It's Official: we have the EU's highest paid and least productive civil servants

RATM

New research has found that Ireland's civil servants are the highest paid and least productive the in the EU.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irish-civil-servants-have-best-deal-in-eu-study-shows-1749381.html

Irish public-sector workers are better paid and are less productive than civil servants in other European Union countries, according to a study conducted by a leading Irish academic.

Public-sector workers earn an average of €50,000 a year -- 32 per cent more than private-sector workers, who are on an average wage of €38,000.

That was before the last round of public pay increases.

As the private sector is decimated by rising unemployment and wage cuts, the study, by Dublin economist Anthony Foley, paints a dramatic picture of runaway expenditure that is soaking up huge amounts of tax and crippling the Irish economy.

"The recent and sudden reduction in tax revenues suggests that the affordability of the public sector is a critical and urgent issue," says Mr Foley.

He adds that public-sector efficiency is another critical matter for Government.

As nurses and teachers protest about pay and conditions, it has emerged that the Departments of Health and Education are at the heart of the country's growing financial crisis.

Between 1998 and 2007 the pay bill for the Department of Health has increased by 193 per cent to (€2.4bn to €7.2 bn) and the Department of Education by 155 per cent (€2.2bn to €5.6bn).

More frightening is that the vast majority of increases in staff numbers in the Department of Health was made up of administrative/management employees and not frontline nurses and doctors.

Mr Foley is a senior lecturer in economics at Dublin City University Business School.

He says: "There is evidence to suggest that public servants in Ireland are higher paid than elsewhere" -- and he includes the EU and the OECD countries in his calculations.

"Public-sector employment growth has greatly exceeded the growth in population," he adds.

His assessment is contained in the current issue of Administration.

I find it absolutely staggering that in less than 10 years the Dept of Health's wage bill rose by 192%. Since 1997 the three Ministers of Health we have had are Brian Cowen, Michael Martin and Mary Harney. Like what the fook were they thinking? Especially Harney who likes to cast herself as a 'reformer'. The only thing that is getting reformed is the bank accounts of her employees imho.

Ass

If you remember back to about a year ago, we were also one of the richest countries in the world with relation to our population. But lets take things out of context because doing that is fun.

Wibbs

It's not the monies paid that would be my issue, it's the glorious lack of consistent results paid for out of the public purse. It actually makes it worse that we were one of the richest countries per head.

Wertz

Rich on paper...paper those same civil servants and the politicians who's asses they wipe, seemed unable to read, so they went on rewarding themselves pay rises, perks, pensions and and new offices. The writing was on the wall for years as to where it was all headed...these clowns just either didn't get that or carried on, oblivious (or simply not giving a f*ck) where all this outlandish spending would land the whole lot of us...

glaston

Ass wrote: »

If you remember back to about a year ago, we were also one of the richest countries in the world with relation to our population. But lets take things out of context because doing that is fun.

I dont see how that puts it into context.
We were inefficient and pouring money down the toilet...ah but sure that was grand cause there was lots of it.

?

mikemac

Not to worry.
Just as benching marking gave them pay rises when it was decided they were underpaid, a fair benchmarking system will reduce pay if it's decided they are overpaid.

That's how the system work right? It's a fair system right? What do you mean it only works one way? :eek:

Caoimhín

Ass wrote: »

If you remember back to about a year ago, we were also one of the richest countries in the world with relation to our population. But lets take things out of context because doing that is fun.

I think the figures you are referring to took property values into the equation. And we all know that property values were outrageously overpriced.

Still, I dont see what you mean by taking things out of context, what context do you mean?

ArseBurger

Ass wrote: »

If you remember back to about a year ago, we were also one of the richest countries in the world with relation to our population.

No, Ireland was not. There is a massive difference between GDP and GNP - especially when they have a large differential.

Getting it wrong and thinking we were RICH RICH RICH got Ireland into the ****heap it's in now.

Don't just blame the government and the banks. People brought this on themselves - they have to share the blame.

Nolanger

The Civil Service is full of 'nice' people. It's more important to act nice than be productive or intelligent. We're in this recession because the Finance dept has too many of these people and not enough qualified economists/accountants/finance heads.

nesf

The thread was locked before it was moved from AH, that is why it was closed previously. I'm reopening, enjoy ranting about public sector wages, guys..

Ass

Woah! For a minute there I thought I was unbanned from AH.

P. Breathnach

nesf wrote: »

The thread was locked before it was moved from AH, that is why it was closed previously. I'm reopening, enjoy ranting about public sector wages, guys..

Thanks for the explanation. I was surprised to see a public sector bashing thread locked before jimmmy found it.

Perhaps OP will explain the use of the word "Official" in the header. And what the difference is between civil servants and public servants. And how many nurses are on the payroll of the Department of Health. Et cetera.

nesf

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And what the difference is between civil servants and public servants.

The article is actually about public servants as a whole despite the wording in the OP's post.

capsubsidy.com

Ass wrote: »

If you remember back to about a year ago, we were also one of the richest countries in the world with relation to our population. But lets take things out of context because doing that is fun.

You seem to be mixing up wealth with debt. They're not the same.

As for the increase in the PS bill, that's hardly a surprise. If you want to see the figures, just look here



All these figures were taken from the Irish Government's budget website.

Ass

capsubsidy.com wrote: »

You seem to be mixing up wealth with debt. They're not the same.

As for the increase in the PS bill, that's hardly a surprise. If you want to see the figures, just look here



All these figures were taken from the Irish Government's budget website.

Hi, I don't care.


I was trolling in AH before it was moved.

weiss

What I'd really love to see is a breakdown of full time staff employed in the public sector over the last 20 years.

capsubsidy.com

Ass wrote: »

Hi, I don't care.


I was trolling in AH before it was moved.

ok fair enough

capsubsidy.com

weiss wrote: »

What I'd really love to see is a breakdown of full time staff employed in the public sector over the last 20 years.

what sort of breakdown? I wonder if you could get access to what you need using a FOI request?

weiss

Ass wrote:

Hi, I don't care.


I was trolling in AH before it was moved.

its a common response by the public sector employees on these forums...they're all around us

weiss

capsubsidy.com wrote:

what sort of breakdown? I wonder if you could get access to what you need using a FOI request?

Not sure, might take a while

Just the job descriptions of staff employed, what their purpose is.

cyclopath2001

nesf wrote: »

The article is actually about public servants as a whole despite the wording in the OP's post.

More importantly it appeared in the 'Indo', a paper whose cost has increased hugely in the past 10 years while its journalistic standards have gone from bad to dismal.

P. Breathnach

nesf wrote: »

The article is actually about public servants as a whole despite the wording in the OP's post.

Somebody should have a word with the people in the Indo. The heading in the paper is "Irish civil servants have best deal in EU, study shows" (inelegant as well as inexact). The piece itself opens with "Irish public-sector workers are better paid and are less productive than civil servants in other European Union countries...".

[What's Foley's research and publication record like? I hadn't noticed anything by him.]

weiss

P. Breathnach wrote:

What's Foley's research and publication record like? I hadn't noticed anything by him

Tony Foley is a senior lecturer and is head of the economics finance and entrepreneurship group in dcubs. He was formerly the Director of the Local Government MBA programme and executive MBA inDCU Business School. He is also formerly executive dean and head of executive education. He lectures on the topics of international trade . industrial development and Irish economic analysis. He received his primary degree in economics and politics from UCD and also received a masters in economics (first class honours) from UCD. Tony has extensive professional involvement with the Irish and international public and private sectors. Prior to joining DCU, he worked in the Department of Finance, the National Economic and Social Council (NESC), Dublin Corporation, the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and the IDA. He has also undertaken a wide range of advisory and consultancy projects for the public sector, including the following: Review of Regional Airports for the Department of Transport; Advisor to Eastern Regional Health Authority on Mental Health Plan (2001); Policy Advisor on indigenous industry to Forfás (1999-2000) and Review of healthcare funding for the North Western Health Board (1995)

Biographical Details

luckat

I wonder how this 'Dublin economist' measured productivity. The whole thing seems a bit muzzy.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Somebody should have a word with the people in the Indo.

I think they should, and congratulate them yet again for highlighting the outrageous value the country is getting from the public service.
In a seperate newpaper last week ( not part of the Insdo group ) I read another article about how our public servants were so overpaid....it also gave the example of how the head of our central bank was the highest paid central banker in the world, and it gave his salary, compared to his counterparts in the US, UK, Germany, Japan etc. Its not just Nora the nurse and Gerry the Guard and Colm the civil servant who are overpaid compared with their comparables abroad.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

I think they should, and congratulate them yet again for highlighting the outrageous value the country is getting from the public service...

And truth and accuracy don't matter?

ionix5891

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And truth and accuracy don't matter?

do you have facts and figures that say otherwise?

P. Breathnach

ionix5891 wrote: »

do you have facts and figures that say otherwise?

Otherwise than what? I pointed out that the Indo has conflated the Civil Service and the Public Service. The simple fact is that they are not the same: the CS is a subset of the PS, representing about 10% of the entire sector.

ionix5891

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Otherwise than what? I pointed out that the Indo has conflated the Civil Service and the Public Service. The simple fact is that they are not the same: the CS is a subset of the PS, representing about 10% of the entire sector.

do their wages come from private enterprise or from the taxpayer ....

P. Breathnach

ionix5891 wrote: »

do their wages come from private enterprise or from the taxpayer ....

That's irrelevant to what I said.

It appears that you and jimmmy don't care about getting things right.

ionix5891

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's irrelevant to what I said.

It appears that you and jimmmy don't care about getting things right.

how is it irrelevant? i don't care what they are called, these people are being paid by taxpayer and the private sector

does the taxpayer not have the right to point out bloat and/or demand better value for money?