yet another attic conversion

waitingforBB

Hi all,
after much deliberation and quotes, I decided to just get the indidual tradesmen in and go with my conversion bit by bit. First step is the stairs, hoping to get that in over the next 3 weeks.
Im an absolute novice at this and as my wife says I probably will regret not getting a builder / PM / contractor to do the job start to finish. But I was really pissed off with the range of quotes (from 27K - 11K) for what I need.
So stairs going in, I'll then have the electrician and plumber (2 rads) come in. However, I have conflicting advice from the various people that have quoted so far. At the moment there is insulation up in the attic (the type that is blown in, pink stuff everywhere). First builder sad leave it there and floor over it (seems strange, but then again I know nothing), then insulate the roof area. The last chippie that came in said remove it and just insulate the roof area.
If I want to use the eaves as storage, I'll put down some chipboard. My own thoughts would be to leave the insulation thats there in the eaves and remove it from everywhere else.
Then the only area I need insulation is on the roof (as well as the two gables). By the way its a 2 story detached. If I have the floor of the eaves and the roof insulated all over, I dont imagine I need to insulate the slabs that will go against the purloins?

thoughts / advice welcome

Joey the lips

On removing the Insulation its a catch 22! If you leave it there you will bounce the heat rising from the house back down. This is fine if the rads are specified correctly in the attic! If you take it up the attic will have added warmth of the heat rising. I think your idea is best! Take it up under the floor space thats in use in the attic and leave it down under the eves,Then sheet the eves for storage! just be careful make sure when the attic tank is removed the Insulation under it is moved. Also note! a little unknow fact is that when you move the attic tank under the eves it usually effects the water pressure to the ensuite shower so have the plumber install a 1.5 bar booser pump to the ensuite. If your putting a shower in the attic you will need a negative head shower pump the plumber can branch this off to the attic and ensuite!

If you have not got an ensuite this wont be a problem!

I take it your fitting steel in the attic! I would use the services of a Architect or Building services foreman as you might need a cert to sell the house later! Consider dooring off the room so it can be declared an official room!

Have you thought of fitting a solar panel and cylinder while your at it!

Carlow52

Just wonder who will carry the can for ensuring the requirements set out here are complied with.
http://www.environ.ie/en/TGD/ see two loft conversion documents on RHS under publications and documents
there are important fire requirements here

Personally I don't see any merit in removing the insulation

what exactly have u in mind for insulation between the roof rafters: lets say they are 125mm deep and assume u have a non breathable felt?

waitingforBB

Thankd for the replies. I think the builder of the house planned on converting this space as the tank is already in the eaves. I dont plan on any shower / toilets in the attic. Didnt plan on any steel up there.
Thinking of the solar panels alright. if so will do it before I floor

Joey the lips

waitingforBB wrote: »

Thankd for the replies. I think the builder of the house planned on converting this space as the tank is already in the eaves. I dont plan on any shower / toilets in the attic. Didnt plan on any steel up there.
Thinking of the solar panels alright. if so will do it before I floor

If no plans for steel where is the load going to be supported! This will be a problem! it will also I imagine make the conversion UNSAFE!

Solar panel plumbing is done first becuase you will require a new solar cylinder and this will involve a lot of work.

waitingforBB

Hey Joey. Its a 4 storey detached house so there are load bearing walls on teh second floor on top of hollow core.
All the builders that have been out have not mentioned or quoted for steel

Joey the lips

waitingforBB wrote: »

Hey Joey. Its a 4 storey detached house so there are load bearing walls on teh second floor on top of hollow core.
All the builders that have been out have not mentioned or quoted for steel

If none of them mentioned it thats fine but I take it they are cutting the vertical joist in the attic I can thing of there name, I would just wonder how they are transfering the load but if no one has said it I would say your ok.

TaxiManMartin

waitingforBB wrote: »

Hi all,
after much deliberation and quotes, I decided to just get the indidual tradesmen in and go with my conversion bit by bit. First step is the stairs, hoping to get that in over the next 3 weeks.
Im an absolute novice at this and as my wife says I probably will regret not getting a builder / PM / contractor to do the job start to finish. But I was really pissed off with the range of quotes (from 27K - 11K) for what I need.
So stairs going in, I'll then have the electrician and plumber (2 rads) come in. However, I have conflicting advice from the various people that have quoted so far. At the moment there is insulation up in the attic (the type that is blown in, pink stuff everywhere). First builder sad leave it there and floor over it (seems strange, but then again I know nothing), then insulate the roof area. The last chippie that came in said remove it and just insulate the roof area.
If I want to use the eaves as storage, I'll put down some chipboard. My own thoughts would be to leave the insulation thats there in the eaves and remove it from everywhere else.
Then the only area I need insulation is on the roof (as well as the two gables). By the way its a 2 story detached. If I have the floor of the eaves and the roof insulated all over, I dont imagine I need to insulate the slabs that will go against the purloins?

thoughts / advice welcome

Hi WaitingforBB,
My parents are thinking of getting the attic done. But before that they just want a stairs up to it.
Just out of interest what quotes are you getting for the individual jobs. eg stair, windows etc.

Thanks

harly1516

agree with joey very hard to get a cert without steel and you will never sell the house without a cert

waitingforBB

Do I need a cert if its non habitable accomodation?

harly1516

Anything that interferes with the structure of your house you need a cert 100% cert needed or you never sell the house be very careful about someone that is doing the work and not giving you a cert its very hard to get someone that was'nt involved in the work to certifed it

TaxiManMartin

harly1516 wrote: »

Anything that interferes with the structure of your house you need a cert 100% cert needed or you never sell the house be very careful about someone that is doing the work and not giving you a cert its very hard to get someone that was'nt involved in the work to certifed it

not these days its not

Carlow52

waitingforBB wrote: »

Hey Joey. Its a 4 storey detached house so there are load bearing walls on teh second floor on top of hollow core.
All the builders that have been out have not mentioned or quoted for steel

So this is a fifth storey:) with LB walls at 2nd floor

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

not these days its not

Not from people with proper insurance

waitingforBB

sorry, typo. Its a 2 story with block walls in first and second story.
I really wasnt aware that I needed a cert of compliance to do what Im planning as none of the people who quoted mentioned it.
when I had the structural engineer assess the property before I bought it, he said it was fine to floor and access the attic space. There is no modification of trusses etc. the space is open and there are velux windows installed.
so if I were to just put attic stairs in and go ahead with the same work would I need a cert? Not sure what type of work necessitates having a cert?

Thanks for the comments

Joey the lips

waitingforBB wrote: »

sorry, typo. Its a 2 story with block walls in first and second story.
I really wasnt aware that I needed a cert of compliance to do what Im planning as none of the people who quoted mentioned it.
when I had the structural engineer assess the property before I bought it, he said it was fine to floor and access the attic space. There is no modification of trusses etc. the space is open and there are velux windows installed.
so if I were to just put attic stairs in and go ahead with the same work would I need a cert? Not sure what type of work necessitates having a cert?

Thanks for the comments

I wonder does the structural engineer think you will be only using it as storage? I only know I case where a lad who got a house built he put in thicker joists at the beginning to allow for future attic conversion but like I say this was a self build. I dont know any case timber frame or block where steel was not required. I am afraid to advise you to much incase I cost you money but my instinct is to get a second opinion. I hope this helps.

The problem with putting the stairs in and then later requiring the steel you will end up with an additional step on the stairs.

ifah

OP - you need to get some one to spec this out for you properly - there is a huge difference between using an attic floored for storage and having direct access to it which will allow more than one person occupy the space in a usable fashion.

1st question - what is the spec of the ceiling joists you propose to put the floor on top of ? They need to be 9x2's to allow for a safe load (possibly 7x2 if centres are very short).

Did you get a breakdown from each of the builders that you had in to quote ?

Before you decide to put in a stairs - you need to work out whether the existing joists are suitable as load bearing - if not remedy this by either installing steel rsj's and hanging 9x2's from them or if your load bearing walls are suitably sited you could support the 9x2's from them.

waitingforBB

Thanks. The joists are 7*2 and both engineer and builder maintain that they would be suitable for load bearing. Had another stairs guy in today and he reckons no problem to put stairs up with existing joists and walls