DEAP Renewables Requirement

tmdsurvey

Hello all,

I was onto SEI and Training Provider regarding using wood burning stoves to meet the renewables contribution requirement and they were very vaque to say the least. Someone might be able to help answer my query:

I have a client who doesnt want to entertain solar panels as a means of meeting the renewable contribution. However, they will go with a large wood burning stove. Is it is possible to use a large wood burning stove alone with sufficent kW output to meet the renewables requirement of 10kW/m2/annum?

If you select log buring stove in DEAP it does not request the kW output thus seems to make no differentiation between high or low output stoves. Can you put the information into the 'renewable energies' section instead, choose thermal energy and put in the calculated figures? as this would take account of the size and output of the stove?

The stoves I have seen give the rated output, i.e. X kW. Knowing this figure, how do I work out the kW/m2/annum figure, the Part L contribution, the delivered energy, the energy conversion factor and the Co2 Emission factors? This way, I can specify the kW rating they require by working the sums backwards.

Any help on this appreciated guys,

Thanks tmdsurvey

sydthebeat

tmdsurvey wrote: »

Hello all,

I was onto SEI and Training Provider regarding using wood burning stoves to meet the renewables contribution requirement and they were very vaque to say the least. Someone might be able to help answer my query:

I have a client who doesnt want to entertain solar panels as a means of meeting the renewable contribution. However, they will go with a large wood burning stove. Is it is possible to use a large wood burning stove alone with sufficent kW output to meet the renewables requirement of 10kW/m2/annum?

If you select log buring stove in DEAP it does not request the kW output thus seems to make no differentiation between high or low output stoves. Can you put the information into the 'renewable energies' section instead, choose thermal energy and put in the calculated figures? as this would take account of the size and output of the stove?

The stoves I have seen give the rated output, i.e. X kW. Knowing this figure, how do I work out the kW/m2/annum figure, the Part L contribution, the delivered energy, the energy conversion factor and the Co2 Emission factors? This way, I can specify the kW rating they require by working the sums backwards.

Any help on this appreciated guys,

Thanks tmdsurvey

The DEAP software calculates the 'renewable requirement' based on the per sq m basis.
When you choose 'wood log' or 'wood pellet' for your main space and water heating fuel, surely this must give you at least 10kwhr/m2/y......

what value are you getting for this?

tmdsurvey

Hi Syd,

The main space and water heating system is oil fired. The wood burner is secondary thus will only contribute towards the main oil system.

The floor area is 202 sqm. I can meet the renewables with 6sqm solar and a standard wood burner but the client wants to put in a large wood burning stove alone aiming to meet the requirement this way. Is there any way I can account for the high kW output of a larger stove?

topcatcbr

I think the problem here lies with the EPC Energy Performance Co-effecient. It is much harder to comply in a large dwelling. I have come accross this before and i find it nearly impossable to explain.

sydthebeat

tmdsurvey wrote: »

Hi Syd,

The main space and water heating system is oil fired. The wood burner is secondary thus will only contribute towards the main oil system.

The floor area is 202 sqm. I can meet the renewables with 6sqm solar and a standard wood burner but the client wants to put in a large wood burning stove alone aiming to meet the requirement this way. Is there any way I can account for the high kW output of a larger stove?

yes, use the wood stove as the main heat source and call up the oil burner as backup......

DEAP assumes secondary heating as 10% input to total heating... therefore it doesnt matter if its a 10 kw stove or a 50 kw stove.

As your client plans on using the oil burner as the main heating source, it only allows you make up 10% with your wood stove, and this may be much less that the 10kwhr/m2 renewable requirement.

There may be a possibility of reducing total energy demand to such levels that the 10kw/m2 meets the renewable requirement..... but your at very very low energy levels there....

tmdsurvey

Didnt think of that Syd. Tried it in DEAP and it blows the renewables requirement out of the water but can it be considered to be the main heating system in accordance with DEAP.

I would have thought from a practical point of view the oil would be primary as you can turn off the space heating to heat the water whereas the stove would not be independantly able to heat the water without having to heat the room(s).

The wood stove would have to be connected to the water system thus heating water and space and I would assume the oil would be the same. Obviously, the oil would be used for water heating during the summer as it can be separated from space heating. During the summer the stove would not be used at all as it heats space. Would this not mean oil as primary heating?

I looked at Appendix A regarding primary and secondary heating systems and its a bit here and there really. Can a wood stove be specified as a primary heating system? It could be used practically except during the summer when you would use oil to heat the water? Would this satisfy DEAP?

sydthebeat

tmdsurvey wrote: »

I would have thought from a practical point of view the oil would be primary as you can turn off the space heating to heat the water whereas the stove would not be independantly able to heat the water without having to heat the room(s)?

from DEAP:

The DEAP calculation is based on the characteristics of the dwelling and the systems installed and not on the heating practices of the occupying household.

The primary or main heating system is that which heats the largest proportion of dwelling...

A secondary heating system is to be specified if:
a) the main system is not sufficient in itself to heat the dwelling to the temperatures on which the DEAP is
based

To my reading, this leaves the option to use a stove as main heating while the oil burner is back-up or secondary. This is how my parents house is heated.

Once it can be shown that the stoves output has the ability to heat over 50% (the largest portion) of the dwelling, then it can be considered as the primary heating system... in my opinion...

topcatcbr

If the two systems are capable of heating the entire home then the system which has a greater level of automated control is taken as the primary system. AFAIK

I was wrong below is the extract

A2 Procedure for determining the heating systems (1) Identify the main heating system. If there is a central system that provides both space and water heating and it is capable of heating at least 30% of the dwelling, select that system as the main heating system. If there is no system that provides both space and water heating, then select the system that has the capability of heating the greatest part of the dwelling. (2) If there is still doubt about which system should be selected as the main system, select the system that supplies useful heat to the dwelling at lowest cost (obtained by dividing fuel cost from www.sei.ie/statistics by conversion efficiency).

tmdsurvey

Thanks Guys

Ive sent the query to SEI also to see what they think. Will post it here when they get back to me (if they get back to me)

taxman

tmd...

Did you come up with a way of using the stove as primary and relegating fossil boiler to secondary?