The "WTF do Newcastle do now?" thread.

loyatemu

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

There's also guys out of contract in the summer such as Danny Murphy ...

Murphy was player of the season at Fulham who came 7th - he's hardly going to move to a Championship team.

chopperbyrne

A7X wrote: »

Which would then be deemed a...

Big club? Not a chance. Leicester City won the league cup a few times under Martin O'Neil. Are they a big club?

Nottingham Forest won the European Cup, twice, in a row! Are they a big club?

spockety

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

I wonder who are all these supporters who claim Newcastle are not a big club.
Yes..they are ran like a pile of ****e but any club that gets 52,000 fans a week is a big club regardless whether they win or not.
Liverpool/Man U won ****all for years yet they were still called big clubs.
Spurs are called a big club..again not winning anything notable for years.
If Newcastle were managed properly and invested in good players not money grabbing players then they could go on to be a successful club but it requires patience from the fans/board etc.

In fact I reckon most of these are either a Liverpool or Spurs fan.
But definitely not a United or Arsenal fan as they don't come out with crap like that.

Er.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfc_story/honours/

Have a read. Liverpool have been winning trophies of all sorts of descriptions consistently for the last 30 years. It's been a long time since you could say Liverpool are not a big club because they haven't been winning things.

Blazer

spockety wrote: »

Er.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfc_story/honours/

Have a read. Liverpool have been winning trophies of all sorts of descriptions consistently for the last 30 years. It's been a long time since you could say Liverpool are not a big club because they haven't been winning things.

I bet MUFC equalling your league record kills you though :pac:
Plus the fact that Liverpool haven't won the league in how long?

just kidding..I'd obviously class Liverpool as a big AND a successful club.
But they seem to think they're the only club in England that's entitled to call themselves this.

Chucky the tree

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

I bet MUFC equalling your league record kills you though :pac:
Plus the fact that Liverpool haven't won the league in how long?

just kidding..I'd obviously class Liverpool as a big AND a successful club.
But they seem to think they're the only club in England that's entitled to call themselves this.

The big four are the only big clubs. Before relegation I'd throw Newcastle in with City, Spurs, Everton and Villa. Clubs with some good players and money to spend.

therecklessone

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

In fact I reckon most of these are either a Liverpool or Spurs fan.
But definitely not a United or Arsenal fan as they don't come out with crap like that.

O Rly?

jank wrote: »

Teams that win stuff....

Arsenal fan.

Highsider wrote: »

Like he said

Liverpool fan.

A7X wrote: »

Which would then be deemed a...

United fan.

I believe I'm the only Spurs fan to have posted on the thread, and this is my first post.

legs11

Everton have a bigger history and more success than Chelsea, until the sky 4 monolopy Everton were one of the most successful sides in England.

As for Newcastle, well they haven't been successful since jackie wilburn [sic] was playing with them, contrary to what their fans think.

thegen

Seaneh wrote: »

Don't think duff will stay just collect a wage cheque, he actually gives a **** about his career, he will leave if he gets a chance. Also, Newcastle will probably agree to pay him off like Leeds did with Fowler.

If Duff had of sh1t about his career he would have signed for Liverpool when leaving Chelski. That move was all about money. He is 28 or 9 nine now. He will be thinking of money and not his career now.

Mr. Incognito

Am I the only one that is delighted?

Newcastle fans are deluded. They're crap. The best they could ever do was finish as runner up.

Big Sam would have done a job but because they weren't challenging- chop.

Bring back King Kev- wait a minute- chop.

Shearer? Shearer? A man with ZERO management experience.

Down we go- entirely their own fault for their own stupidity.

If they had left Big Sam alone at Christmas they might be challenging in a few years when he has time to actually build a squad- no such thing as overnight sucess.

astrofool

thegen wrote: »

If Duff had of sh1t about his career he would have signed for Liverpool when leaving Chelski. That move was all about money. He is 28 or 9 nine now. He will be thinking of money and not his career now.

Why do people think Chelsea would have let that happen? The only player they (reluctantly) transferred to a rival was Gallas, and only when forced.

Boggles

thegen wrote: »

If Duff had of sh1t about his career he would have signed for Liverpool when leaving Chelski. That move was all about money. He is 28 or 9 nine now. He will be thinking of money and not his career now.

I know he snubbed Liverpool for Chelsea when he joined the Londoners, but I'm almost sure the Scouse didn't bid for him when he was leaving the Bridge and the only team that did was Spurs, who had a 7 million offer turned down, Newcastle eventually landing him for 9/10.

kinaldo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Am I the only one that is delighted?

Clearly not.

To all those revelling in the Premiership demise of Newcastle because of ''our fans'', I really hope that one day you experience what it is like.

Charlie

kinaldo wrote: »

Clearly not.

To all those revelling in the Premiership demise of Newcastle because of ''our fans'', I really hope that one day you experience what it is like.

Too true mate.

It's one thing to bask in your own team's glory, and gloat. But to take great pleasure in the demise of another's team, for no great reason, is a proper cnut's trick.

Seriously, for anyone who truly supports a football club, lives, breaths, and sweats it, I don't see how you'd wish relegation on another. Then again, it's hardly surprising that many of those who are stepping up for a pop, are those who have only ever known life in the cushy Big 4.

staker

Gotta commend Alan Shearer on his post match Sky interview,very dignified and subdued, and had the goodwill to "congratulate" those that stayed up.
Three times the interviewer tried to nail him as to whether he'd be staying on,this being within 30 minutes of the biggest disappointment in his short manageriaL career.
The fcukin gall of that Sky shower, he's hurtin,last thing he wants is that kind of harassment....

Jazzy

kinaldo wrote: »

To all those revelling in the Premiership demise of Newcastle because of ''our fans'', I really hope that one day you experience what it is like.

That_Guy

Jazzy wrote: »

The only expectations I have ever wished for Newcastle is to play decent football and have a well run club. I never expect us to challenge for trophies.

On another note... Duff has decided to stay with us for next season.

GrumPy

Man, still havn't really swallowed this news yet. Think when the league starts back up, I will get a shock.

That_Guy

GrumPy wrote: »

Man, still havn't really swallowed this news yet. Think when the league starts back up, I will get a shock.

I've dealt with it. As hard as it is to take it has happened. We've just got to have the belief from the get go that we can push for promotion. Every player has got to be in that mindset from the first game of the season to the last.

legs11

It was the most gutless performance ever and you do feel for the fans who made the trip

the last 20 mins they should have went hell for leather at villa but they couldnt give a flying fcuk and for that reason alone they deserve to go down

the players at newcastle are absolute shocking, id be hard pressed to name 1 which should be kept on.

id probably say the keeper if someone held a gun to my head, the rest are paper space

That_Guy

legs11 wrote: »

It was the most gutless performance ever and you do feel for the fans who made the trip

the last 20 mins they should have went hell for leather at villa but they couldnt give a flying fcuk and for that reason alone they deserve to go down

the players at newcastle are absolute shocking, id be hard pressed to name 1 which should be kept on.

id probably say the keeper if someone held a gun to my head, the rest are paper space

We've been like that all season mate. Spineless, gutless etc.

Duff btw has said he'd be there next season.

Jazzy

That_Guy wrote: »

The only expectations I have ever wished for Newcastle is to play decent football and have a well run club. I never expect us to challenge for trophies.

On another note... Duff has decided to stay with us for next season.

shouldnt have got rid of allardyce then. simple as that really. as unattractive as the style he plays is, it would have created a good base for future managers to work from. instead he was got rid of, keegan came back in, wasnt too bothered, and the mess of this season ensues.

the reason ppl are still "revelling in your demise" is because the club has been a joke now for the guts of 5 years. the fact that the players werent arsed and played with no desire or heart adds to this. owen, smith, butt, duff & martins all came from top top clubs before they went to the toon. they all obviously had high standards of how clubs are run, how players are treated and how the top flight works. but they go to newcastle and fart about for inflated wages. any club run like that deserves to go down. think about it. the majority of ppl would have rathered newcastle to go down other then Phil Brown and his Hull outfit, phil brown being a very unlikable character and hull having one of the worst 6 months run ins ever... but at least they tried.
ppl are revelling because for such a 'big club' with a lot of big players who get paid a small fortune a week they couldnt even be bothered. they couldnt be bothered for the 52,000 ppl that turn up week after week, they couldnt be bothered for all the international support they receive, they couldnt be bothered for the man that pays their wages. is that all the players? no, of course not.
blame mike ashley all you want, but the fans have to take their share of the blame too. forcing resignations and sackings, forcing keegan back (for all the good it did... ultimately it just upset things further), making st. james' an uncomfortable place for the home team to even play in and for rarely showing signs of humility until it was too late. the hero worship of a handful of individuals (keegan & shearer namely) seemed only to lead to great expectations all round and the entire cake was made of icing.

ashley does take the lions share of the blame i agree but ever since bobby robson left the toon has been in freefall. allardyce would have brought stability to the club if left alone but he was rejected in favour of a man who hadnt watched a game of football for 2 years. and look at the results of that

kinaldo

Jazzy wrote: »

shouldnt have got rid of allardyce then. simple as that really. as unattractive as the style he plays is, it would have created a good base for future managers to work from. instead he was got rid of, keegan came back in, wasnt too bothered

stopped reading after this

Jazzy

kinaldo wrote: »

stopped reading after this

why? do you think keegan walking out surprised anyone else?
the "2nd coming of the messiah" was always a circus since day 1. media hype and nonsense. anyone that was cynical enough to see through that knew better. he had lost his heart and passion long before he came back. imo, he lost it after he failed in the england hotseat

Charlie

Jazzy, it's post like yours, that give all non Newcatle fans a bad name, when it comes to forming constructive arguments against our club.

As much as people like to point out the deluded messiah loving Geordies, who think they'll win the league, they're are far more ill informed, know it all nigels, who fabricate ridiculous arguments, which are usually based on little to no fact.

Keegan wasn't 'bothered' didn't have the 'passion'. FFS man, at least when you're going to have a pop, don't make yourself look like a total fool, go for something like 'bottler', a tag that at least others will recognize.

Jazzy

he wears his heart on his sleeve and all that and is generally known as one of the most passionate men in the british game. thats true enough... but from the moment he got there you could see that passion leaking out of him. the way the club was being run, the fact he had no control over transfers (which affects trust and faith levels) and the circus that has surrounded newcastle for the past 4 years or so meant it was always going to go this way. it wasnt the same club he had success with and at the end he wasnt bothered with ashley and his sh1te and left.
and no newcastle fan saw that coming because?
and look where the club is now. you reap what you sow.
big sam (who im not a fan of) did fine with blackburn this season after that clown ince did his best to get relegated. bet ya wish he was there now... or is pride still blocking reality ?

That_Guy

Jazzy wrote: »

he wears his heart on his sleeve and all that and is generally known as one of the most passionate men in the british game. thats true enough... but from the moment he got there you could see that passion leaking out of him. the way the club was being run, the fact he had no control over transfers (which affects trust and faith levels) and the circus that has surrounded newcastle for the past 4 years or so meant it was always going to go this way. it wasnt the same club he had success with and at the end he wasnt bothered with ashley and his sh1te and left.
and no newcastle fan saw that coming because?
and look where the club is now. you reap what you sow.

The passion leaking out of Kevin Keegan??? This is a ridiculous point you're making. Why should Keegan have stayed around with all that backstabbing going on? He was told he'd have full control over transfers etc and he didn't. It was in breach of his contract. Why shouldn't he leave. He was undermined by Ashley and co.
Get your facts right before having a go.

big sam (who im not a fan of) did fine with blackburn this season after that clown ince did his best to get relegated. bet ya wish he was there now... or is pride still blocking reality ?

How would you know Allardyce would keep us up? This is a point not even worth arguing over.

And what's this about Ince wanting to get relegated..... Dear oh dear. Unless you're Paul Ince where are you getting your facts from?

Jazzy

That_Guy wrote: »

And what's this about Ince wanting to get relegated..... Dear oh dear. Unless you're Paul Ince where are you getting your facts from?

ah right. so its like that then

yes im saying paul ince wanted blackburn to get relegated......................................................

That_Guy

Jazzy wrote: »

ah right. so its like that then

yes im saying paul ince wanted blackburn to get relegated......................................................

Well you said it not me.

mcwhirter

legs11 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/gallery/2009/may/24/newcastleunited-premierleague?picture=347851052

good riddance tbh.

Can't eat my breakfast now eerrgh!

Mitch Connor

That_Guy wrote: »

Well you said it not me.

He did his best to get them relegated in the same way some people believe Ashley did his best to get Newcastle relegated, ie. they sucked at what they were supposed to be doing. THe poster wasn't saying Ince was trying to get the relegated, but that he was going about doing just that brilliantly. Wasn't that hard to work out.

leninbenjamin

That_Guy wrote: »

And what's this about Ince wanting to get relegated..... Dear oh dear. Unless you're Paul Ince where are you getting your facts from?

is English not your first language then?

Dubliner28

Jazzy wrote: »

ppl are revelling because for such a 'big club' with a lot of big players who get paid a small fortune a week they couldnt even be bothered.

Newcastle = Big Club WTF

They wont be back for a while IMO and I for one wont miss them

That_Guy

leninbenjamin wrote: »

is English not your first language then?

Coming from a poster who forgot to put a capital I at the start of this sentence.

Dubliner28 wrote: »

Newcastle = Big Club WTF

They wont be back for a while IMO and I for one wont miss them

How many times do we have to go back over this argument. Newcastle United are NOT a big club.
This whole "Newcastle are a big club" crap is written by tabloid journalists.
We are not a big club in any way nor do we claim to be.
We are only big in terms of our support and stadium.

Big clubs are like Manchester United who go out season after season winning trophies.

Newcastle are not a big club.

End of.

daftdave

That_Guy wrote: »

Coming from a poster who forgot to put a capital I at the start of this sentence.




How many times do we have to go back over this argument. Newcastle United are NOT a big club.
This whole "Newcastle are a big club" crap is written by tabloid journalists.
We are not a big club in any way nor do we claim to be.
We are only big in terms of our support and stadium.

Big clubs are like Manchester United who go out season after season winning trophies.

Newcastle are not a big club.

End of.

so are celtic and rangers big clubs because they win stuff every year and have big attendances , or any of the top teams in the smaller european leagues , they win stuff every year but are not considered a big club because they cant compete at the top level in europe , would you consider chelsea a big club ?

Jazzy

i think newcastle should be trying to get strachan tbh. he knows how to grind out results against hard playing teams and he knows how to win a league. hes got the experience and i certainly think hes got the personality and grit to sort out the dressing room as well as stand his ground with ashley. i dont really know about his transfer policies though but there is going to be more out then in at newcastle this season anyway.

daftdave

Jazzy wrote: »

i think newcastle should be trying to get strachan tbh. he knows how to grind out results against hard playing teams and he knows how to win a league. hes got the experience and i certainly think hes got the personality and grit to sort out the dressing room as well as stand his ground with ashley. i dont really know about his transfer policies though but there is going to be more out then in at newcastle this season anyway.

no way , newcastle need someone to galvanise the club , im not sure who , but not strachan.
you say he knows how to win a league , thats a 2 horse race league , if you win 3 old firm games in a season , you are looking at winning the league as they rarely drop points to the other teams.

im liking the sounds that shearer is making, he talks sense but its very hard to make a judgement on his managerial capabilities after 8 games with a team that is not his and past failings that he has had to inherit.

i dunno really , its a hard call.

daftdave

just read on the ic newcastle site that beye has pledged his future to nufc , he should be pretty good in the championship , good honest player imo.

Chucky the tree

If Ian dowie stay's with shearer I think they will do well.

Charlie

Habib is a legend, someone who knows what playing in the black and white is about.

He's one of the players I could count on one hand that I want the club to keep.

Nunu

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If Ian dowie stay's with shearer I think they will do well.

I don't know? I have mixed feelings about Dowies influence. I like the guy but I'm leaning towards the opinion that he's too much of a tactician, which was the last thing the players needed heading into a relegation run in.
To me they just looked confused in every game.

Then again being able to work with them for a full season in a league they can realisticaly win now should see him have a better influence.

Boggles

Are the players pledging their future to Newcastle taking voluntary pay cuts?

That_Guy

Boggles wrote: »

Are the players pledging their future to Newcastle taking voluntary pay cuts?

Unclear at this moment. I would have assumed so.

Chucky the tree

Nunu wrote: »

I don't know? I have mixed feelings about Dowies influence. I like the guy but I'm leaning towards the opinion that he's too much of a tactician, which was the last thing the players needed heading into a relegation run in.
To me they just looked confused in every game.

Then again being able to work with them for a full season in a league they can realisticaly win now should see him have a better influence.

Whatever about him in the premiership he knows a bit about the championship which should help shearer.

Aidric

Good, on the money article from today's Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6367739.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

Geordies need tough love not another hero

Matthew Syed

"Newcastle United needs to be filled with people who love this club”, Alan Shearer said on Sunday and in that one, endlessly banal, hopelessly misguided sentence the latest would-be Messiah laid his finger on everything that has gone wrong with Newcastle’s football club and why it would be madness for Mike Ashley to appoint the former centre forward as full-time manager.
This is a club that have had far too much love: the love of the fans, the love of their various managers, the love of other supporters who, until now, have been happy to rally behind Newcastle as their second team.
This is a club that have basked in an orgy of self-infatuation, living on myths, dreams, brown ale and anything else that could numb the senses to the catastrophe that has been ticking like a time-bomb all season.
And now they want to turn to a man who has an excess of love but who has no qualifications to lead the club out of the mire into which they have jumped, feet first, except an ironed shirt and an occasional turn of phrase. A man who ticks no boxes whatsoever except possession of a Geordie accent and a legendary status on Gallowgate that is so patently irrelevant to the club’s present predicament as to be almost laughable.
This club do not need love; they need to be stripped clean of all sentimentality. They need a man who feels nothing but contempt for the position Newcastle now find themselves in and who is prepared to ignore the mass of fans and their hare-brained schemes.
They need a man who can state the truths the supporters do not want to hear; who can perform reconstructive surgery on a team that have lost all semblance of unity and coherence; a man who is hard-headed, hard-nosed and has spent hardly any time on Tyneside and is thus untainted by the delirium.
They need a man with a proven track record of management; a man who can finesse an understandably panicky owner; above all they need a man with the deep and long experience capable of persuading the good players to stay (and, let’s be honest, there are not many of those), who can get rid of the dross without the whole thing descending into a fire sale, and who can go into an infinitely complex global marketplace, identify a new crop of talented youngsters and persuade them that Newcastle are not a busted flush, but a club that can ride high once again.
And the new manager needs to do this with a close eye on the rapidly deteriorating finances, a deep awareness of the long-term contractual implications of his manoeuvrings in the transfer market and with a nose for how his string of new signings will cope with the unique demands of the Coca-Cola Championship, a league that is different in style, pace, philosophy and tempo from the Barclays Premier League.
Shearer, it hardly needs stating, is qualified for none of these tasks and it is symptomatic of the delusional contagion in the North East that so many supporters think he is.
Perhaps the most darkly comic aspect of Shearer’s initial appointment was how often we heard the phrase “the mood on Tyneside has been transformed”, as if the fans might be able to emote an awful team out of the relegation zone; as if the level of intoxication inspired by the great man’s appointment was a good thing rather than a distraction from what was, even then, a formidable challenge; as if sentiment has any bearing on success and failure when a team are plummeting towards calamity like a man in a concrete overcoat.
I sat in that opening press conference, heard Shearer’s repeated protestations of devotion to “the football club” (as if we doubted that), watched the fans outside taking off their shoes in an apparent show of fealty to their new saviour, and then got the train home wondering if this tedious soap opera will ever end. First Kevin Keegan, then Shearer; give it a couple of seasons of failure in the Championship and they will doubtless turn to the ghost of Jackie Milburn for managerial redemption amid yet more scenes of jubilation outside St James’ Park, yet more dreams of a return to the glory days, yet more whimsy and surrealism.
For the record, Shearer’s tenure has been a failure in almost every possible way, bar his ability to deflect criticism from his own inadequacies during post-match press conferences. He managed a derisory one win in eight games, executed tactical shifts and machinations that made Claudio Ranieri, the Tinkerman, seem like a rock of stability, but, most damningly of all, the St James’ Park hero failed even to inspire the passion and resolve in the players in what was the whole point of the exercise.



In retrospect, Newcastle needed only a point from their last two games to retain Premier League status, but failed to manage even that; their meek, passive, antiheroic surrender in the final quarter of an hour away to Aston Villa symptomatic of a club that had expended all their reserves of emotional energy on irrelevant happenings off the pitch; a club that have, in truth, spent so long navel-gazing that they no longer had the wit or the wish to look to the fights — the real fights on the pitch — that needed so dearly to be won.
As Alan Hansen said on Match of the Day (which is where Shearer should have stayed, firmly on the couch) on Sunday: “Even then, in the last ten to 15 minutes there was nothing, absolutely nothing. You know their life depends upon this and yet we spent 15 to 20 minutes waiting for some sort of effort [which never came].”
Some will point to Keegan, who as a virginal manager brought Newcastle back into the top flight 16 years ago.
They will dare to believe that this sets some kind of precedent. That inexperience can be some sort of blessing in club management.


But what about Sir Bobby Charlton, who took Preston North End down from the old second division in his first season in charge? What about the dozens of other precedents that show that experience matters in football management just as it does in every other area of life?
The reality is that, lumbered with Shearer, things are likely to get a lot worse for Newcastle, a club that face a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reinvent themselves from top to bottom.
But has Ashley got the balls to ditch him, to make a decision based on the kind of hard corporate logic that has served him so well in amassing a fortune in the sports goods market? Would the fans even let him?
And with that last, rhetorical question we hit the bull’s-eye of Newcastle’s travails. Until the club have an owner who can ignore the myopic short-termism of the nation’s most capricious fans, there will be no bounce for Newcastle United. I am not saying that all supporters are burdened by overinflated expectations, but can it be seriously denied that Newcastle are weighed down by a critical mass of unrealism? That this is the underlying reason for the lack of a single major trophy in 40 years?
Shearer’s appointment would symbolise everything that is wrong at St James’ Park, past and present. Expect him to be unveiled by the end of the week.

Helix

i dont get precisely why people thought shearer could inspire some form of passion in a bunch of overpaid foreign mercenaries. if the team had a core of local lads then yes id understand it, but great player and all that shearer was... was he ever going to hold that much weight with a group of injury prone foreigners who likely only ever knew him as "the bloke who never really achieved anything"?

leninbenjamin

That_Guy wrote: »

Coming from a poster who forgot to put a capital I at the start of this sentence.

That's low. Note the capital and full stop )

That_Guy wrote: »

How many times do we have to go back over this argument. Newcastle United are NOT a big club.
This whole "Newcastle are a big club" crap is written by tabloid journalists.
We are not a big club in any way nor do we claim to be.
We are only big in terms of our support and stadium.

Big clubs are like Manchester United who go out season after season winning trophies.

Newcastle are not a big club.

End of.

It's both correct and incorrect in equal measure.

Yes they are a small club in respect that they haven't won much in their existence, and have done little to earn the reputation of one.

But at the same time they can equally be viewed as a big club, as they have the potential to draw on a fairly large city of support and are able to draw a crowd to St. James Park on a weekly basis that really only Arsenal, Man Utd and (if they had the stadium for it) Liverpool can on a consistent basis.

In a season where they were relegated, Newcastle drew an average attendence of 48750. That should give an indication of the latent potential of Newcastle. Newcastle as a club, whether rightly or wrongly, have a massive pool of resources they could draw on if they were managed properly.

anyway, i probably shouldn't have said anything on the matter.

Aidric wrote: »

Good, on the money article from today's Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6367739.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

Very good article, relatively unbiased and sums everything what's wrong with them in a nutshell.

Mac Masters