New (Accord Type S 2.0 vtec OR Golf GTI OR Passat TDI)?

beams

Having swore blind that I'd never buy a new car, I'm giving in to the 3+ years of all-in warranties and a history-less dream.

Choices are;

• Honda Accord Type S 2.0 (not the newest model)
• VW Golf GTI Mk5
• VW Passat 1.9 TDI B6

Decision points should be tax, fuel, servicing, maintenance, new turbos , insurance... etc. i.e. short and long term costs.

The plans are to run this into the ground. I do about 20K miles/yr so looking into your crystal ball, which do you think will give the least hassle whilst seeing past 200K miles?

Sqaull20

2.2 diesel Accord would be the one for you, out of that list.

Look at the Impreza diesel too, only 20k, 4wd, 150bhp, boxer engine etc!!

http://www.subaru.ie/Subaru_ie/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M3M2

EPM

MK V GTi for 27k would be mighty tempting plus out of those there it'd be the best car. Would be the easier to sell afterwards too...

There'd be no hope of shifting that Accord in a few years and you'll have the world and it's mother slating the Passat and that engine here pretty soon:pac:

The Subaru suggested would be a great choice too - You caould get the mid spec model for that kinda money which is very well equipped and nice to drive

beams

Sqaull20 wrote: »

2.2 diesel Accord would be the one for you, out of that list.

Look at the Impreza diesel too, only 20k, 4wd, 150bhp, boxer engine etc!!

http://www.subaru.ie/Subaru_ie/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M3M2

not the nicest looking thing going... although the legacy looks pretty sweet and only a few bob in the difference. The boxer diesel seems to review really well, any experience here yourself?

beams

EPM wrote: »

MK V GTi for 27k would be mighty tempting plus out of those there it'd be the best car. Would be the easier to sell afterwards too...

There'd be no hope of shifting that Accord in a few years and you'll have the world and it's mother slating the Passat and that engine here pretty soon:pac:

The Subaru suggested would be a great choice too - You caould get the mid spec model for that kinda money which is very well equipped and nice to drive

after spending heaps of cash trading up over the years, I really want to run this thing till she runs no more so trading down the line is not a concern although point well noted... i'm also thinking that turbo's tend to go around 80K which is a fair wod of cash to sort where i'm thinking the straight petrol vtec should be bullet proof so bar servicing and the odd timing belt there should be nothing major.

Stephen

But 20k miles a year is a lot of petrol! Especially considering the current difference in price between petrol and diesel.

Biro

beams wrote: »

Having swore blind that I'd never buy a new car, I'm giving in to the 3+ years of all-in warranties and a history-less dream.

Choices are;

• Honda Accord Type S 2.0 (not the newest model)
• VW Golf GTI Mk5
• VW Passat 1.9 TDI B6

Decision points should be tax, fuel, servicing, maintenance, new turbos , insurance... etc. i.e. short and long term costs.

The plans are to run this into the ground. I do about 20K miles/yr so looking into your crystal ball, which do you think will give the least hassle whilst seeing past 200K miles?

The least hassel without a doubt will be the Honda. Not being a turbo has added reliability benefit.

beams

Stephen wrote: »

But 20k miles a year is a lot of petrol! Especially considering the current difference in price between petrol and diesel.

true, about 1500 notes in the difference

Anan1

I'd be looking at the Legacy diesel myself. I think a Japanese car is far more likely to see 300,000kms without serious incident, and the fuel & tax savings from diesel will add up.

beams

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd be looking at the Legacy diesel myself. I think a Japanese car is far more likely to see 300,000kms without serious incident, and the fuel & tax savings from diesel will add up.

is there any idea on how reliable the boxer diesels are? brand new engine design and only a year under their belt = risky?

TomMc

Well you would get a new car warranty from new ( 3 years?) and the diesel engine wasn't rushed in design terms. They spent years to make sure it was right first time out. Nothing is certain, but you can trust the Japs far more than Europeans.

http://www.subaru.ie/Subaru_ie/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M3M4 - They have a special on the Legacy at the moment by the looks of things.

JHMEG

Diesel engines have been around for 100 years. With a boxer it's only the layout of the cylinders that's different.

HashSlinging

beams wrote: »

after spending heaps of cash trading up over the years, I really want to run this thing till she runs no more so trading down the line is not a concern although point well noted... i'm also thinking that turbo's tend to go around 80K which is a fair wod of cash to sort where i'm thinking the straight petrol vtec should be bullet proof so bar servicing and the odd timing belt there should be nothing major.

Thats not true with regards to most modern diesels, the turbos should last the lifetime of the car. Plenty of reliable 98 passats on the road pushing big mileage. Of course there is a risk to owning any car. You could have issues with the vtec also, had the head gasket go on my own a couple of years ago, but honda say they have never had one vtec back... they are thirsty and will only do about 25 - 28 mpg, fantastic car though.

What about a one year old 318d

Or a two year old one.

beams

TomMc wrote: »

Well you would get a new car warranty from new ( 3 years?) and the diesel engine wasn't rushed in design terms. They spent years to make sure it was right first time out. Nothing is certain, but you can trust the Japs far more than Europeans.

http://www.subaru.ie/Subaru_ie/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M3M4 - They have a special on the Legacy at the moment by the looks of things.

it comes with a 3 year/160000km warranty so that seems pretty good.

That special offer doesn't seem to be reflected in the subaru dealerships at the moment... maybe they haven't heard yet :rolleyes:

beams

JHMEG wrote: »

Diesel engines have been around for 100 years. With a boxer it's only the layout of the cylinders that's different.

there's also a novel composite of iron/aluminium in the block and a lot of other innovative extras according to http://www.boxerdiesel.com/...

beams

HashSlinging wrote: »

Thats not true with regards to most modern diesels, the turbos should last the lifetime of the car. Plenty of reliable 98 passats on the road pushing big mileage. Of course there is a risk to owning any car. You could have issues with the vtec also, had the head gasket go on my own a couple of years ago, but honda say they have never had one vtec back... they are thirsty and will only do about 25 - 28 mpg, fantastic car though.

What about a one year old 318d

Or a two year old one.

i have a 530D at the moment but I would never buy another BMW again. A previous 525 i had lost engine compression at 65K miles (scrapped it) and my bro's 740 needs a small block rebuild... they're comfy and flash but you need deep pockets to keep them on the road.

EPM

I came close to buying an Impreza diesel at the start of the year, it's a cracking engine - seriously smooth. In the bigger legacy it would probably offer more comfort and be less of a sacrifice in terms of that compared to a 530d

beams

EPM wrote: »

I came close to buying an Impreza diesel at the start of the year, it's a cracking engine - seriously smooth. In the bigger legacy it would probably offer more comfort and be less of a sacrifice in terms of that compared to a 530d

Was the recession that stopped you ?

emurphy

having had a few vw's they can be a hassle eg passat has regulator problems can have electric problems ie has water leaks can get into the ecu, turbo problems can be a problem, that said if you buy a diesel the engine will go forever. Its the niggely problems that get me pissed off to be fair but if you can deal with them great car to drive.
Jap cars I have driven ie toyota and nissan I have hated the way they drive in comparison to VW but that said they generally are very reliable cause no messin.

Hard choice to make I think I'll probably go jap next myself to save on hassle that said I said that after my last VW as well but they just drive so much nicer.

JHMEG

beams wrote: »

there's also a novel composite of iron/aluminium in the block and a lot of other innovative extras according to http://www.boxerdiesel.com/...

I wouldn't worry about that. Metallurigal changes aside a lot of the innovations are really only new to diesel engines, like the semi closed head etc. They've been around a while in petrol engines, esp from Subaru.

How come the Accord 2.2 diesel isn't on your list? As diesel engines go it's quite refined (if you could call a diesel engine refined) and is quite powerful in its limited (diesel) power band. If I were to go for an Type-S I'd go for the original 2.4, and not the Irish 2.0.

Graham_B18C

I dunno if its just me but I think the interior of the Legacy looks brutal, all plastics. The Accord is far nicer IMO.

If I had 30k to spend on a car I'd get this over a Legacy no question

colm_mcm

beams wrote: »

Having swore blind that I'd never buy a new car, I'm giving in to the 3+ years of all-in warranties and a history-less dream.

The 3 year warranty on the Volkswagens only covers paint. all the important bits are covered by a 2 year warranty

TomMc

Grahamo999 wrote: »

I dunno if its just me but I think the interior of the Legacy looks brutal, all plastics. The Accord is far nicer IMO.

If I had 30k to spend on a car I'd get this over a Legacy no question

The Legacy interior is actually quite good in terms of the overall layout of everything and the plastics are fairly good as well. They are not real shiny, nor do they feel cheap or flimsy like a lot of Japanese cars. This area has been improved in the most recent model, but I guess you would have to sit in the car in person, not just go on photos. And you can also get a leather interior if you really want, which would upgrade things that bit more. The cream one in the Honda just gives it more of an upmarket feel. To write off a car based on its interior when it is arguably superior in every other area is a little silly. The current and most recent Accord's core target market is middle-aged men or junior executives/sales reps etc (stuffed shirts and conservative types), and that is how it drives. Spirited drivers look elsewhere.

beams

JHMEG wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about that. Metallurigal changes aside a lot of the innovations are really only new to diesel engines, like the semi closed head etc. They've been around a while in petrol engines, esp from Subaru.

How come the Accord 2.2 diesel isn't on your list? As diesel engines go it's quite refined (if you could call a diesel engine refined) and is quite powerful in its limited (diesel) power band. If I were to go for an Type-S I'd go for the original 2.4, and not the Irish 2.0.

the accord diesel is just outside the price range at around 34k...

Zube

TomMc wrote: »

To write off a car based on its interior when it is arguably superior in every other area is a little silly.

The OP is going to be sitting in that interior for the next 10 years! He should certainly not pick one he hates already.

Berty

It you are discounting a Golf because of the GTi being a petrol then buy the NEW GTD

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/20/uk-mk-vi-golf-gtd-pricing-announced-quick-clean-fun-starts-at/

EPM

beams wrote: »

Was the recession that stopped you ?

Even though I should cop on because of it the reason I didnt was the cost to change was huge, much more than similar priced new cars at the time (by a couple of k) with no movement on price.

Gets the power down really well too:D

TomMc

Zube wrote: »

The OP is going to be sitting in that interior for the next 10 years! He should certainly not pick one he hates already.

Original OP didn't mention anything about interiors. And you might just find that what looks good and what wears well over 10 years are not the same.

And from the photo below, to say it is an unpleasant driving environment doesn't make sense, but then there is no accounting for taste with some people.

http://www.subaru.ie/Subaru_ie/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M3M4M2

beams

test drove the legacy boxer sports tourer model today and was very impressed. Great handling, well kitted out as standard and to be honest, not too shabby on the interior styling either. I really liked it.

Although the engine rattles quick a bit when started, as soon as you pull away it's very quite. 5 gears on a new diesel seems a bit old fashioned but they are very long gears... around town you'd rarely see 3rd. Although i didn't get a chance, I'd say overtaking is a doddle with this thing, loads of get up...

An Irish guy does a good review at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFseQDPTqVQ if your interested.

I'm tipping towards the boxer legacy now....

pburns

beams wrote: »

test drove the legacy boxer sports tourer model today and was very impressed. Great handling, well kitted out as standard and to be honest, not too shabby on the interior styling either. I really liked it.

Although the engine rattles quick a bit when started, as soon as you pull away it's very quite. 5 gears on a new diesel seems a bit old fashioned but they are very long gears... around town you'd rarely see 3rd. Although i didn't get a chance, I'd say overtaking is a doddle with this thing, loads of get up...

An Irish guy does a good review at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFseQDPTqVQ if your interested.

I'm tipping towards the boxer legacy now....

I have one since almost a year.

Yes, overtaking is a doddle with mid-range punch and AWD stability. After 15,000km I was beginning to think maybe this was overkill and unnecessary until I drove a few FWDs again and was re-introduced to the concept of understeer;) Coming from a RWD BMW the Legacy will haver similar driving characteristics but with more grip.

The interior? Well the centre console display can be pretty much invisable when strong sun is shining in from curtain angles and the interior isn't proto-Teutonic but it's really not that bad. Some people on here seem to have a fetish for VAG-type interior plastics. Depends on what your priorities are.

I had the same concerns about the engine being a new design but bit the bullet. So far, so good. The engine management system does have some strange characteristics at idle after a run but it's no big deal. I'd wager there is no smoother diesel engine (and few petrol) out there with 4 cylinders.

That's a great price. mine was over 30 grand by the time delivery charges etc. added.

I'm sure you're aware it is soon-to-be-replaced?

beams

pburns wrote: »

I have one since almost a year.

Yes, overtaking is a doddle with mid-range punch and AWD stability. After 15,000km I was beginning to think maybe this was overkill and unnecessary until I drove a few FWDs again and was re-introduced to the concept of understeer;) Coming from a RWD BMW the Legacy will haver similar driving characteristics but with more grip.

The interior? Well the centre console display can be pretty much invisable when strong sun is shining in from curtain angles and the interior isn't proto-Teutonic but it's really not that bad. Some people on here seem to have a fetish for VAG-type interior plastics. Depends on what your priorities are.

I had the same concerns about the engine being a new design but bit the bullet. So far, so good. The engine management system does have some strange characteristics at idle after a run but it's no big deal. I'd wager there is no smoother diesel engine (and few petrol) out there with 4 cylinders.

That's a great price. mine was over 30 grand by the time delivery charges etc. added.

I'm sure you're aware it is soon-to-be-replaced?

soon-to-be-replaced??? engine or styling? There's rumours of a six-speed on the way but haven't found much else apart from concept cars

Hornswoggle

beams wrote: »

soon-to-be-replaced??? engine or styling? There's rumours of a six-speed on the way but haven't found much else apart from concept cars

New Legacy is fugly if you ask me, much prefer the current model.

http://www.cbg.ie/NewCars/Articles.aspx?articleid=777#

HashSlinging

What are they doing to their car design, it looks like the insignia..

Graham_B18C

TomMc wrote: »

Original OP didn't mention anything about interiors. And you might just find that what looks good and what wears well over 10 years are not the same.

And from the photo below, to say it is an unpleasant driving environment doesn't make sense, but then there is no accounting for taste with some people.

http://www.subaru.ie/Subaru_ie/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M3M4M2

When I saw you put up a link I thought it was going to be a high spec dash, maybe a bit of brushed chrome...but its still plastic and I don't think it looks good. It's just a personal opinion

cnocbui

HashSlinging wrote: »

honda say they have never had one vtec back... they are thirsty and will only do about 25 - 28 mpg, fantastic car though.

My Civic Type-R consistently gets 30-33 mpg.

beams

I narrowed the selection down to two, New Avensis D4D and Legacy Diesel Saloon... Although the new avensis does look sweet, very lexus IS220, the drive was lifeless and its engine was very noisy.

I went and ordered me a Legacy, due in next week and I can't wait... I want it nowwwww

lafors

beams wrote: »

I narrowed the selection down to two, New Avensis D4D and Legacy Diesel Saloon... Although the new avensis does look sweet, very lexus IS220, the drive was lifeless and its engine was very noisy.

I went and ordered me a Legacy, due in next week and I can't wait... I want it nowwwww

Sweet, Congrats
Did you get the "sale" price?
You'll have to do a review for us when you get it

AWD

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd be looking at the Legacy diesel myself. I think a Japanese car is far more likely to see 300,000kms without serious incident, and the fuel & tax savings from diesel will add up.

What did you think of it? I had it out for a test drive....I enjoyed it so much , I went out again for another 30 minutes. The lack of Diesel option has kept me away from Subaru
over the years. Not anymore !. A Pal with whom I worked years back had the previous version from new. I can remember him saying that you couldn/t kill it.. after years of abuse
(lack of maintenance, etc) everything still worked. Had my share of Euro Cars... IMHO... I think up pay over the odds for what you get as a total package. One Premium Brand (not saying which) I had from new cost me in in excess of 4G to repair most of which was in year 2/3 of it life. It was a heap of C#$%. I will be buying this Car once I can figure out how much margin the dealer has on this car, so a not to get screwed too much.

AWD

lafors wrote: »

Sweet, Congrats
Did you get the "sale" price?
You'll have to do a review for us when you get it

Nice one....
Congrats...Did You get the Limited Edition Version? Got cool Alloys and a nicer Front Grill
(IMHO) as well as the up spec Momo Wheel

beams

lafors wrote: »

Sweet, Congrats
Did you get the "sale" price?
You'll have to do a review for us when you get it

I did get the "sale" price which they then kindly deducted from the value of the car I traded in... it's all relative

Guy:Incognito

Havnt read through the thread , just saw the title. Mate of mine emailed me during the week(He works for Honda). Honda are selling 09 demo Accord 2.0Type S's for €21,450. One has just under 11,000km and the other 14,500km.

Just popped into my head when I saw the accord in the title.

Dont know why he sent me the list, he knows I havent got the proverbial pot to piss in.:)

beams

AWD wrote: »

Nice one....
Congrats...Did You get the Limited Edition Version? Got cool Alloys and a nicer Front Grill
(IMHO) as well as the up spec Momo Wheel

That's what I ordered and that's what I expect... but apparently the "special" offer cars are already in the country and by the sounds of it there are S and Limited models in the mix (if the different grill is the main indicator).

beams

Stekelly wrote: »

Havnt read through the thread , just saw the title. Mate of mine emailed me during the week(He works for Honda). Honda are selling 09 demo Accord 2.0Type S's for €21,450. One has just under 11,000km and the other 14,500km.

Just popped into my head when I saw the accord.

Dont know why he sent me the list, he knows I havent got the proverbial pot to piss in.:)

Thanks for the heads up. Decided against the petrol in the end and the Honda diesel is still mad money with a 2nd hand one coming in the same as the legacy new. I think the honda diesel is also 450+ yoyos to tax..

AWD

beams wrote: »

That's what I ordered and that's what I expect... but apparently the "special" offer cars are already in the country and by the sounds of it there are S and Limited models in the mix (if the different grill is the main indicator).

Well when I contacted Subaru Ireland just last week, there was loads of them.... sometimes they say 'limited number' to stirr up a wave of interest, .... hmmm, I guess it worked. The ltd is the one to have ! Enjoy

Biro

beams wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up. Decided against the petrol in the end and the Honda diesel is still mad money with a 2nd hand one coming in the same as the legacy new. I think the honda diesel is also 450+ yoyos to tax..

Nope, €303.

JHMEG

beams wrote: »

the Honda diesel is still mad money with a 2nd hand one

A mate just picked up a 2004 with leather and satnav in the UK for £4,000. I thought that was a good price.

beams

...to wrap up the thread...

I got my Subaru Legacy Boxer Diesel from the dealers yesterday. It's diamond grey, ltd model (sporty grill, momo steering wheel, etc) and I'm a very happy camper. I'll give it a couple of weeks driving then I'll stick up a review if anybody is interested...

Cheers,
D

---
viva legacy revolution...;)

Biro

beams wrote: »

...to wrap up the thread...

I got my Subaru Legacy Boxer Diesel from the dealers yesterday. It's diamond grey, ltd model (sporty grill, momo steering wheel, etc) and I'm a very happy camper. I'll give it a couple of weeks driving then I'll stick up a review if anybody is interested...

Cheers,
D

---
viva legacy revolution...;)

Best of luck with it.

pburns

Yeah, good luck with it and welcome to the club. I'm v happy with mine. Only problem was a cabin rattle that disappeared (touch wood) a couple of months ago.

Biggest problem will be replacing it as dson't like what i've seen so far of new Leggie. Maybe with a decent spec it'll look OK.

Post or PM if you need to ask anything...

Anan1

Well wear!

whiterebel

Good luck with the new motor.

Can anyone confirm what the service intervals are on the diesel Subarus? A mate of mine told me, and I think he has to be joking or just wrong.....