Potential price fixing - Dublin Budapest route

netwhizkid

I am currently researching flights as I am planning to take a trip to Budapest this July and came across a bizzare anomaly which I can equate to nothing more than price fixing.

On July 23rd the date I was thinking of as a potential departure date I got three quotes from Ryanair, Malev and Aer Lingus.

They are as follows:

Ryanair July 23rd €118.36 Dep. 16:00 + €5 Credit Card fee, €10 checked baggage charge and €5 online check in fee = €138.36

Malev July 23rd €138.60 Dep. 07:55 price includes 23KG baggage allowance and there is no check in or admin charge (what you see you pay) so €138.60

Aer Lingus July 23rd €118.71 Dep. 15:30 + €5 handling fee + €15 checked baggage charge so €138.71

So:

Ryanair €138.36
Malev €138.60
Aer Lingus €138.71

There is a 35c difference in price between the three and this stinks of price fixing between the three. Ryanair and Aer Lingus are joined at the hip thanks to the Privatisation (ala Eircom-esque stupidity) and Malev seeing the two decides to cash in also on this gravy train. €138 is a far too high fare for a one way flight to Europe especially when you have three operators supposed to be competing against each other in a cut throat market.

Some can argue that oh, but you don't have to take luggage, I am planning to take a one way flight to Budapest as the begining of my Eurotrip and wearing the same or maybe only two pairs of clothes for 10 days or two weeks in not viable. Not having checked luggage is only viable for two or three nights max.

Surely this is illegal and is there somewhere I can report it to? There is effectively a triopoly on the Dublin -Budapest route and the Government are to blame for allowing Ryanair to have any say in Aer Lingus' affairs. This is anti-competitive and is not market driven.

Any ideas on where I stand as a consumer here?

tony1kenobi

Sounds like a coincidence to me. You'd need to find quite a few more similar examples before it's anything else.

evolving_doors

I think they've all reached their optimum point ..
any less and its not worthwhile..
any more and you'll fly with the competition..
I cant see how the 3 companies would decide to get together to fix one flight!!

Besides a cartel does not necessarily have to agree on the same price to be price fixing!!
They might all make the exact same level of profit at different prices.. no!



Ryanair €138.36
Malev €138.60
Aer Lingus €138.71

Id definitely pay the extra 24 cent not to fly RY***IR:pac:

jhegarty

If any were cheaper then they would get more bookings. This would put thier price up.

Rinse and repeat until all fares are simular.

evolving_doors

jhegarty wrote: »

If any were cheaper then they would get more bookings. This would put thier price up.

Rinse and repeat until all fares are simular.

How could the price go up if they were cheaper????

Do you mean if they were cheaper then their Profit would go up??

snappieT

Armelodie wrote: »

How could the price go up if they were cheaper????

Do you mean if they were cheaper then their Profit would go up??

If they were cheaper, there would be a higher demand, higher than the number of seats they have available. They would increase the price appropriately to reduce the demand while filling the plane.

evolving_doors

netwhizkid wrote: »

€138 is a far too high fare for a one way flight to Europe especially when you have three operators supposed to be competing against each other in a cut throat market.

Any ideas on where I stand as a consumer here?

If you operated an Airline what price would you think was reasonable for a one way flight to Europe?????
Of course taking into account..
The price of :
1.Fuel
2.Wages
3.Taxes
4. The important one---Your competitors price!..

I think you need to understand that a conspiracy/cartel doesn't exist just because the prices are similar!!(Or the same even)..Due to the nature of competition, prices do move closer together sometimes.
Perhaps RyanAir could be operating at a loss on that route by matching their competitors price in the hope that they would deprive them of business and sweat them out of the market. Similar to Loss Leaders in supermarkets just to get people in the door. e.g. if Dunnes started selling cheap pharmacuticals or beer then the Chemists or Off Licences would go out of business.. Then their free to charge what they like after...

Bare in mind prices change every week/day/minute especially when it comes to flights.I dont think AerLingus/RyanAir and Malev get to gether every ten minutes and say "Right we better discuss the price to Budapest this time and we should all agree on a similar price"
It'd be a heeluva lot of meetings every day,,they'd probably have to set up a 'price fixing department' employing many many people..

I recommend you ring National Consumer Agency (consumerconnect.ie),
helpline:1890 432 432 or (01) 402 5555..

I'd be interested to know what they say..

Just as a matter of interest,,are the prices still the same?

evolving_doors

snappieT wrote: »

If they were cheaper, there would be a higher demand, higher than the number of seats they have available. They would increase the price appropriately to reduce the demand while filling the plane.

So why aren't they cheaper then? Maybe they missed that business lecture!
Maybe that's as cheap as they can go!!

Just for the sake of arguement..what do you think is a fair cheaper price? €1..€50.€100..€137

delllat

i think those prices are already very low ,budapest for 130 odd euro and your still complaining ?

maybe you should go to bray on the dart ,it costs about 4.00 euro ,3.80 by bus although theyre probably price fixing too

Sizzler

Shouldnt this be in The Conspiracy Theory forum instead

netwhizkid

I reported this to the National Consumer agency and was told that companies are allowed to charge as much as they want for a particular as the consumer is not obliged to purchase from x company. There is no price controls in place obviously. However as the three operators on this route are priced the same I as a consumer have no choice but to purchase from one of three if I want to fly direct from Dublin to Hungary. This they are looking into and it looks like I may be onto something.

delllat

netwhizkid wrote: »

I reported this to the National Consumer agency and was told that companies are allowed to charge as much as they want for a particular as the consumer is not obliged to purchase from x company. There is no price controls in place obviously. However as the three operators on this route are priced the same I as a consumer have no choice but to purchase from one of three if I want to fly direct from Dublin to Hungary. This they are looking into and it looks like I may be onto something.

you are still missing the point though,customer demand dictates the prices ,not price fixing

when a flight is announced say theres 100 seats

the first 20 may be 59.99
the next 20 may be at 79.99
the next 20 may be at 99.99
the next 20 may be at 119.99
the last 20 may be at 139.99

the airlines dont wanna fly an empty plane although if they wanted they could charge 500euro a seat for EVERY seat

thats their right ,if you dont like it use another another airline or \ boat

discombobulate

netwhizkid wrote: »

I am currently researching flights as I am planning to take a trip to Budapest this July and came across a bizzare anomaly which I can equate to nothing more than price fixing.

On July 23rd the date I was thinking of as a potential departure date I got three quotes from Ryanair, Malev and Aer Lingus.

They are as follows:

Ryanair July 23rd €118.36 Dep. 16:00 + €5 Credit Card fee, €10 checked baggage charge and €5 online check in fee = €138.36

Malev July 23rd €138.60 Dep. 07:55 price includes 23KG baggage allowance and there is no check in or admin charge (what you see you pay) so €138.60

Aer Lingus July 23rd €118.71 Dep. 15:30 + €5 handling fee + €15 checked baggage charge so €138.71

So:

Ryanair €138.36
Malev €138.60
Aer Lingus €138.71

There is a 35c difference in price between the three and this stinks of price fixing between the three. Ryanair and Aer Lingus are joined at the hip thanks to the Privatisation (ala Eircom-esque stupidity) and Malev seeing the two decides to cash in also on this gravy train. €138 is a far too high fare for a one way flight to Europe especially when you have three operators supposed to be competing against each other in a cut throat market.

Some can argue that oh, but you don't have to take luggage, I am planning to take a one way flight to Budapest as the begining of my Eurotrip and wearing the same or maybe only two pairs of clothes for 10 days or two weeks in not viable. Not having checked luggage is only viable for two or three nights max.

Surely this is illegal and is there somewhere I can report it to? There is effectively a triopoly on the Dublin -Budapest route and the Government are to blame for allowing Ryanair to have any say in Aer Lingus' affairs. This is anti-competitive and is not market driven.

Any ideas on where I stand as a consumer here?

DOn't see your point here at all. If they are price fixing it means their all after giving you a good price so shut up complaining. I'm paying nearly double that to Budapest from the 9th 13th of July!

A return train to cork costs 80 euro for fecks sake so deal with it. Its a good price!

penexpers

netwhizkid wrote: »

I reported this to the National Consumer agency and was told that companies are allowed to charge as much as they want for a particular as the consumer is not obliged to purchase from x company. There is no price controls in place obviously. However as the three operators on this route are priced the same I as a consumer have no choice but to purchase from one of three if I want to fly direct from Dublin to Hungary. This they are looking into and it looks like I may be onto something.

Incorrect. The flights on that day just happened to be roughly the same price. If you check other dates then there is some variation in the price. Can't believe you are wasting other people's time about this.

RATM

netwhizkid wrote: »

I reported this to the National Consumer agency and was told that companies are allowed to charge as much as they want for a particular as the consumer is not obliged to purchase from x company. There is no price controls in place obviously. However as the three operators on this route are priced the same I as a consumer have no choice but to purchase from one of three if I want to fly direct from Dublin to Hungary. This they are looking into and it looks like I may be onto something.

I flew to Budapest last July and it cost €122 in an Aer Lingus sale, which I considered to be a total bargain. You're just wasting the time of the National Consumer Agency on this one, there is only so low airlines can go on flights before its not worth their while.
Just because 3 airlines are within 50c of each other does not mean they are price fixing and if you knew anything about Ryanair's modus operandi you'd know that not to be the case.
Give it up.

evolving_doors

Netwhizkid,

Have you thought of going to a radio station or newspaper,,,maybe talk to Joe Duffy about your plight..I'm sure they'd be very interested in hearing about 3 different companies charging way,way over the odds for a flight,, and very suspiciously..Almost the same price...

Fight the power

darc

If all the prices were at €600, I'd be concerned about price fixing, but at €138 including taxes & charges that is a bloody cheap fare for the distance being travelled.

I think its more a case of competition forcing the prices down to current levels.


Looking at the full details, the fares being charged ARE different
Ryanair 79.99
Aer Lingus 85
Malev 104
Can't see any element of price fixing here!

snappieT

Armelodie wrote: »

Just for the sake of arguement..what do you think is a fair cheaper price? €1..€50.€100..€137

The fair price is the highest price the operator can charge while still filling their plane.

antoinolachtnai

In terms of airline economics, that is an awful lot of airlines to be operating on a route that at first face wouldn't seem like a major corridor.

Evaluating competition between airlines is a complicated business and you have to look at schedules as well as the fares.