus packs, but when you try to get one with out the pack, its where the problems begin.

Guill

Flights to Berminham for 3 people: 150E with ryanair.
Taxi to GArage £30.
Cant remember but between the 2 cars we bought and including VRT and filling tanks we saved over 8000E.
Boat home 129E.

Saving loads of cash: Priceless

-Chris-

phonebox wrote: »

Fly to UK.

Buy a BRAND NEW 520d M Sport with leather.

Catch a west end musical and stay in a nice 5 star hotel.

Drive back next day.

Cost = less than 40,000 Euro

All joking aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a breakdown of where you're getting these figures phonebox.

Guill

http://www.autoquake.com/cars/make-bmw/bodytype-saloon/model-5_series

Check these out and compare them to Euro price in Ireland and see.

-Chris-

What's the VAT & VRT on the car? I've done the sums for a couple of customers on used cars recently, and the ROI price has been within a grand of the UK imported price.